Rotators - 2 questions

[mhunter]

I've got some nagging rotator cuff issues. I just have a couple basic questions.
1. Is it better to do your rotator work before or after a workout? Obviously, you need to warm up the muscles before, but I've also heard that it can be dangerous to fatigue them before an upper body workout and they need time to recover like any other muscles.

2. A PT I talked to told be not to bench or do military typre presses for two weeks until my current inflammation had gone down. Probably good advice but, I don't think he works much with athletes and lifters. I'm going to take one week off but Does anyone have ideas for chest and shoulder work that doesn't generally bother the rotator cuffs?

Thanks a lot.

ps- I know somebody is going to tell me to get "Inside Out" and/or "Magnificent Mobility." Thanks. I intend to. But right now I'm a married grad student with 2 kids and I don't have the money.

[UConnJulie]

I generally believe that it is better to do your rotator cuff work prior to your workout as part of your warm up. You are generally working those muscles well below the fatigue threshold, so it shouldn't be an issue later in your workout. I also believe that you are neurologically improving firing patterns and that could help your workout.

Generally you want to avoid doing anything that irritates the shoulder ... so if you have pain during or after doing a particular movement, then avoid that movement for 2 weeks or so ...

I highly recommend this article that Bill Hartman and Mike Robertson wrote ... Push Ups, Face Pulls, and Shrugs ... it might address a lot of your questions ...

One concern I have is what is causing your shoulder pain? Often rotator cuff problems are just a symptom of something else ... usually scapular instability or dyskinesia ... so doing rotator cuff work won't ultimately help unless you correct the scapular problems.

[mhunter]

Thanks Julie! Benching sem sto be the main irritant but when I was doing the chek press in NROL, I don't think my shoulders liked that either. Other things are no doubt related. I spend a lot of time doing crazy stuff with my 2 1/2 year old and holding my 13 week old. Its very hard to cradle an infant with good posture (ie, torso and head upright, keeping a natural curve in the spine with shoulders back and down). Pull-ups used to other me but I've been working really hard in both bench and pull-ups to maintain scapular retraction. I checked out that article and I'm going to try that stuff when I start up again. The article doesn't seem clear about what kind of rep/set schem one should use though. I also have been thiking about trying the p/rehab work that Cosgrove/Waterbury suggest in their t-nation "Monster shoulders" article.
peace,
Matt

[Jason B]

First off, how do you know it's rotator cuff issues? Like Julie said, rotator cuff problems are usually a sign of some other underlying issue, namely poor scapular position and movement balance. You said you concentrate really on maintaining scap retraction in both bench and pull-ups, that's great, but that's one movement, you have to balance that with protraction. Also, both of those exercises are internal rotations, what do your external rotations look like? You have to balance your scapular movements in all three planes. You have to balance retraction with protraction, elevation with depression, upward rotation with downward rotation. Not to mention balancing your pushes and pulls for the shoulder joint, as well as external rotation with internal rotation. Most times throwing in some extra rotator work isn't going to solve it. The article Julie mentioned is great, I also suggest EC's shoulder saver series on t-nation, along with just about anything else by Eric.

[mhunter]

I honestly don't even know what protration IS. I do a pretty good job balancing pushes and pulls... I'm going to go look at the shoulder saver series...

[karky]

Protraction - push shoulderblades forward
retraction - pull them back
elevation - pull them up (shrug)
depression - pull them down.
That should be right i think..
and you got the rotation too, upward and downward rotation.