Numbness in upper hamstring and/or toes while running - JP Fitness Forums

Sotally Tober · 12-07-2007, 10:50 AM

This is probably less of an injury and more of a "condition" question. I apologize if this has been asked before, I didn't find anything in the search function.

Preliminary info: I'm a newbie runner (7 months). I had my second ACL surgery in January (after putting it off for 5 years), if that makes any difference. I started running (on a treadmill) simply as part of my rehab, but since May I have really taken to it and decided to become psuedo-serious about it. In fact, it helped me drop 60 pounds over the first 6 months after my surgery. I now run 5-6 days per week, 25-35 miles, outdoors. No injuries since May, besides a rolled ankle or two.

Not sure when I first noticed these symptoms. I only feel them when I'm running.

Symptom #1: During my run, the back of my right leg, right under my buttock, seems to be numb. No pain. And it's not that feeling like when your hand falls asleep. It's just a numb, "dead" feeling. It seems to start right under my buttock and extend down my hamstring into the middle of my leg.

Symptom #2: During my run, my toes may start to feel numb, but this is more like the feeling of when your hands fall asleep. Wiggling my toes while I run seems to do the trick. It occassionally occurs more than once during the run.

Symptoms do not seem to necessarily occur simultaneously.

The back of my leg thing is kinda weird though b/c it makes me feel like I am "dragging" that leg a bit. No idea if I actually am. In fact, I doubt that I am. It's just a very odd sensation to have. But once I notice it, I proceed to find something else to focus on so I can ignore it, and 15 seconds later, I do.

The toe-thing, I just start wiggling my toes as I run, and it seems to go away in short order.

Again, I want to emphasize, there is no pain, it does not linger, and I'm just wondering why it happens, or what could be the cause, is this a pre-cursor to something else, etc?

Thanks in advance.

Great forum, BTW.

UConnJulie · 12-07-2007, 11:20 AM

Could be ... do you stretch at all? If so, what stretches do you do, and how long do you hold them? Do you do any weight training/resistance training?

Sotally Tober · 12-07-2007, 11:32 AM

I occassionally do very light stretching before running. I doubt I spend even 3 minutes on it. Most/All is done afterwards. But for some reason, on those days that I do stretch pre-run, I'll do a quick calf stretch, and a super-easy hamstring, quad & groin stretch. I have a few friends who are runners...marthoners, and one guy is one of those sick-in-the head ultra-marathoners. They told me they don't stretch at all, ever, before running. They loosen up by starting out very slowly and warming up by running. I'm also reading a very good book called "Chi Running", by Danny Dreyer, who also advocates stretching afterwards, not before. In addition, I have read some articles essentially advocating this idea b/c stretching cold muscles doesn't actually warm them up for activity and can actually increase the chance of injury. So I have basically followed this advice since the beginning, and have had no issues.

Is that to say that these "symptoms" aren't the result of warming up this way? I certainly can't say that. They might be. In which case, that'd be fine with me. But when I posed this question to those guys, none of them acknowledged ever having had these symptoms.

I try to get 3 weight training sessions in per week, but lately it's been closer to 2. And not heavy weight training. I focus more on adding strength than size. I use workouts from www.podiftness.com.

UConnJulie · 12-07-2007, 12:51 PM

I didn't mean to imply that you should stretch before running. In fact, other than a couple of static stretches, I would opt more for a dynamic warm up including ankle mobility drills, toy soldier (dynamic hamstring mobility), hip mobility and activation stuff etc.

Any history of lower back pain?

How is your hamstring length? Can you sit on the floor with your legs straight out in front of you keeping an arch in your back and with your knees flat on the floor?

How is your core strength? Can you do a plank for 2 minutes?

And what static stretches do you currently do after running? How long do you hold each stretch?

Thanks ... sorry for all the questions ... I just want to give you my best answer!

Sotally Tober · 12-07-2007, 01:13 PM

No sweat. I didn't mean to sound defensive. sorry if I did.

No history of lower back pain. My hamstring strength is quite good (I'm a former college soccer player, so leg strength has always been very good for me). In addition, I had them tested, along with quad strength, near the end of my ACL rehab. This would have been in early June. Can I just sit like that, or do I need to touch my toes, or something?

My core strength is average to above average, maybe. I definitely fall into the category of people w/o washboard abs that Peyton Manning refers to in his commercial, but I can do a regular front plank for 2 minutes, for sure. 3 minutes? Possibly not, never tried that long.

Current static stretches: (I just got these from Chi Running, I like)
1) Hamstring - leg on chair, reach for toes on chair, 3x10 seconds per leg
2) Hip flexor/hamstring - foot on chair, pelvis toward raised heel, 3x10 seconds per leg
3) Calf - left toe and knee touching wall, right heel planted behind me, right shoulder on wall - 3x10 seconds per calf
4) Hip Adductor/hamstring - same as hamstring, except reach down to foot on the floor instead, 3x10 seconds per leg
5) Standing Quad Stretch - right hand grab right ankle, pull toward buttock, 3x10 seconds per leg
6) Leg "drains" - both legs up on a wall, lying on back - 3-4 minutes

BjsAust · 12-07-2007, 05:04 PM

For your toes...you're not just tieing your shoes too tight sometimes are you?

kfisherx · 12-08-2007, 02:08 AM

Oh boy... I don't want to be the person to make you worry too much but I am coming back from a torn hamstring tendon (right leg). I got it from overuse and it came on very mildly just like you are describing. I ran through the pain up to the point that it became a chronic injury and pretty severe. This took 7 months. It never really hurt per say so I didn't figure anything was wrong. Finally at about the 7 month point it started to bother me even when I was sitting and walking.

A couple of things here. First make sure that you are stretching your IT band every single day if you are a runner. You do this on a roller and it hurts like all heck but it is the only way I know to stretch it. A tight IT band will often assist in these other injuries. Next you mentioned that you turned an ankle more than once. You should do some balancing exercises to make sure that those muscles are firing correctly. I have been running since I was 18 and have never turned an ankle on the run. That said my balancing muscles were very weak when I finally ended up in physical therapy and that also compromises your leg on the run. One great way to train these muscles is to stand on one leg (put the lifted leg to the front of you) then cross your arms over your chest and close your eyes. Do this for 30 seconds each leg at least once a day. Also stand on one foot as often as you can each day like when you brush your teeth for instance. If these things are all deadly simple for you already I would have your stride checked out by a qualified PT or Dr just to be sure that is all okay. Finally do hamstring, hip and glut exercises regularly to strengthen those parts too. They all have to be very strong if you intend to run without injury.

I have read as well that if you have stronger quads than Hamstrings that could cause issues as well. So if you do a lot of quad work you may want to back that down for awhile.

Whatever you do, don't ignore this in hopes that it wil go away. Don't run through it. Give your hammie time to heal. The area right under the butt is exactly where the tendon is btw and that is worse than muscle tear.

I hope I am deadly wrong about this but reading you description makes me cringe.

UConnJulie · 12-10-2007, 01:21 PM

It sounds to me like a neural tension issue ... try this stretch variation and see if it helps ... if it helps a little, but doesn't completely relieve it, I can give you a "stronger" version.

Lie on your back and bring the involved leg up toward your chest, lacing your fingers together behind the knee. Let your hip relax so that your arms are generally straight (your hip will be bent about 90 degrees).

Extend your lower leg up toward the ceiling (straightening your knee as much as you are able). Now hold it there as you slowly bend and flex your ankle (dorsiflex and plantarflex). It will probably feel different during dorsiflexion than plantarflexion (degree of stretch). Perform for 30 seconds each leg, twice.

Do before your run and see if it impacts the onset. If you can, when it comes on, try this stretch and see if it helps. (not great if running in the woods or on the road, but doable on a treadmill).

Let me know how it goes ...

Sotally Tober · 12-12-2007, 07:13 PM

kfisherx, boy I hope you're wrong too.

And my turned ankles were from stepping on something I didn't see while running at night (tree limb & large rock), not from weakness or bad form. So I think I'm OK there. BTW, this will be dumb question...what is my IT band? And what kind of roller do I need? I've heard people refer to their IT band, but I was too embarassed to ask what it was.

Julie, tyvm. I'll give that a try and report back.

LisaS · 12-12-2007, 07:38 PM

IT = iliotibial - roughly it runs down the outside of your thigh from your hip to the outside of your lower leg.

Sotally Tober · 12-13-2007, 07:51 AM

Thank you, Lisa. Now, how in the heck to I stretch that with a roller? I assume kfisherx meant a foam roller? how big of one?

Thanks for all the help.

UConnJulie · 12-13-2007, 08:28 AM

Hurts so good ...

Lisa~ · 12-16-2007, 10:29 AM

Here's some more info on foam rolling that might interest/help you:

http://forums.jpfitness.com/new-rule...m-rollers.html

How and Why of Foam Rolling?

Question about foam rolling hip flexors

kfisherx · 12-16-2007, 11:16 AM

Sorry I haven't checked in on this for awhile. It looks like the girls are taking care of your questions perfectly. Even if you IT band is not the root cause my PT says that all runners and bikers should do that foam rolling thing (see picture above). It does hurt like crazy though...

UConnJulie · 12-16-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kfisherx

Sorry I haven't checked in on this for awhile. It looks like the girls are taking care of your questions perfectly. Even if you IT band is not the root cause my PT says that all runners and bikers should do that foam rolling thing (see picture above). It does hurt like crazy though...

Yeah ... not sure why she is smiling!!

Bill Hartman · 12-16-2007, 07:17 PM

Food for thought...

You have an asymmetry otherwise you'd have symptoms on both sides.

If you always run on the same side of the road, one foot will always pronate or supinate more than the other.

Do this:

A single leg squat on each side and compare symmetries in the knee, hip, and lower back

Stand on one leg with hands behind head and other knee raised as high as possible for slow count of 10. Compare balance, wobble, knee position of both legs, hip position of both legs, and lumbar posture

Perform a maximal single leg long jump and compare distance and landing mechanics on both sides (by the way, my guess is that they tested your quad/ham strength while sitting on a kin-com, biodex, or cybex and compared sides. This long jump test is infinitely superior to any isloated test sitting down)

Any symmetry in these test will need to be fixed to fix your problem.

Dead numbness (like you can stick a pin in it and not feel it) is a neural compression issue. Pins and needles feeling is a release phenomenon preceded by a compression.

If you have an IT band problem it is a symptom, not the cause.

My money is on a weakness/coordination issue. Get someone with a good set of eyes and knowledge of corrective programming to help you. I'd also cut back on running before you are injured and cannot run at all.

Bill

Sotally Tober · 01-03-2008, 11:34 AM

Well, I haven't really had much of an issue with this lately. That's not to say never, but I'd definitely say it falls in the "rarely" category. I did just switch to a new running shoe, and I discovered the benefits of dri-fit socks. On long runs I was really starting to irritate the skin under my foot, like a blister, but not really a blister. Just sorta tearing the skin away. I noticed my socks were really wet after 8+ miles, and figured that was the cause. 'sho 'nuff. My feet are much happier now. But I dobnt those were the issue.

Anyway, thanks for all the advice. That IT stretch is great.

Tangent: I really hate when I decide to change up my weight training routine, and my body is sore right after b/c of the change, especially if it's in my legs. I know that this is a good thing, and I need to continue changing my routine (I do every 4-6 weeks), but it really makes that week of running tough. This is one of those weeks. Oh, well. I'm done venting now.

Thanks again everyone.