Choosing a Mouse for RSI

[Jeff Rage]

Based on talking to others, I have the symptoms of Golfer's Elbow. I believe this is from prolonged computer use, combined with the hard gripping on the pulling lifts I do at the gym. For now, I'm trying to use my other hand for mousing. I am also looking at getting a different mouse/pointing device.

It seems that most of the aggravation is caused by left clicking the mouse. The only way to completely eliminate left clicking with the index finger would be to get a mouse that had a programmable thumb button. (I read one review where a person with RSI issues commented that when clicking with his thumb, other fingers had to have more tension to counteract this, which aggravated his pain.) One thing I noticed is that there is a difference in the amount of pressure needed to left various mice.

Many people with RSI issues go to trackballs. I'm thinking that one with the ball at the thumb like the Logitech Trackman Wheel may not be the best idea. I was looking at the Logitech Marble Mouse. This is the least expensive (~$20) and does not require left clicking with the index finger. The Logitech Trackman Optical could also be set up to left click with the thumb. The most "non-mouselike" one I was looking at was the Kensington Expert Mouse. This thing is huge - 5" X 5.75".

For regular mice, the Microsoft Natural felt quite comfortable. The one drawback is that I would not be able to reach the 2 thumb buttons in my normal hand position. Also saw the Logitech MX Revolution. There a scroll thingy at the thumb. I think I could also use one of the alternate buttons to left click with the thumb.

Searching online, I came across the Perfit mouse. From their site "Through years of testing we have discovered a unique posture for the fingers, thumb and palm that is not only great for rapid target acquisition, but also allows maximum muscle and tendon variation throughout point and click operations." They claim that due to the better finger position, that you need 50% less pressure to click the buttons. They even have 4 sizes, depending on your hand size. (Mine are very small.) This is the only ergonomic mouse that listed research that was done on it. This mouse was voted "The Best Ergonomic Product" at an exhibition of ergonomics products at the 13th Triennial Congress of the International Ergonomics Association. Unfortunately, I highly doubt I'd find a store that would have these to try. The price (>$100) is also a drawback.

Any advice on these or any other mice/pointing devices? (I realize the only way to know for sure is to try one out for several weeks.)

[UConnJulie]

Hey Jeff, sorry that you are having RSI symptoms ... do you do any forearm stretching and/or wrist mobility drills? If not, let me know and I'll post some for you ...

As for the mice ... you really need to try different ones to determine what is going to be the best fit for your hand ... sometimes it is better to get the more expensive one if that is the one that really fits and helps versus ending up with 3-4 different less expensive ones. My best advice would be to go to a store where they have lots of different mice to try out (they must have those near where you live). What feels good for one hand might not for another even if they are the same size.

[Aoife]

I hate mice. (Since my iBook has a trackpad, I use that.)
The only external pointing device I use is my tablet, and I only use the stylus with it. Perhaps it's something to keep in mind, as cheap wacom tablets are pretty sweet.

[Jeff Rage]

Julie, is there stretching besides simply pulling on my fingers to bend my hand back? For wrist mobility, I clasp by hands together and then rotate 10 times in each direction (prior to lifting for Upper Body.) Is there something else that might be better?

Aoife, yes a tablet/touchpad would be a possibility.

Here's a few pics that show where the pain is centered:





I notice it hurts more the more I prone my arm. I'm thinning that maybe a mouse that doesn't have my hand flat might be better. I'll go try some more out today. Price isn't a concern, if it's something that will help. I'll want to get something for work as well - night go less expensive for that one.

[RacerBill]

I've tried a trackball mouse and didn't care for it much.

About ten years ago I had some problems with tendonitis in my right hand and cubital tunnel syndrome, too. I switched the mouse to the left-hand side and never went back. It takes a bit of practice, but within a few weeks it'll be easy.

[Jeff Rage]

I went to Comp USA today. They have all the mice I listed above, except the Perfit. I asked someone who worked there about them. He said the Kensington was their best seller. That stuck me as odd - I guess I thought the Logitech Marble Mouse or Trackman Wheel would be more popular.

I looked at the Wacom Bamboo tablet - I think this would be too large. I still haven't ruled out a touchpad.

I think I realized something today. I get a bunch of pain if I outstretch my arm and then kink my hand up - which is almost the exact position my hand is in for the mouse (except it's not outstretched.) I believe that I'd do better with a mouse/trackball that isn't horizontal. Of those above, the Logitech Trackman Optical, Microsoft Natural, and the Logitech MX Revolution put the hand at about 45 degrees.

Originally Posted by RacerBill

About ten years ago I had some problems with tendonitis in my right hand and cubital tunnel syndrome, too. I switched the mouse to the left-hand side and never went back. It takes a bit of practice, but within a few weeks it'll be easy.

Yeah, that's what I'm doing now - using the left hand. It's very awkward. If I want to continue using only the left, I think I still may want to consider a different mouse.

[LisaS]

have you tried putting something (like a folded towel) under your forearm so that your wrist doesn't "kink up" to hold the mouse? Or otherwise change your chair height to facilitate holding your arm differently and change that angle?
I know I used to have to put a mousepad under my left elbow as I would lean on it and irritate the nerve while typing - but recently changed something in posture and now don't have the elbow leaning any more (after YEARS of doing this)

[UConnJulie]

Originally Posted by LisaS

have you tried putting something (like a folded towel) under your forearm so that your wrist doesn't "kink up" to hold the mouse? Or otherwise change your chair height to facilitate holding your arm differently and change that angle?
I know I used to have to put a mousepad under my left elbow as I would lean on it and irritate the nerve while typing - but recently changed something in posture and now don't have the elbow leaning any more (after YEARS of doing this)

Yes, and you should ask at your work if your company has an ergonomic specialist they could have look at your entire work station as often although the symptom is RSI at your wrist/forearm, the real issue is with your chair or some other part of your workstation.

This is a good stretch for those muscles and can be done standing at a table too. You want to stretch periodically throughout the day, not just when you lift. Also notice what tension you carry in that area during your work day. Sometimes that is an area in which unnecessary tension is held. Conscious relaxation of those muscles can help.

[Sam S]

The Zero Tension Mouse from the Active Release guy is superior to all the models you mentioned. You also need to have someone work on your pronator teres.

[Jeff Rage]

Originally Posted by Sam S

The Zero Tension Mouse from the Active Release guy is superior to all the models you mentioned. You also need to have someone work on your pronator teres.

Zero Tension Mouse™
Well, that girl certainly looks happy enough!

Oh wow, that was created by P Michael Leahy, the ART guy.

Interesting, I didn't come across that one in my research.

[Jeff Rage]

Here's something I came across:

Comparison of Postures from Pen and Mouse Use

I'll post the summary, since the PDF is quite long:

Results from the Wacom pen test demonstrated less posture deviation from neutral during pen use
than during mouse use. Mice studies have demonstrated excessive deviation from neutral.
Excessive hand pronation and extension, as well as ulnar deviation and radial deviation have been
observed of subject using mice. No pronation was observed of subject using the Wacom pen.
Although extension and flexion was not measured, it was observed in only one subject who used
the left hand; but the extension and flexion of this subject was not excessive nor prolonged.
Average ulnar deviation during pen use was substantially less than during mouse use. Radial
deviation for both pen and mouse use has been demonstrated to be low, but average radial
deviation with pen use was less than with mouse use. In conclusion, pen use results in a posture
more neutral than during mouse use and thus appears to be a biomechanically superior input
device.

[Jeff Rage]

I got the Marble Mouse hooked up at work, along with my regular mouse. This thing is hard to use, since there's no scroll wheel. You can make the ball do universal/auto scroll, but it's still not as nice as a scroll wheel.

[Jeff Rage]

I went to get ART tonight. He diagnosed me with Medial Epicondylitis (Golfer's Elbow.) He found some very tender spots that I wasn't even aware of.

He recommended ice and stretching, and wants me to come back regularly until it feels better. When I asked about a mouse, obviously he recommended the Zero Tension Mouse.

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by Jeff Rage

I went to get ART tonight. He diagnosed me with Medial Epicondylitis (Golfer's Elbow.) He found some very tender spots that I wasn't even aware of.

He recommended ice and stretching, and wants me to come back regularly until it feels better. When I asked about a mouse, obviously he recommended the Zero Tension Mouse.

I had lateral epicondylitis, for quite a few months because I was stupid enough to workout through the pain. Stretching and icing is the standard rehab methodology for epicondylitis. Do this person give you some stretches?

Epicondylitis is going to largely depend on how tightly you grip things. Also, depending on how advanced yours is, it could be months of rehab, because it's a tendon problem. If you acted quickly enough, it should not take as long.

Consider a sponge grip for pens and pencils. If your job requires computer use, you may be able to get your employer to buy you a ZT mouse (for company use, of course).

Also, see if your health insurance may cover it.

[waynea]

One option you can use to give your primary hand a rest, is to spend some time using your other hand to control the mouse. I know that it seems difficult when you start, but with some practice you will soon be flying. This strategy has been a useful adjunct to soft tissue work for some of my clients with forearm, shoulder and neck discomfort.

[Jeff Rage]

So, I took 2 week off from the gym, but I don't think it helped. Last night, my forearm was killing me, doing seated rows. I went and got straps. I'm going to try them on all my pulling movements. Should I wear my brace while I lift? If this doesn't work, I don't know what to do.

As far as pointing devices, I got a tablet. It's a tad awkward to surf with a pen, and I keep winding up using the tablet mouse. I'm going to just mouse left handed for a while. I also got a mini keyboard and separate number pad. This will give me more freedom in where I position things, and will require less overall movement. (Just got these, haven't set them up , yet.)

[Jeff Rage]

Using straps while lifting yesterday seemed to help. My forearm still hurt during lifts that required gripping, but felt OK in-between sets and after l