Injuries and RehabTell us where it hurts! Do a quick search before asking about your shoulder injury to make sure your question hasn't already been answered (about 50 times), and read the sticky post first.
Greetings to everyone, here I post my symptoms. I haven't been able to find this particular case as I searched the forum. I would appreciate any suggestion or a link to a tread where this has been mentioned.
1. When did the pain begin?
A week ago, after about the fourth workout following excersices in the book New Rules of Lifting For Women (NRL4W –stage 1)
2. What were you doing at the time? Or did the pain come on gradually over time?
It has been coming on gradually.
3. Where, anatomically, is the pain?
medial side of the knee, 1 inch from center of kneecap
4. What does the pain feel like? Sharp? Dull? Aching? Stabbing? Shooting?
Dull
5. Is the pain constant, or intermittent, or only on certain motions?
Constant, not too strong
6. What motions make your pain worse?
After doing lunges and step ups. Taking a bike ride.
7. What, if anything, makes your pain better?
I don’t know.
8. Does your pain radiate to any other part of your body?
No
9. What things could you do before, that you cannot do now because of your injury?
Nothing.
10. What is your main concern regarding the pain and its consequences?
That it becomes stronger and prevents me from following the lifting weights program as described in NRL4W.
11. Have you ever injured that part of your body before? If so, how?
No.
12. Is your pain getting worse over time? And if so, how much worse over what time period?
It has become worse with each lifting session, and after I ride my bike.
Take a week off. No NROL4W and no biking. Walking is fine if it doesn't hurt.
Do these mobility/activation exercises during that week ...
1. Quad stretch (twice a day) 30 second hold each side twice
2. Sidelying clamshell 2x10 each side
3. Glute bridging 2x10 (if you can do single side, that is better, and do 10 per side)
4. SHELC 2x10
5. Glute stretching 30 second hold each side twice
6. Hip flexor stretching 30 second hold each side twice
(Please let me know if you need links to these exercises)
Also, ice the knee daily for 10 minutes.
This might take 1 week or 2. Symptoms need to be nearly resolved before diving into NROL4W again. And when you do ... really focus on your glutes when doing lunges, squats, and step ups. You have to consciously overcome the tendency of the quads to do all the work and force the glutes to do their share.
When you restart stage 2, keep the above exercises in as part of your warmup. Save the stretches for after the workout and do the glute activation stuff during the warmup.
HTH
__________________
Life's a Journey ... Enjoy the Ride!
Take a week off. No NROL4W and no biking. Walking is fine if it doesn't hurt.
Do these mobility/activation exercises during that week ...
1. Quad stretch (twice a day) 30 second hold each side twice
2. Sidelying clamshell 2x10 each side
3. Glute bridging 2x10 (if you can do single side, that is better, and do 10 per side)
4. SHELC 2x10
5. Glute stretching 30 second hold each side twice
6. Hip flexor stretching 30 second hold each side twice
(Please let me know if you need links to these exercises)
I appreciate your time to respond with all these suggestions. From what I had been reading I suspected that I needed to focus on my glutes. I do need links to these exercises. Thank you again!
When you are working out, make sure your knees do not go over your toes. This is very important. Videotape yourself the first few weeks or so or at least get someone to watch you and your form. You said you are getting pain after doing lunges and step ups, so it may be that your knees are going over your toes.
When you are working out, make sure your knees do not go over your toes. This is very important. Videotape yourself the first few weeks or so or at least get someone to watch you and your form. You said you are getting pain after doing lunges and step ups, so it may be that your knees are going over your toes.
With women we have be more concerned with having more control over the femur and not allowing the knee to cave as we are lunging or stepping up vs. worrying about if the knees go past the toes or not. Women’s natural build of wider hips often causes the femurs to internally rotate and the knees to cave inwards. When performing exercises weaker glute musculature will not be able to control the femur and sustain neutral alignment, therefore the knee will most likely get pulled medially. That is something that will cause more stress (wear and tear) to the area vs. knees going past the toes.
As Julie recommended some good glute activation work along with some strategic stretching you’ll not only be able to get rid of the pain but will probably take care of the cause of the issue in the first place.
As Julie recommended some good glute activation work along with some strategic stretching you’ll not only be able to get rid of the pain but will probably take care of the cause of the issue in the first place.
Great! Thank you Rusland. I am feeling so encouraged to have found this forum and such nice people willing to spend some time giving suggestions. I will faithfully do the recommended exercises.
With women we have be more concerned with having more control over the femur and not allowing the knee to cave as we are lunging or stepping up vs. worrying about if the knees go past the toes or not. Women’s natural build of wider hips often causes the femurs to internally rotate and the knees to cave inwards. When performing exercises weaker glute musculature will not be able to control the femur and sustain neutral alignment, therefore the knee will most likely get pulled medially. That is something that will cause more stress (wear and tear) to the area vs. knees going past the toes.
As Julie recommended some good glute activation work along with some strategic stretching you’ll not only be able to get rid of the pain but will probably take care of the cause of the issue in the first place.
Absolutely Ruslan! Women need strong glutes and hamstrings to offset a whole host of anatomical differences that set us up for knee injuries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leyla
I appreciate your time to respond with all these suggestions. From what I had been reading I suspected that I needed to focus on my glutes. I do need links to these exercises. Thank you again!
Happy to help! Keep us posted on how you make out!
Thank you Julie...Great links. One more question. You recommend doing the Quad stretch twice a day. How about the rest of the exercises, should I do them once a day?
Thank you Julie...Great links. One more question. You recommend doing the Quad stretch twice a day. How about the rest of the exercises, should I do them once a day?
Good video ... most of the ones posted at StrengthMill are excellent.
You can do the other exercises just once a day, except maybe the glute stretch, that would be good to do twice a day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bliss
Leyla- while most people are very nice and helpful, please take everything with a grain of salt. Some on here like to give advice that is not correct.
Cheers.
Very true. It is always a good idea to find out the qualifications of the person giving advice.
If you want my bio it is available at my website which is linked in my siggie.
__________________
Life's a Journey ... Enjoy the Ride!
Very true. It is always a good idea to find out the qualifications of the person giving advice.
If you want my bio it is available at my website which is linked in my siggie.
I understand that when we look into "the internet" for advise we must double check and cross reference the information that is given. In participating in a forum such as this one, I could assume that some advice might be well intentioned, but not accurate. But there are ways to have an indication if a piece of advice is sound.
Julie, I had already read your profile and noted your experience in the field and how much you participate in this forum.
Thank you again, I appreciate your time and care.
With women we have be more concerned with having more control over the femur and not allowing the knee to cave as we are lunging or stepping up vs. worrying about if the knees go past the toes or not. Women’s natural build of wider hips often causes the femurs to internally rotate and the knees to cave inwards. When performing exercises weaker glute musculature will not be able to control the femur and sustain neutral alignment, therefore the knee will most likely get pulled medially. That is something that will cause more stress (wear and tear) to the area vs. knees going past the toes.
As Julie recommended some good glute activation work along with some strategic stretching you’ll not only be able to get rid of the pain but will probably take care of the cause of the issue in the first place.
Oh ok, so if I am understanding this correctly, its weak glutes that can cause stress (wear and tear)? How about males? Does this apply for men too or just females?
Mostly women as we have anatomical differences that most men don't have. The increased width of our hips increases something called Q-angle which puts a lot of stress on knees.
The glute weakness can be a man OR woman thing. John Berardi wrote a series of articles on Dave Tate's "Gluteal Amnesia". Google it if you want to read them. But women seem to be more prone to it. Probably also has to do with our tendancy to have our pelvises anteriorly tilted (which also weakens the glutes).
__________________
Life's a Journey ... Enjoy the Ride!
I have been doing the exercises suggested by Julie three days in a row now. The good news is that I'm learning muscle anatomy first hand by feeling a little sore in muscles that I had never really felt before... hamstrings, glutes...!!
I have been icing the knees also.
My right knee seems to be stable in its pain, it is not getting worse. (I have not biked or taken walks at all)
The not so good news is that my left knee seems to be getting a little more painful... over my kneecap now. This is in addition to the medial side pain. I have heard a tiny crackling noise when I bent the knee if I squat. Also I find it hard to do the Hip flexor stretching. I feel better when I rest my knee on a blanket to soften the surface.
The other good news is that I am feeling more determined to be patient, but to persist in handling this and getting on with the weight lifting.
It is fine to kneel on a soft surface for the hip flexor stretching ... fold up a blanket or use a small pillow ... it is fine. I actually use a yoga mat folded several times.
With the quad stretching, how close to your butt can you get your foot?
The crunchy noise you hear is crepitus. Most people have it. There is no definitive cause ... some say chondromalacia, some say subclinical arthritis. My take is that it is probably from the inflammation.
Is it possible for you to post some pictures for me? Standing in a comfortable stance ... both from the front, left, back, and right. Shorts or bathing suit. No socks or shoes.
__________________
Life's a Journey ... Enjoy the Ride!
Is it possible for you to post some pictures for me? Standing in a comfortable stance ... both from the front, left, back, and right. Shorts or bathing suit. No socks or shoes.
My wife has recently started working out with weights and complains that her knees hurt, similar to Layla. When I watch her squat, she has a tendency to lean forward once she gets to a certain depth (I'd say above parallel). I think she isn't strong enough in the glutes and hamstrings. She seems flexible enough, but complains of tightness on her outer hips.
I've got here starting with the glute bridging, SHELC, and front & side planks to activate and stengthen the core. Is there a good progression to teach the squat? Maybe something easier to build the strength.
Full body would be better, but you don't have to show your head if that makes you uncomfortable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meverett172000
Great advice, Julie.
My wife has recently started working out with weights and complains that her knees hurt, similar to Layla. When I watch her squat, she has a tendency to lean forward once she gets to a certain depth (I'd say above parallel). I think she isn't strong enough in the glutes and hamstrings. She seems flexible enough, but complains of tightness on her outer hips.
I've got here starting with the glute bridging, SHELC, and front & side planks to activate and stengthen the core. Is there a good progression to teach the squat? Maybe something easier to build the strength.
Have her start with bodyweight squats. There is also a few good squat videos around ... at the Fitcast there is a Dan John squat video which is excellent for teaching proper squat form. And at the top of the training forum there is a sticky for a series of squat rx videos. Also excellent.
Many people, especially women squat improperly by bending the knees first. The first movement should be of the hips backward, like they are reaching for the wall behind you. Then the knees bend. This helps keep the weight in the heels and the strain on the glutes and off the knees and quads.
Core work can also be important as stability is often the missing link if mobility and flexibility are normal. So that is a good thing to add in for sure.
__________________
Life's a Journey ... Enjoy the Ride!
You definitely have some stuff going on in your hips ... and ankles. Is your left foot flatter than the right? I see some overpronation some of which can be structural, and some of which can be functional. Also, your quad is definitely tight since your pelvis is rotating anteriorly with that quad stretch.
I think we're on the right track. Instead of the kneeling hip flexor stretch, try this variation ... but have your back knee on the sofa or an ottoman or something soft about knee height, and your front foot on the floor. Then grab your back foot and pull toward your butt.
It will stretch like nothing you've ever felt, ease off a bit if you need to, and hold for 30 seconds minimum, twice each leg, twice a day.
Keep up with the glute activation stuff.
Are you doing anything else right now for workouts?
__________________
Life's a Journey ... Enjoy the Ride!
You definitely have some stuff going on in your hips ... and ankles. Is your left foot flatter than the right?
On visual inspection both feet seem the same. Is there any way to measure accurately?
Quote:
Originally Posted by UConnJulie
I think we're on the right track. Instead of the kneeling hip flexor stretch, try this variation ... but have your back knee on the sofa or an ottoman or something soft about knee height, and your front foot on the floor. Then grab your back foot and pull toward your butt.
It will stretch like nothing you've ever felt, ease off a bit if you need to, and hold for 30 seconds minimum, twice each leg, twice a day.
I will try this one. Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UConnJulie
Keep up with the glute activation stuff.
I have not missed a day!
Quote:
Originally Posted by UConnJulie
Are you doing anything else right now for workouts?
No, I haven't done any thing else since you suggested to take a week off from NROL4W and biking. Yesterday and today my knees felt better. Not 100% out of pain, but better. Today I took a 35 min walk. Could I do something else for exercise... some of the lifting for the upper body... any recommendations?
Thank you again for your responses.
Thank you for your advice Julie... I'm taking it slowly, and I have been doing the variation of the hip-flexor stretch.
Today, the pain in my right knee is almost not noticeable, but my left leg… in addition to the knee, my calves and my ankle (the back of the foot) are hurting too. I'm wondering if I am being too "enthusiastic" with any of these activation exercises. I decided to skip the SHELC today.
Happy to help! Keep us posted on how you make out!
Hi guys, I hope it's okay to sort of hijack this thread since it's been inactive for a bit...I actually have almost exactly the same problem as Leyla and wanted to thank you, especially UConnJulie, for your helpful advice. I had been doing some reading and gathered that my knees were hurting b/c of lack of gluteal activation, but I really appreciated the list of stretches and exercises. Plus I liked the look on my husband's face when I told him I have "gluteal amnesia" ... I've been taking a short break from NROL4W and doing these stretches and exercises--I'll see on Tuesday how I make out.
With women we have be more concerned with having more control over the femur and not allowing the knee to cave as we are lunging or stepping up vs. worrying about if the knees go past the toes or not. Women’s natural build of wider hips often causes the femurs to internally rotate and the knees to cave inwards. When performing exercises weaker glute musculature will not be able to control the femur and sustain neutral alignment, therefore the knee will most likely get pulled medially. That is something that will cause more stress (wear and tear) to the area vs. knees going past the toes.
As Julie recommended some good glute activation work along with some strategic stretching you’ll not only be able to get rid of the pain but will probably take care of the cause of the issue in the first place.
Is this a Q angle issue?
Great info. Leyla, I hope your knee heals soon. Don't let it frustrate you (alright get frustrated if you have too, but don't let it stop you on your path to fitness).
New to weight lifting, getting knee pain
Also I find it hard to do the Hip flexor stretching. I feel better when I rest my knee on a blanket to soften the surface. 
... I've been taking a short break from NROL4W and doing these stretches and exercises--I'll see on Tuesday how I make out.
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