Injuries and RehabTell us where it hurts! Do a quick search before asking about your shoulder injury to make sure your question hasn't already been answered (about 50 times), and read the sticky post first.
I have been hearing a lot on boards about shoulder injuries. I know how bad they can be, and how long it can keep you out of the lifting game. The fact is, I want to make sure this never happens.
My question is, how does one exactly tell if they are in line for a shoulder injury? I have read some stuff Mens Health published. One test says to stand with your hands at your side, limp. If any of your fingers past your index finger are visible when you stand on the side, you have a high risk of a shoulder injury.
The problem I have is that once you have a mind set that an injury might happen, it's hard to make your hands limp. I'm not sure if it's psychological or not.
My shoulders have always been my weak area. So, what are some tests I can do to see if a shoulder injury is forming? I heard rounded shoulders are dangerous. Does anyone have pictures of "rounded" shoulders?
Like I said, I don't know if it's just psychological, or what. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Weight trainers with shoulder pain are notorius for having decreased internal rotation and weak lower trapezius.
Try touching your fingers together behind your back by reaching behind your head with one arm and behind your back with the other. If you can't comfortably reach the opposite shoulder blade with each hand, you may be predisposed to some form of impingement.
There are many possibilities that can lead to shoulder injury. This is just a quick, easy test. A piece of the puzzle if you will.
A lot of trainees just have lousy technique and bad programming.
Static posture tells you very little as you will assume a different posture while performing the exercises themselves, however, if you cannot assume what would be considered appropriate posture/joint positions then you have issues to deal with.
Be sure to precondition tissues with higher reps and progress to heavier loads and unload periodically.
Tony, no, i have not asked my doctor these questions. I doubt the doctor i go to would have a high knowledge on weight training.
Bill,
I tried the test, and am unable to reach. I remember way before i started lifting, not being able to do this. Could it have formed over the years? Or just a lack of flexibility? Do you know any routine to fix this? Should I stop training and focus only on shoulder work?
The biggest concern is the inability to reach your shoulder blade when reaching behind the back. That's a lack of internal rotation which is associated with some internal impingement problems that can develop into something worse. We see it a lot in baseball pitchers who develop rotator cuff problems (lots of external rotation and not enough internal rotation).
The good thing is that by restoring enough internal rotation you can pretty much eliminate the problems.
Throw a towel over your shoulder and grab it behind your back. Pull up on the towel with the other hand so it feels like someone is twisting your arm behind your back but do it gently. Long, slow comfortable stretches at first.
Also if you do any external shoulder rotation work make sure to emphasize range of motion into internal rotation.
it sounds good. Do you think i should cut out pressing movements in my workout, and do only rows? I'm doing pendulum training now.
Also, do you think along with the stretches, subbing a good rotator cuff workout would be a good idea? I know there's one on t-mag, "cracking the rotator cuff conundrum."
If you're referring to overhead presses, then yes, you could do quite well without them if they're causing you problems.
Extra rotator cuff work may be helpful, but there's also a concern with conditioning the tissues (connective tissues) to remain optimally compliant which the slower cuff work doesn't quite address.
I started doing the stretches yesterday. I can really feel them working. I noticed what a small range of motion I actually have now.
Like you said, I don't think it's that bad yet. I mainly want to prevent a shoulder injury from ever happening.
When i said pressing movements, I meant pressing like bench pressing. I know alot of "rounded shoulders" are caused from too much pressing and not enough rowing. If i took the benching out, and did only rowing for upper, would that be bad?
Or do you think that stretches will do fine to correct the problem.
I'm not having any pain in my shoulders yet, which i guess is a good sign.
I know Pendulum training has a shoulder day that consists of military presses, dumbbell shoulder press, and lateral raises. Would i be better suited to change this routine around?
Again, thanks for your help. It's nice know that you are getting advice from someone knowledable!
One thing to look at also, to help prevent injuries, is to be sure and work your rear deltoid area. I am not an expert at this but I have done some research and had some success with my own shoulder injury. Alot of weight lifters dont do any work to strengthen the rear delts and you basically get an imbalance in your shoulder muscles (the front muscles are stronger than the ones in the rear) by strengthening the rear portion of your shoulder it will help balance everything out.
Originally posted by cagiantfan: One thing to look at also, to help prevent injuries, is to be sure and work your rear deltoid area. I am not an expert at this but I have done some research and had some success with my own shoulder injury. Alot of weight lifters dont do any work to strengthen the rear delts and you basically get an imbalance in your shoulder muscles (the front muscles are stronger than the ones in the rear) by strengthening the rear portion of your shoulder it will help balance everything out.
what would be exercises to do this? I know about some about training, but when it comes to injuries and prevention, i am in the dark.
Rounded shoulders are not "caused" by bench pressing...that's just one of those pieces of bad info that has been repeated enough to become a "truth".
Rounded shoulders is usually a result of chronic posturing. In other words, you do it enough that your body adapts over time.
It's like trying to bend a steel bar. Push on it and nothing happens. Hang a 5 pound weight in the center and 2 years later the bar will be bent. Similar process.
Therefore, by simply becoming aware and correcting your posture actively until it becomes habit, many postural issues are resolved.
If flexibility limitations or weakness arise from chronic posturing, you may need to perform some flexibility training/strengthening to resolve them to allow proper posturing.
Keep in mind that the postural concerns are greatest under loading situations. For instance, every teenager I've ever worked with had crappy posture (it's a phenomenon related to sitting in school all day, video game playing, and standing like their friends), but very few couldn't assume a correct posture when cued to do so. Does that mean they need to stretch to correct it. Nope. They just need to actively correct it.
If you are able to place yourself in the proper joint positions for bench pressing (scapular retraction and depression) and hold that position under load and while straining with the weight, you have no issues. If you can't get into position or can't hold that position, then some focused work on those issues is warranted.
Two forms of overhead pressing in the same workout seems a tad redundant. Dumbbells tend to be a little more adaptable to natural joint motions as you're not restricted by the bar, but you will use a bit less weight. No big deal in my opinion.
I do Bent over dumbell rear delt raises, Bent over low pulley cable crossover, and then I will do some rotator cuff work, you can look at Bodybulding.com and find some good shoulder and rotator cuff stuff.
I do all of these last thing in my workout and I use light weights (mostly due to my sore shoulder) but since you have no injury I think you should do what is comfortable for your fitness level. But I will stress that any rotator work be last in your workout, they are pretty tender and prone to injury if they are hit too hard. I hope this helps.. Good luck.
thanks for clearing that up bill. I guess it's (benching) is one of the myths that gets said so many times, that people start to believe it. Much like the creatine debate.
What you said has cleared quite a bit up. My age is 19, and i've been training for a little over a year now. I would guess that the posture issues are something i need to work on. Considering I am a teenager, and i don't maintain good posture all the time. And, since i remember not being able to grasp hands behind my back, it may have been something related to playing too many video games when i was littler, as you said.
I thought the dumbbell and barbell pressing seemed redundant also.
Do you have any other good stretches like the towel one that you can recommend? How many times should i do them? I started twice a day.
Originally posted by cagiantfan: I do Bent over dumbell rear delt raises, Bent over low pulley cable crossover, and then I will do some rotator cuff work, you can look at Bodybulding.com and find some good shoulder and rotator cuff stuff.
I do all of these last thing in my workout and I use light weights (mostly due to my sore shoulder) but since you have no injury I think you should do what is comfortable for your fitness level. But I will stress that any rotator work be last in your workout, they are pretty tender and prone to injury if they are hit too hard. I hope this helps.. Good luck.
I have seen some rotator cuff workouts on t-mag. A lot of the professionally designed workouts i do have rotator cuff work already worked in. Like pendulum has lateral raises in them. Last time, i also subbed the dumbbell presses for cuban press.
I think my problem is bad posture, which led to a problem in flexibility, as bill stated. I'll continue with my regular routine with some cuff work, and add some stretches that bill recommended. Thanks!
I failed the test (as well as frequently throw out my elbow playing softball, like the linked article mentioned). I already have pain in the shoulder when playing volleball, and during certain stretches. I can overhead press and even do lat pullovers (similar to spiking motion in volleyball, I'd think) without any problems. It's weird.
I'm going to try these stretches RELIGIOUSLY and report back.
My question is, "If the weights don't hurt, is it OK to continue?" I'm 34 and I've been lifting for a year.
I had my wife look as I tried to touch my hands behind my back as described. Left hand behind, I got within a few inches. Right hand behind, I couldn't get within a foot...LITERALLY. It's my right shoulder that's bothering me. Hmmm... think this might be it?
Be careful not to crank too hard when performing the internal rotation stretches. They themselves can cause an impingement.
Part of the issue with weight training vs. dynamic activities is the speed at which they are performed. The tissue extensibility will be different, therefore, a weight training exercise with a similar movement pattern may be painfree while he dynamic motion may be painful.
First rule...avoid painful movement (obvious I know, but rarely followed by athletes who tend to prefer to "work through" it).
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