Injuries and RehabTell us where it hurts! Do a quick search before asking about your shoulder injury to make sure your question hasn't already been answered (about 50 times), and read the sticky post first.
So I posted this in the other universe the other day so I'm reposting it now :p
1. When did the pain begin?
The pain began about two weeks ago
2. What were you doing at the time? Or did the pain come on gradually over time?
The pain came towards the end of my workout, I'm pretty sure I was bending my lower back on back squats and that caused it
3. Where, anatomically, is the pain?
When it began it was at the very lower part of the erector spinae, left side. Now it is pretty much on both sides and it is hard to tell if it is the muscle or the spine or something else down there.
4. What does the pain feel like? Sharp? Dull? Aching? Stabbing? Shooting?
Sort of like a burning pain
5. Is the pain constant, or intermittent, or only on certain motions?
It is mostly on certain motions, like bending over with flexing the lower back, supporting loads with the hips flexed (like an RDL) with the back arched.
Right now the pain is pretty constant, but worse if I do any of the above. It was not constant until this morning. it got worse because I thought it had gotten better yesterday and I did some squats (I did not bend my lower back this time, I did front squats and I'm much better at those) push press, and chest supported rows, bad idea. It also seems that (apart from the first time when the pain pretty much came in the gym) that the pain comes in the morning after I've tried to work out again. I did it on three occations. The previously mentioned was the latest, that made it way worse. The first time I completed a full workout, pwr snatch, pwr cleans, clean pulls, front squats, etc. Woke up the next day and I was fine, so I thought it was over. Then the workout after that I tried some deadlift, then I felt some pain so I cut it short. Waited for that to pass then I tried another workout which was previously mentioned
6. What motions make your pain worse?
see above
7. What, if anything, makes your pain better?
nothing really..
8. Does your pain radiate to any other part of your body?
no
9. What things could you do before, that you cannot do now because of your injury?
squats, deadlifts, anything that puts weight on the lower back. Right now I also can't bent over to pick something up from the floor with bending my lower back. However I could do that before I relapsed.
10. What is your main concern regarding the pain and its consequences?
I'm afraid I've really injured my back and have to do a long rehab before I can start training lower body again
11. Have you ever injured that part of your body before? If so, how?
I've had a couple of "injuries" in my lower back if you can call them that. One time while deadlifting I went way too heavy and had pain and I had to stop deadlifting for a week, then it was back to normal..
And another time while doing a stretch (sitting down reaching for my toes) I think I slightly pulled something back there. Was really painful, couldn't bend over to tie my shoes even, but that too passed in a weeks time.
12. Is your pain getting worse over time? And if so, how much worse over what time period?
It was getting better until I was stupid enough to try to work out again.
The pain also seems to be on its worst in the mornings
About 2 1/2 years ago, I did something to my back while squatting and I've never been able to get back to where I was then. I don't even try any more, I've just changed everything that I do now. I know I'm a lot older than you and I've been having back spasms since I was in HS (grad'ed in '72!) so I know that I have additional concerns but don't screw around with this. You may have just strained something and it's tightened up and, in time, you'll be fine. However, if it doesn't respond soon, see a GOOD doctor. Did you ice it right away? A great resource to educate and prepare yourself is Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance, 3rd Ed. - McGill.
1. Take a week off! No heavy loading at all. Just do some aerobics swimming, elliptical ect. maybe some curls and pullups...
2. When you come back take it extremely slow! Start with a week or two of back extension and reverse hypers very light.
3. Begin Front Squats and overhead squats first. Then back squats.
4. Video tape you deads/ and squats.
5. If you are getting hurt you are either: overtraining your lowerback or using poor biomechanics. The fact that one side hurt first would lead me to believe biomechanics.
6. Check your hamstring flexibility. Work on that in your week off.
7. For my low back I enjoy using lacrosse balls to loosen up the hard to reach areas.
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"...this is the way it goes, sometimes you're flush, and sometimes you're bust... and when your up its never as good as it seems... and when your down you never think you can be up again, but life goes on, remember that..."
yeah I've stopped all loading of the spine now. I'm doing pullups, machine rows with chest support, bench press (I dunno if this is a good idea since the leg drive sorta puts the back a bit into it), pistol squats (just bw), leg press, leg curls, and some isolation for arms and calves (using a belt to add weight for calf raises to not load the back) because I'm bored. Think it is too much? can some of those put "hidden" pressure on the spine?
Leg Press and Pistols can pressure the low back. I would take them out.
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"...this is the way it goes, sometimes you're flush, and sometimes you're bust... and when your up its never as good as it seems... and when your down you never think you can be up again, but life goes on, remember that..."
The damage you did is most likely muscular so it will heal... the key is to come back slowly and progressively in terms of volume and intensity. Also you must keep perfect form.
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"...this is the way it goes, sometimes you're flush, and sometimes you're bust... and when your up its never as good as it seems... and when your down you never think you can be up again, but life goes on, remember that..."
I spend my days at a desk and in a car. I battle a tight and sore back a lot. But about 6 months ago I started getting montly massages. It has helped me tremendously.
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Leg Press and Pistols can pressure the low back. I would take them out.
hmm, sucks about the pistols, that's the only thing I can think of that can really hit my legs while this is going on. but you're probably right, you do use the back for stabilizing on the pistols.
still having it. I tried the exercises I put in my reply to Ryan yesterday and today I woke up with some pain today, it doesn't seem to be getting better during the day this time though (almost 9pm here). I guess something I did must have aggrivated it. Any ideas? I just hope it is not a herniated disc or something.
I would start with some McKenzie exercises ... lay off everything else for a week or more ... you want this thing to heal. Think of it like a papercut across your knuckle ... every time you bend your finger the cut opens up again. With a back injury, repeatedly stressing it does not allow it to heal, but reinjures it each time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UConnJulie
Many many people have lots of success with McKenzie exercises and you really should have someone evaluate your posture and mobility and teach you how to move in ways that will not transmit excessive compressive force to your lumbar spine (ie proper body mechanics).
For the McKenzie exercises, I would start with ...
And work up to this ...
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You have to wear a little unitard like that one while you do it, too. Otherwise it won't work. Shouldn't be a problem for the Butterfly Viking General.
On a serious note, I hope you're better soon. It can be hard to troubleshoot some lower back issues. Let me know if I can help you out in any way. I'm sorry you are hurting!
I would start with some McKenzie exercises ... lay off everything else for a week or more ... you want this thing to heal. Think of it like a papercut across your knuckle ... every time you bend your finger the cut opens up again. With a back injury, repeatedly stressing it does not allow it to heal, but reinjures it each time.
So not even pullups and curls then? :p
How do they help exactly (the exercises)? Wouldn't I just be laying down and extending my spine? I tried the first one just now on the floor, I can feel that it aggrivated the pain as I'm sitting down again. Thanks for the help
Thanks for the words, Lisa you can come and massage me if you want
HA! Um, air fare's a bit steep for that particular course of action, lol, but you know I'd be there if circumstances allowed!
I told you that exercise would only work if you wore the unitard! You didn't wear it, did you?
The McKenzie back extension is applicable to lower back pain caused by excessive flexion. It puts your spine is extension, allowing the viscous disc material to slowly move back into its normal central position. It creates space between the vertebra which assists in allowing the discs to move. Sometimes it takes staying in the position for a little while before the pain subsides. Try to just relax there for a few minutes.
Not all back pain is cause by flexion, but it's common and a good guess in your case since you related your pain to possible flexion during back squats.
Ice can reduce nerve pain and might help get the healing process moving along.
HA! Um, air fare's a bit steep for that particular course of action, lol, but you know I'd be there if circumstances allowed!
I told you that exercise would only work if you wore the unitard! You didn't wear it, did you?
The McKenzie back extension is applicable to lower back pain caused by excessive flexion. It puts your spine is extension, allowing the viscous disc material to slowly move back into its normal central position. It creates space between the vertebra which assists in allowing the discs to move. Sometimes it takes staying in the position for a little while before the pain subsides. Try to just relax there for a few minutes.
Not all back pain is cause by flexion, but it's common and a good guess in your case since you related your pain to possible flexion during back squats.
Ice can reduce nerve pain and might help get the healing process moving along.
Does that mean that if these exercises work something in my spine is out of place? like in a herniated disc? I hope it sounds worse than it is!
Could be a herniated disk (mild) but no way to tell without an MRI. Your symptoms suggest that it could be a disk injury. The McKenzie protocol is designed to help centralize and reduce discogenic pain. If you do a google search for McKenzie exercises or McKenzie protocol you will find lots of info.
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I've herniated L5/S1 twice, had two microdiscectomies. I can't do anything like the pictures UConnJulie posted. No supermans - nothing like that or I don't get off the floor again. If you can comfortably work into those poses then you probably don't have a herniation. If you find them painful then don't go there or you will make it worse. But as was suggested, only an MRI will tell you for sure.
This is a tough question to answer on an internet forum, but you have received a bunch of good advice here. Some points I'd add:
- Avoid ALL flexion of the lumbar spine at this time. That means no sitting with a slouch, no bending forward at the waist. Keep your neutral curves as much as possible. This keeps the nucleus portion of the disc toward the center and keeps the pressure of the disc walls.
- When performing the McKenzie exercises, try to keep your lower back and buttock muscles as relaxed as possible. Your arms should be doing all the work. WORK GRADUALLY INTO EXTENSION! You may have to use a pillow under your lower abdomen at first. If you cannot tolerate the extension, "neutral spine" is the best position for you. The more you "pick the scab," the worse the local inflammation can get and the weaker that segment of your back becomes.
I've herniated L5/S1 twice, had two microdiscectomies. I can't do anything like the pictures UConnJulie posted. No supermans - nothing like that or I don't get off the floor again. If you can comfortably work into those poses then you probably don't have a herniation. If you find them painful then don't go there or you will make it worse. But as was suggested, only an MRI will tell you for sure.
This is not necessarily true. Yes, the person in the photo is showing the optimal positioning, and is likely not injured. But I have treated hundereds of persons throughout my career who had MRI-confirmed herniations and could get into this/these positions and derived relief from them. Just because you couldn't/didn't does not mean anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWCardsFan
Karky,
This is a tough question to answer on an internet forum, but you have received a bunch of good advice here. Some points I'd add:
- Avoid ALL flexion of the lumbar spine at this time. That means no sitting with a slouch, no bending forward at the waist. Keep your neutral curves as much as possible. This keeps the nucleus portion of the disc toward the center and keeps the pressure of the disc walls.
- When performing the McKenzie exercises, try to keep your lower back and buttock muscles as relaxed as possible. Your arms should be doing all the work. WORK GRADUALLY INTO EXTENSION! You may have to use a pillow under your lower abdomen at first. If you cannot tolerate the extension, "neutral spine" is the best position for you. The more you "pick the scab," the worse the local inflammation can get and the weaker that segment of your back becomes.
Welcome Billy!
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Thanks a lot for the help everyone! I guess I should make an appointment with my doc since if it is something like a herniated disc I should know about it.
Always a good idea with back injuries as you don't want them to linger and become something chronic ... especially since you are young! Keep us posted on how it turns out.
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Is this something where I should see my doc right away, or can I wait? I'm asking because I'll be going to Oslo soon for a week or so and some other vacation stuff. I won't be aggrivating it with any training or something like that during this time.
Well I posted to you on the disappearing thread and will suggest this again . . however I am not a therapist just have had my own back issues and this is what the pt told me to do and it helped to alternate heating and cold packs on your lower back area, I could only tolerate about 6 minutes each and spent an hour each evening (I at least had a good excuse for sitting and watching the boob tube!) doing that for several weeks. My back pain did go away and I was able to restart exercising.
If it is a herniated disc, would cold and heat packs work? and if they would, would they just help the pain, or actually make it heal quicker/better too? Anyone know?
If it is a herniated disc, would cold and heat packs work? and if they would, would they just help the pain, or actually make it heal quicker/better too? Anyone know?
Mine is also quite severe (L5/S1) and I use only ice. It doesn't really bring relief, but supposedly it reduces the inflammation in the nerve.
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Julie, about the press-ups. I can do them, and have been able to get into that position, to varying degrees, quite easily. Some times during this journey, they caused more pain, and at other times, relief (remember, though, that as I recover it seems more and more plausible that I've actually had two separate-but-related injuries). Finally, my PT told me not to do them (along the vein of "if it hurts, stop doing it").
Is this something I should push? Should I do them even when my back is "healthy"?
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Julie, about the press-ups. I can do them, and have been able to get into that position, to varying degrees, quite easily. Some times during this journey, they caused more pain, and at other times, relief (remember, though, that as I recover it seems more and more plausible that I've actually had two separate-but-related injuries). Finally, my PT told me not to do them (along the vein of "if it hurts, stop doing it").
Is this something I should push? Should I do them even when my back is "healthy"?
A PT who has evaluated you in person knows a heck of a lot more about your situation than I. I would nearly always defer to someone who has evaluated you in person. McKenzie does not work for everyone, but it is a good jumping off point when the suspected injury is disk.
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Bad lower back pain
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