I realize that this is a loaded question but I'll leave it at that for now. Why do you study and/or practice martial arts??? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
By the way, I was pretty surprised that the last post in here was days ago!!! Is this not as popular as expected?
Well then you should post more Brad [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
I started training because
1. I was interested in East Asian cultures/philosophy/history.
2. Had frequent trouble with rednecks where I grew up so thought I'd like to whoop dey ass with style [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
I continue to train because I'm still interested in learning more & improving myself, it's great exercise, and to be confident that I could whoop an ass if I need to.
My problem is, I'm not interested in whoopin' anybody's ass... unless I NEED to (most people have GUNS anyway!) but I've rarely ever needed to. I do like the physical nature of it mixed with the skills required; in other words, it seems to be an attractive mix of physical demands, skill and the discipline to combine these effectively.
Also, I have access to a good teacher. If the teacher was expert in weightlifting or gymnastics or some other exercise-related activity, then I'd take that but I'm just thinking I shouldn't pass up the opportunity to train with a high level instructor.
Well, the point is you'll have the skill & confidence so that you won't have to whoop ass.
Since I began training in earnest I've never had to.
Confidence does indeed prevent aggression in many cases.
Observe some classes & talk with the teacher, and if it looks good go for it! Make sure what they teach gels with what your goals are, and also try to get a feel for the class environment - if the students are relaxed or testosterone-laden. It makes a big difference in if you'll enjoy training or not.
Brad, I'd also venture to say that all things being equal, the average trainee (not someone specifically looking to seriously compete, for instance) should perhaps select a school that is part of a larger family/system, and which seems to have some accountability, meaning that the instructors have their superiors. Also, their testing/certification should/would come from some larger recognized entity. I know convenience is a big factor in people selecting schools. However, I'd be intentional to look at perhaps three places for sure, and get a sense of comparison/differences.
Regarding why study:
It was always just something I was interested in. Perhaps when I was younger, I had some sense that if I ever became proficient in a martial art, people would admire me/that, and I'd feel good about knowing that stuff. I never had a strong ense of needing to defend myself, nor of competing. I suppose back then self confidence and self image were the main motivators (but I never really pursued studying, just a bit of dabbling and dropping out). I was simply intersted in that cool martial art stuff, and in eastern philosphy and such. The martial arts were still rather unique and unknown back in the 1970s (for that matter, they still are).
When I actually stated serious study, I was already 33 (and ,Brad, I have a 59 yr old student, as well as a couple of 50-ishers. They are amazed at the progress they've made). At that point, my pursuit was perhaps more related to just studying something I had always been interested in, and learning some neat stuff.
I found a website yesterday that had a great summary of reasons to study MA's... I wish I had posted it. I do remember that it listed a number of reasons that included discipline (which I could certainly improve on!), awareness, patience (another one I need more of), exercise (which was my first interest in it)... and, like I said, integrating these things with the help of a quality instructor would be all benefit with minimal costs, as far as I can tell.
Those are good points. I'm not sure how many of those I was fully aware of when I started. However, the internal development, the development of characteristics related to character, are certainly benefits. In fact, I'd venture to say they are the main benefits for most people, along with fitness. The self-defense becomes secondary.
One thought along those lines is that, unless someone wants pain, punishment and/or humiliation, a good school, IMO, would treat people with respect and encouragement. I don't mean all touchy-feely; I yell at people, reprimand/punish, and push them past the limits they think they have. But I do so with respect, encouragment and caring, which I know comes through; people tell me so, so it must be true! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
Learn to fight better. I dont like hurting people, but if I need to defend myself/friends/family I want to be able to do so well.
Flexibility, always been a week point of mine.
Endurance, not the run 20 minutes kind, but more the 'toughness' thats required to do something hard but keep doing it.
Fun, much as I dont like hurting people, I do like actually fighting. Used to do some boxing and loved it, Marshal arts was the same. Get to fight without (usually) doing anyone much damage.
I used to study TKD (ITF), and stopped because I felt that I was forced by my mother to start it and get to black belt. I got to first degree, but then stopped because so many years of going because of mom, made want to stop. I tried an assossiation of some sort but did not like it. I don't think I will get into TKD for a while.
I learn martial arts since i was very young (around 8 yo). The reason was only because i fell in love with the movement the first time i saw it. So, just for that simple reason, i started learning them. I've learned Karate for 3 years on my Junior High, Taekwondo for 3 years on my Senior High, & Jeet Kune Do during college in San Diego. I've also learned Muay Thai & Capoeira from friends, but i totally sucked with Capoeira.
My answers to Chris C's questions from a different post:
Why did you used to study the martial arts?
I studied Haikko-Ryu Ju-Jit-Su in my mid-later twenties. I originally got into because a friend of mine was doing it, then just ended up really enjoying it. The two of us also practiced Tai Chi/Dim Mak fighting applications from Earl Montigue tapes and various stick fighting techniques (also from tapes and seminars). I later took TKD, but mainly for the exercise and to improve kicking/striking skill.
Why did you stop?
For various personal reasons, I stopped training the other arts, but stuck with TKD. EXTREME pain in my right knee and hip (later to be diagnosed as osteoarthritis in my hip) made me stop that as well. (When the pivot to kick hurts YOU more than the person you're kicking, it's time to wrap it up).
What might get you back into it? Due to the unpredictability of the pain, it's hard to remain consistent. I would LOVE to get into some more grappling, ju-jit-su, or even Tai Chi, but money is a MAJOR object.
I'd start martial arts to stop Chris Correia from twisting my arm to come answer his questions! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
But well for martial arts.. there are many reasons to start (alot of them I don't know about..)
but what fasinates me, and why I would suggest someone to get into them.. is the same as for fencing.. the game.. the bouts with oponents.. the evaluating an opponent.. the mind game that goes into a "fight".. where you get your opponent to attack when YOU want him to attack.. or you really feel you have a control over him.. OR you feel that HE has a control of you and you have to get on top of his mind again.. or where you find his weakness..
for example.. what's the first thing you do when you find that an opponent (of your level) has a weekness? well what I do.. is pretend I didn't notice.. chances are he realized at the same time that you did that he made a mistake.. and the first thing you have to do is make him think you didn't notice..
sort of like a game of chess.. or like a team sport but where you are the attacker and the defence and the coach at the same time..
I study martial Arts (TKD)
1. For my daughters self confidence
2. help keep my ftness level up during the winter
3. I love/need to harness the power into proper technique and the discipline doesn't hurt.
4. its free...no really it is
I was interested in Japan back then, Ninja's were cool and I wanted in. So when a martial art became available I signed up!
Judo was pretty brutal being all throws and holds and not what I initially expected. I was out of shape and fat so I quit pretty quickly.
Would I ever take it up again? yes I have considered learning something but I don't really have the time. I don't own a car and so am at the mercy of the bus and I do not live close to the city.
Styles I would be interested in? Judo, Kendo, possibly something with striking, but I haven't looked into it enough to name a particular style I would be interested in.
Reasons?
Fitness: more workouts, more focus.
Mental: more focus, better mind body connection
Martial arts are still hold a somewhat mystical fascination for me.
Marykaa - very interesting. I feel the same way about sparring. It's truly a chess match, be it striking, grappling etc...
Of course sparring is to work techniques and conditioning, but the lessons of strategy have always been something that attracts me. Each opponent has a different style that one must adapt to - much as in business, or any other personal relation for that matter.
This aspect of MA really does apply to our daily life.
I've never like team sports much but have always liked the aspect of individual effort MA provides.
Of course sparring is to work techniques and conditioning, but the lessons of strategy have always been something that attracts me. Each opponent has a different style that one must adapt to - much as in business, or any other personal relation for that matter.
I had to think some before answering that one.. I think that in fencing it is the opposite.. we practice technique and do fitness to be able to apply the stratagies we want to in bouts. Or maby it changes.. beginers do bouts to practice their technique.. and integrate it into bouts.. but definately at an advaced stage.. the strategies and bouts override technique.. which must be already solidly aquired.
As to all of that applying to realationships. definately I agree for business relastionships.. Personal.. I'm not sure.. I mean.. there is so much manipulation of the oponent in fencing.. I rather think of personal realtionships as being on the same team.. and adapting to teammates.. is not at all the same as adapting to an opponent.. where all you want to do is win.
on a lighter note.. about how we act with people compared to bouts.. (not sure I can explain but it was quite funny)
fencers are well know for "discussing" what happened in a bout.. who had the right of attack (in foil or saber) who initiatited the attack.. was there a hesitation.. was the paré suffisiant etc. It affects how the rules are applied and who gets the point. but sometimes.. the 2 opponents just don't "feel" the action that happened the same way. and the discussions are endless...
(you also have to understand here that in french.. we do not tell people to "fence" we tell them to "fight" )..
anyways.. I'm teahing a groupe of 12-13 year olds.. we're in a large gym.. they have a 30 minute period to do bouts. I go around from one pair of fencers to the next, coaching, etc.
I'm with 2 guys when I notice that one of the "pairs" of fencers are talking, and not fencing.. that's ok.. it's good to discuss things.. but.. they continue for so long.. that I shout over to them "Hé.. Yves et Jean.. arretez de discuter et battez vous!" :
"hey Yves and Jean.. stop argueing and fight!"
LOL.. and just as I say it.. I realized how it sounds LOL.. (they just started fencing in didn't notice..) but you imagine? a Teacher saying to two 13 year olds.. "don't discuss your problem.. fight!" ?
You know, that actually sounds like my jr & high school [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] (small town in a rural area)
Ah the good old days when things were decided with an old fashioned throw down. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
As for what I said about personal relations - yeah I didn't mean applying combative strategies for dealing with a loved one. hmm, unless it's a tough love deal [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] But rather as to being able to adapt to the personality of another.
If one can't adapt to an opponent in sparring - then you will likely lose. We'll lose out on potentially good stuff if we refuse to accept another's point of view in life.
Here ends today's sermon [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
Along the lines of the bigger topic, it is interesting to consider any carry over from fighting to life/business. All kinds of business people have read The Art of War the the Book of Five Rings. Then they go about doing all kinds of weird things, believing they are being shrewd or clever. Frankly, I think that unless one is an experiened fighter/martial artist and familiar with eastern thinking a bit, a lot would get missed in understanding those works.
I think the carry over from MA to life/business can be large, or it can forced. It depends.
KURI Maybe it's just a vocabulary difference.. I would not say "adapt" but "understand" ... "Understand and take advantage of.." in the case of a fight "Understand and have empathy.." in the case of a relationship.. for me.. adapting to someone is quite different.. but I understand what you mean [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
CHRIS "shut and train" yup.. that's about it LOL. though I must say, that when I got to them in my rounds of coaching.. first think I asked was "OK.. so what as all the fuss about?".. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
French : It's the international official language of fencing. En garde, êtes vous prêts?, Allez!" everywhere I went.. from Istamboul to Goeborg.. oups.. I heard "en guard, Are you ready, Fence!" in NY lol.. such independant Americans [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Quote:
I think the carry over from MA to life/business can be large, or it can forced. It depends
I totally agree.. misunderstanding and interpreting wrongly is very widespread.. in MA.. in religion, in understanding natural phenomena... humm where else?
Your right Mary, "understanding" is the better term. Actually "empathy" comes into play in many martial arts (depending on the teacher of course), especially the softer arts such as Aikido.
But even my Karate teacher in Japan often talked about such concepts. Example, if violence is forced upon one only inflict the minimal amount of damage necessary to end the conflict. And of course do everything possible to avoid it in the first place.
This ties in well with grappling arts in which submission holds are used that may not inflict damage but nevertheless force an end to conflict.
This was one aspect that attracted me to Jiujitsu/Judo.
And yes, interpreting written works such as Musashi's Go Rin no Sho for business application is.... tricky to say the least. It's not like anyone will get a step up on Toyota by reading the Cleary translation, even though they sure tried back in the 80's. And we all know how well that turned out [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
It's not like anyone will get a step up on Toyota by reading the Cleary translation, even though they sure tried back in the 80's. And we all know how well that turned out [Wink]
Three years of French in high school, so I should be able to handle a decent presentation.
I had FOUR and don't know a thing... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Of course, I was living in Texas (still do) and Spanish would have actually made sense to study because I could have practiced it! We were in Paris last November and, no, it didn't come back to me at all.
Shoot, Brad: I thought you were sad about something in the nature of this topic, not an aside. LOL
I don't recall tons, but I'm surprised at how I can often read some French and figure out a fair amount of it (or how easily i can recall some when I see some; now, hearing and speaking off the cuff is an entirely different matter!). It'd make most sense to me to pick up French again, since I've got a bit of a head starts, but it makes more sense to learn Korean or Portuguese (my ancestral language).
KURI.. I'll answer about Martial arts when I have more time.. I do have something to reply.. I won't forget your post [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
FRENCH ~ SPANISH..
My son's girlfriend is Bolivienne.. and he is learning Spanish.. I want to learn spanish as well.. I'll be trying to find some language course on CD or that I can copy on CD so as to listen in the car.. and who knows.. on hikes LOL
Since we've gotten way off the beaten path here [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] ...
I was just sad because it was such a waste to spend that much time and no retain anything. Of couse, for my affinity for language (foreign and native) didn't come about until much later.
Ohhhhhh, now I understand. Bolivian... the French version. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
My wife and I were planning a driving vacation in Italy and she was going to let me go see all the old gardens I wanted so I started learning Italian, at least as well as I could from CD's and online. Now we're not going so I'm back to dabbling on my Spanish since we have a lot of Spanish speaking people here - they are in reality a majority even though considered a minority - and we vacation in Mexico quite a bit.
Your right Mary, "understanding" is the better term. Actually "empathy" comes into play in many martial arts (depending on the teacher of course), especially the softer arts such as Aikido.
But even my Karate teacher in Japan often talked about such concepts. Example, if violence is forced upon one only inflict the minimal amount of damage necessary to end the conflict. And of course do everything possible to avoid it in the first place.
This ties in well with grappling arts in which submission holds are used that may not inflict damage but nevertheless force an end to conflict.
This was one aspect that attracted me to Jiujitsu/Judo.
(quoted your post since it was on the other page.)
I'm only talking about fencing here because it's a cousin to martial arts.. and sometimes seeing the differences between the two.. actully highlights aspects of martial arts [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] .
In fencing I think we don't have any empathy at all. A point can be scored with as little as 500 grams pressure in foil and 750 in epée.. and actually.. I always found that touching as ligtly as possible added insult to injury.. which is great when you want to control the opponents mind. But also.. it really doesn't hurt physically at all.. so you can give it your all.. just have to be good at really estimating at what distance you have to be. (the insult being that he hardly felt the point, the injury being the score)
And in the case of a "violent" opponent, if the fencer stays calm and doesn't jump into the same style.. It's mostly to prove that we are superior and again try to be ahead in the mind game. If the opponent's violence makes us loose our control.. then he is on top.
Fencing for actual "self defense" is only as good as any sport.. giving confidence, fitness, reactions, calmness etc.. so there is not much thought given to "real violence" when we train.
Marykaa: Would the carry-over for self defense be the same with foil, epee, or saber? (For instance, if you had a broom stick or something similar available as a weapon.) In our Kumdo practice, there is very direct carry over to self defense if we had some such item (e.g., broomstick) available. The striking could be done in a very similar fashion.
Well.. yes I guess there would be a little more carry over value than from soccer or canoeing.. but we don't think about it much, don't emphasise it at all.. and if someone wants to fence for self defense, we'd definately tell them to go take another course.
Saber might have the strongest CO value cause it has a Slashing movement that epée and foil don't have, but the "slashing" movement of the saber is all in the fingers.. (actually much like a classical drummer's finger action on his drumsticks!) so we would really have to forget everything about technique.. there is way too much subtility in fencing to be any good for street fighting.
annecdote : the fencing reflexes definately are there.. one year, when at work at halloween I was wearing my fencing costume.. my boss came up to me while I was standing at the photo-copy machine and he did a move with his finger, from the side.. just like to touch me at my waist.. (like a fencing hit) and without thinking half a milli-second I did a first class "paré-riposte" (tossed his hand to the side and hit (very lightly) his waist with my hand closed like if I was holding a foil).. LOL.. I really didn't have to think .. it just came out that way.
but then.. I've also done some excellent lunges to catch something that was falling not too far from me.. so the carry-over value shows up in the oddest times.
Why study martial arts???
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vacation in Italy and she was going to let me go see all the old gardens I wanted so I started learning Italian, at least as well as I could from CD's and online. Now we're not going so I'm back to dabbling on my Spanish since we have a lot of Spanish speaking people here - they are in reality a majority even though considered a minority - and we vacation in Mexico quite a bit.
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