Roll to the outside of my foot - JP Fitness Forums

UpNorth · 01-29-2007, 02:19 PM

I've noticed that I have a tendancy to roll to the outside of my left foot when I'm fatigued on certain exercises. It's most pronounced when I do step-ups both when the left foot is on the bench and I'm rising and on landing. I suspect I have some disfunction somewhere but I have no idea what tightness/weakness/compensatio n would cause this? Also, what can be done to improve it.

This has been a weakness for some time and has/does not cause any injury or discomfort (at least not yet). I was hoping that it would work itself out over time, and maybe it still will, but I feel like I've given it enough time (over 2 months) and I feel the need to be more proactive.

Finally, I have MM, I/O and a foam roller, all of which get plenty of use. Also I am currently working my way through NROL Hypertrophy I.

Thanks,
Jeff

bryanc · 01-29-2007, 02:46 PM

Two questions:

1) Have you ever sprained your ankle?

2) What do you mean when you say you're "rolling". Is it just momentary wobbling, or does the sole of your foot actually leave the floor and face inwards for a period of time during which you have no control to right it?

Could someone move this to the injury forum?

UpNorth · 01-29-2007, 05:07 PM

Sorry! I meant to put this in the injury forum.

1: I've sprained my right ankle but not the left.

2: By "rolling" I mean that when my weight is supported on the left foot it wants to naturally shift the weight to the outside edge. The shift is pronounced enough that the inside of the foot will come off the ground.

Also, I'm using a thin soled shoe with virtually no support or wedge (Puma H Street) if that is any help.

Thanks in advance.

LisaS · 01-29-2007, 06:27 PM

I'm curious (not that it makes any difference) - does it happen if you step-up to a same height hard surface (like a box) or just on the padded surface of the bench?

UConnJulie · 01-29-2007, 06:36 PM

And what is your knee doing when your foot rolls out? If it goes out too, which goes first ...

When you squat, what do your knees do when you are pushing back up to standing? ie do they wobble in or out?

UpNorth · 01-30-2007, 06:14 AM

Quote:

I'm curious (not that it makes any difference) - does it happen if you step-up to a same height hard surface (like a box) or just on the padded surface of the bench?

I haven't tried but I don't think it will matter since it also happens when I plant my foot on the step-down.

Quote:

And what is your knee doing when your foot rolls out? If it goes out too, which goes first ...

When you squat, what do your knees do when you are pushing back up to standing? ie do they wobble in or out?

When my foot rolls out the knee follows and likely shifts to the outside further than the foot -- how far out though I'm not sure. I'll need to check my knee position in a mirror next time I'm in the gym.

I'm very careful to keep my knees stable and pointing over the toes when doing squats. Some time ago I had issues with them buckling in, but I sorted that out long ago.

UConnJulie · 01-30-2007, 12:52 PM

Difficult to tell without physical examination, but it sounds like this is likely coming from your hips ... probably some weakness (which is more pronounced when fatigued) and also some tightness ... are you doing that hip stretch that Mike demos toward the end under the static stretches?

UpNorth · 01-31-2007, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UConnJulie

Difficult to tell without physical examination, but it sounds like this is likely coming from your hips ... probably some weakness (which is more pronounced when fatigued) and also some tightness ... are you doing that hip stretch that Mike demos toward the end under the static stretches?

Are you referring to the Warrior Lunge? The one where you hold your hands over your head and lunge forward? I'm not, but I do a walking lunge variation with my hands over my head, just not the static stretch. I don't have any difficulty with that but I also do the reverse variation where your back foot comes back at an angle (7 o'clock or 11 o'clock) behind the front foot. I think its called the Cross Overhead Reverse Lunge.

In that one I do have difficulty keeping my shin straight up and down when the left leg is forward. In fact, now that I think about it, it's the same motion/weakness that I've been describing on the step-ups.

UConnJulie · 01-31-2007, 06:39 AM

I meant this one ...

But if the other one is working the areas that are tight then that would be good to focus on ...

UpNorth · 01-31-2007, 07:27 AM

Thanks Julie!

I'll add it in to my routine and give it a shot and see if things improve.

bryanc · 01-31-2007, 10:12 AM

Hey Julie,

What part of his description made you think it was his hips?

I was thinking intrinsic ankle instability, myself; combined with fatiguing of ankle stabilizers in the repetitive step-up, step-down motion.

UConnJulie · 01-31-2007, 02:25 PM

Uhhh ... mostly just intuition ... a few things he said made me think hips ...
1. That his knees used to buckle in during squats and he has had to work at keeping them out. (ie hip weakness ... most likely glute medius)
2. That the knee goes outward when the ankle rolls ... if it were solely an ankle problem, the knee might buckle but wouldn't necessarily travel laterally.

Try doing a step up and letting the lead ankle invert ... it almost has to come from the hip.

It has been my clinical experience (12+ years) that in the absense of direct trauma, more movement dysfunction comes from the hip than just about anywhere else (with the exception of the scapula). Many low back issues can also be traced to the hips.

That's not to say that there might not be some ankle stuff going on too, but if the ankle gets "fixed" without "fixing" the hip, then the ankle stuff will recur.
Does that make any sense? (I'm a little scattered today!)

bryanc · 01-31-2007, 07:45 PM

Oh, I didn't visualize it that way at all. When you invert your ankle, your knee inevitably goes outwards, especially if your knee is bent. Albeit, your hip does externally rotate, but I'm not sure I'd chalk that up to hip dysfunction.

UConnJulie · 02-01-2007, 02:00 PM

Like I initially said, mostly intuition and clinical experience ... in the absense of direct trauma, the hip is more likely to be involved than the ankle ... and given his history of weak glute medius (the problem with his squat) ... I'd vote for hip any day of the week (without direct examination).

UpNorth · 02-02-2007, 05:53 AM

I have some additional information. This morning was the first workout with stepups since the post and it was a 5x5 lower-body day that ended with stepups, so I was good and fatigued for these.

I set up a bench in front of a mirror to get a good look at what was going on. It seems like I was mistaken -- The foot is following the knee not the other way around. I noticed that my left knee started to wobble a bit (left to right movemement of maybe 2-3" off center in each direction) before my foot wanted to roll to the outside. My workout partner said he didn't notice any knee movement during squats but those were first in the workout.

I hope that helps and I appreciate the time that has been spent on my issue. Thanks!

UConnJulie · 02-02-2007, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpNorth

I have some additional information. This morning was the first workout with stepups since the post and it was a 5x5 lower-body day that ended with stepups, so I was good and fatigued for these.

I set up a bench in front of a mirror to get a good look at what was going on. It seems like I was mistaken -- The foot is following the knee not the other way around. I noticed that my left knee started to wobble a bit (left to right movemement of maybe 2-3" off center in each direction) before my foot wanted to roll to the outside. My workout partner said he didn't notice any knee movement during squats but those were first in the workout.

I hope that helps and I appreciate the time that has been spent on my issue. Thanks!

In full weight-bearing it is incredibly difficult to invert (let your ankle roll out) as a result of fatigue because inversion is a supination movement and most of us are prone to pronation especially when fatigued.

The knee wobbling confirms for me that the loss of control is in your hip ... what kind of gluteal activation exercises are you doing as part of your warmup? (ie bird dog, etc)

This clamshell exercise is great for targeting glute medius and waking it up ... it's pretty basic, and I expect you will outgrow it fairly quickly ...

1. Lie on side, with hips at 45 degrees and knees at 90 degrees.

2. Keeping pelvis perpendicular to the floor, and heels together, raise the upper knee as high as possible, by turning out at the hip. Do not let your pelvis shift backwards during this ... keep it absolutely still.

3. Hold for 10 seconds, repeat 10 times each side.

UpNorth · 02-02-2007, 09:09 AM

Maybe it's just a strength/fatigue issue? I do quite a bit of glute activation stuff already (at least I think it's quite a bit). Here is a list of what I'm doing as a warm-up that includes at least some glute activation.

Bird Dogs
Single Leg Supine Bridge
Cross Overhead Reverse Lunge
Static lunge with hands overhead
Spidermans
Deep wide dropouts

Sometimes I'll add the rufus complex in as well.

Doing all of that stuff at my commercial gym gets me some looks already, so it won't be a problem to add the clamshell exercise as well.

Thanks again

UConnJulie · 02-03-2007, 10:05 AM

Jeff, for now add the clamshell ... and when you are doing any of the others, really concentrate on squeezing your glutes ... you'd be amazed at how you can really (subconsciously) avoid using them!!

UpNorth · 02-03-2007, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UConnJulie

Jeff, for now add the clamshell ... and when you are doing any of the others, really concentrate on squeezing your glutes ... you'd be amazed at how you can really (subconsciously) avoid using them!!

Will do. Thanks again!