ROWS-Shoulder Extension

[jdghost]

I have heard it mentioned on this forum that ROWS with too much shoulder extension can be harmful to the rotator cuff. What exactly does this mean? I am assuming that it means pulling too far back (e.g elbows behind you)?

Historically I have done lots of pushups/pullups, but am trying to cure nagging impingement. I assumed ROWS were the way to go.

[Lisa~]

Until Bill is available to answer your question, it might be helpful to read some of his posts where this question was address:

Bill: Bench to row ratio?

JP Fitness Summit 2006 Questions

[Bill Hartman]

The link queen posts again!!

DSC00920.JPG

Shoulders extended. You can see the humeral head push forward. If the posterior shoulder is stiff or short and/or the anterior capsule is loose or the subscapularis fatigues or fails to restrict the forward movement of the humeral head, impingement will follow. Many folks have trouble with this because of stiff/short pec minor or thoracic kyphosis.

DSC00921.JPG

Here's what it should look like. The humerus stops moving when the scapula stop. this prevents excessive shoulder extension and wear n tear on the anterior structures.

Bill

[jdghost]

Thanks for the pictures.

Bill, I saw that you recommended Face-Pulls instead of ROWS. What would be the safe range of motion for the face pulls?

[Lisa~]

You can see the ROM in this video of Bill doing face pulls in this excellent, must read article:

Push-Ups, Face Pulls, and Shrugs
...for Strong and Healthy Shoulders!
by Bill Hartman and Mike Robertson

[karky]

I just tried doing some "air rows" to see where my ROM stopps.
I notice that once the shoulderblades stop moving, the elbow also starts swinging upwards. You might say "duuh", but i thought that was a clever discovery :p Could this be a good point to look at during rows, to make sure you arent going too far?

[Lisa~]

Karky,

I think you're describing the same thing Bill clarifies in his article:

Diagnosis Via Face Pull

In cases where the rotator cuff is known to be weak relative to the deltoid, the posterior deltoid can overtake the rotator cuff as the primary external rotator.

This will show up in the face pull as the humerus (upper arm bone) hyperabducts relative to the scapula. In other words, as you pull horizontally, the scapula stops moving and the upper arm bone continues to be pulled back along the horizontal plane. Rather than the upper arm bone and the scapula ending up in the same plane during the contracted phase of the face pull, the upper arm bone and scapula form an angle. The dead giveaway is a dent or a dimple that forms between the posterior deltoid and the infraspinatus.

If this is the case, your shoulder program would be better served by working on some isolated strengthening to the rotator.

[karky]

so, this means i should focus on more direct rotator cuff stuff? If a person has strong cuffs, and everything is alright in theire shoulder, will the thing i describe dont happen then? even if they try?

[jdghost]

Bill

If I use a wide grip when doing rows (e.g when doing t bar rows) and pull up to my face, will I minimize shoulder extension?

[jdghost]

Oh one more thing:

Are horizontal pullups ok when in context of OK exercises to offset strength imbalance from too much chest/pullups.

[da_sheep]

"The humerus stops moving when the scapula stop. this prevents excessive shoulder extension and wear n tear on the anterior structures."

What about horizontal pressing, should we stop the motion also at the point where the humeral head pushes forward?