Elbow and Wrist injury... - JP Fitness Forums

BillVick · 01-29-2007, 10:07 AM

1. I’ve had a recurring Medial Epicondylitis or golfers elbow injury for the last 5 years which I attribute to both heavy bag work for boxing and Karate forms.

2. I learned the hard way that my brain age and body age are different. I’m 68 and very active including competitive swimming, aggressive lifting, running, etc. Like a dummy I tried my Grandsons skate board and took a hard fall on the left side.

3. Both the outside of the left elbow, the left wrist and the muscle running down the top of the forearm. Its been three months and I’ve tried icing, massage and rest but the pain is still with me.

4. It varies from a dull ache to a very strong shooting pain when I try to swim or lift

5. Only when I try a motion like a curl or a chin up - neither of which I can now do.

6. Any lifting or turning of the palm creates a shooting pain from the elbow to the wrist

7. Nothing really. I’m taking three alleves a day, sleeping with a night wrist brace and only running or doing an elliptical. I can swim with closed fists.

8. No - it’s confined to my left arm

9. Lift, swim, I can’t even use my left arm to dry myself when taking a shower because of the pain.

10. I’m losing conditioning big time in my upper body and have stopped all lifting and swimming (with the exception of drills with closed fists).

11. Yes - several years ago when I was boxing and doing some heavy bag work.

12. It was getting better and all of the sudden its worse. I’m not aware of what caused the relapse.

bryanc · 01-29-2007, 11:40 AM

First off, is this a flare up of your medial epicondylitis, and if so, it should be on the medial aspect of your elbow--that is the side closest to your midline when you stand with your palms facing forward and your arms straight. The "outside" of your elbow is technically lateral from anatomical position (as described above).

Secondly, is this pain attributable to your fall from your grandson's skateboard?

I'm not getting a very clear picture of your injury, I think, because of a rather roundabout description to the questions you posted. You need to be very specific and detailed when it comes to what may be a possible overuse injury. What activities SPECIFICALLY cause sharp pains vs. dull ones. Do the sharp pains occur in all locations or specifically one more than the other? When did this particular episode of worsening begin and what circumstances surround it? Etc. Etc.

This may be more complicated than can be handled here too.

UConnJulie · 01-29-2007, 06:34 PM

BillVick, first of all, welcome to the forum! I hope you become a regular poster because we ALL can learn from your experience in being an older athlete ... I certainly hope to stay active well into my 60s and 70s!!
Second, if you can answer Bryan's questions, it is more likely we can help you. I have an additional question ... have you been seen by a medical professional for this? If so by whom and what was the treatment?
Thanks!
Julie

BillVick · 01-29-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryanc

Secondly, is this pain attributable to your fall from your grandson's skateboard?

Yes, when I fell I did a head over heels and landed on my left hand and arm. The pain was more generalized to the whole arm and after a month settled in the elbow, wrist and forearm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryanc

I'm not getting a very clear picture of your injury, I think, because of a rather roundabout description to the questions you posted. You need to be very specific and detailed when it comes to what may be a possible overuse injury. What activities SPECIFICALLY cause sharp pains vs. dull ones. Do the sharp pains occur in all locations or specifically one more than the other? When did this particular episode of worsening begin and what circumstances surround it? Etc. Etc.

Let me try to fill in the pieces Bryan. Dull pain occurs whenever I turn my palm over as an example if my left hand was palm down and I turned it counter clockwise the pain is dull. If I try to grasp something such as a door knob and turn it counter clockwise the pain is sharp. If I hold a towel in my lefthand and try to dry under my right arm after a shower the pain is very intense.

The sharp pain is in the inside of my wrist by the thumb and the muscle that runs along the top of the forarm. The pain in my elbow is duller than the wrist pain.

Lifting is out of the question and any lift such as a press, curl, pull causes sharp and intense pain as does swimming with my hands open. If I swim with closed fists I'm pain free but try doing 1,000 yards like that and you'll appreciate being able to grab the water.

I appreciate you help and if this is still not clear please let me know and I'll try to give you a better description.

BillVick · 01-29-2007, 08:38 PM

Thanks Julie - my Orthopedics guy gave me a series of three shots over a year (two years ago) of a steriod which really helped but the problem never went away. I learned I could do BB and DB curls fine but had to keep my palms flat. Chinups or pulldowns were also verbotten. I pretty much followed the Bill Philips Body For Life routine of a split liftring workout alternating upper and lower body and swam and ran between my lifting days or M - W - F lift and my workout runs about one hour and T Th Su run/swim. Runs typically 30 minutes and swims are about 1,500 yds give or take.

bryanc · 01-30-2007, 09:27 AM

So there are a few things that I would be concerned about--enough that I would recommend seeing a physician for a more thorough assessment. This isn't a run-of-the-mill injury and me not being there to assess your arm and wrist makes it difficult to narrow down the differential diagnosis.

But the things that come to mind are:

1) You've sustained an injury to the bone. This could a fracture, a partial fracture, a contusion, a stress fracture. Only an x-ray will be able to tell and at 3 months, with continuing pain, my concern is that you've injured your scaphoid, which is approximately in the area you describe on the thumb side of your wrist. Scaphoid fractures are incredibly tricky and can be challenging to treat, but if you walked into my (future) office and gave me that story, I'd want an x-ray pronto, and possibly a CT scan, depending on how the physical examination of your wrist went.

2) You've injured a nerve. This could be a nerve compression, or irritation as a result of your injury. Again, only an in-person exam can really differentiate between the two.

3) Unlikely, though possible, you've injured the tendon. And certainly, some of the symptoms you report are consistent with lateral epicondylitis. But seeing as you rank your elbow pain as being "less" of a priority than your wrist pain, this seems unlikely. Or perhaps you have two diagnoses.

Whatever the case is, you do not have a "benign" injury. The fact that you're swimming with closed fists is NOT normal adapation, nor does it actually make anything better (you're not moving towards increased function with this adaptation to your activity).

So, at the end of all the blabbering, the final point is that you need to see your Orthopaedics guy again.

BillVick · 01-30-2007, 10:13 AM

Thanks Bryan - I will and I'll post his findings and update here.

This is a great resource!!!

Bill

UConnJulie · 01-30-2007, 12:48 PM

BillVick, I tried to post to you earlier but got interrupted (by my nearly 2 year old) ... sorry!
I was thinking that it sounds like you could have injured your nerve as well ... I could describe some movements over the internet, but I agree with Bryan that it would be best to see your doc again ...
Just to clarify in my mind ... the golfer's elbow was a separate incident?
Other than injections, did you have any other treatment for this elbow injury? Physical therapy or anything else?