Have Squats Weakened My Knees?

[HailMary]

I dislocated both of my knees several years ago (at two different times) and have, since then, been trying to build up my leg strength a bit to combat further such incidents. I had previously been given a lot of advice from various forums that squats and deadlifts, despite what some people say, would actually help me strengthen that whole area and would help with the problem. So, for the past year (since I started lifting), I've been doing lots of full-body programs that include squats (ATG style) and deads.

Until today, I haven't had any problems with my knees. I stopped playing sports (except for some occasional running) and, despite some small pains and twinges at times, haven't experienced another dislocation. Tonight, however, this all changed. Standing in front of my bed, I turned just slightly and my knee cap slid out of place (sorry for the details) and then quickly right back into place. Thankfully, it didn't dislocate fully but it did hurt like hell. I'm now icing it a bit and trying not to put too much weight on it, though this is a big hassle.

This really bothers me, primarily because of how easily it dislocated. It forces me to realize, as well, that squats and deads don't seem to have helped me stabilize this area much at all and that my knees may be even more unstable than they were a year ago. Part of the problem is likely that I'm very unflexible and I may have to start stretching more. I'd like to get your guys' thoughts, though. More specifically, it would be great to know if I made a bad call by doing ATG squats and deads and, for those who know about this kind of stuff, any tips on how to proceed.


Thanks a lot,

HailMary

[M6P]

doing squats and other heavy excercises with your legs needs to stop. you have not focused on the problem and that is your knees not your quads and hamstrings. You need to work on your stabalizing and smaller muscle around your knee which is very easy to do.
* stand on one foot and balance yourself if easy to do then close your eyes.
*do seated calve raises in doing these make sure you get the full extension to calve muscle standing calve raises use a machine not a squat bar always get full extension
*also i want you to do a squat using body weight toes out 4 set of 12-15 if easy ad isometrics to the excercise
*do light quad extension machine and hamstring machine these excercises can help but light weight and 3/4 stes 15 reps
these excercises should be done three times a week a week let me know how it goes. do the weight excercises twice a week You need to stretch twice a day but try to stretch before going to bed i have found it helps you to sleep better

[Alcoholiday]

what did the original doctors tell you to do/avoid?

did you see a sport's therapist or someone who is knowledable of sports injuries?

how are calf raises going to help a problem with dislocated knees?

[M6P]

your calve muscle is not only there to make your lower leg look nice but it begins behind your knee. In doing calve raises with full extension not using alot of weight can strengthen muscle around his knee. Also make sure you do the different foot positions on your calve raises toes in out and foward. when flexing hold for a second then done

[Alcoholiday]

how do you know it's his calves that's weak and causing the dislocation?

[M6P]

i didnt say that it was his calves that were weak and causing dislocation what i said was this will help make that area stronger

[Alcoholiday]

so what if it makes it stronger? his knees keep dislocating, so why would stronger calf area make his knees not dislocate or help him at all?

It would be like me suggesting for him to do bicep curls. It will make his arms stronger, but it won't help his problem at all.

[M6P]

hail mary just try it and see what happens i have many years of experience and have helped people with other problems with the same method

[tasinquefield]

Something is going on with your biomechanics that is throwing your knee out of line. Could be any number of things - hip tightness, foot/ankle alignment issues, etc. I wouldn't think your quads/hams would be too weak since you have been doing squats (unless your form is off and not working the muscle much), but if you have other problems that aren't necessarily located around the knee, it can cause that kind of problem.

You might want to post a question over in the injuries/rehab area and see if Bill or one of the experts can give you a better idea.

[M6P]

how can it not be located around the knee when it is the knee that keeps slipping out of place. This is what i do day in day out i train people from professional athletes to little kids i have been in the game alot longer than you think i have

[M6P]

because you and alcoholiday are buddies does not mean i dont know what i am talking about nor my opion about something is wrong

[Lost Dog]

That sucks, man. Definately a little scary. Definately post over in the injuries section, though.

Don't kick yourself over this (might dislocate the knee... ). Miss 6 Pack's likely right about strengthening the surrounding areas, but the guys who frequent the injuries section can often ask you to perform a few tests to figure out where the weaknesses are, then tell you how to fix it.

I wouldn't do anything other than enjoy the break, until you hear back from some of those guys.

Miss 6 Pack, you may be spot on, but you're new, we don't know anything about you (credentials, experience, etc.) yet. Tell us your "story" when you've got some time. And, welcome aboard!

[gobbla]

do you do any single leg work? what about stretches? gotta agree with tasinque here. there's obviously something wrong. the thing to keep in mind is the knee is the symptom, not the problem. focusing on "strengthening" the knee may fix it, unless the problem is your hip, or ankle, or whatever. if you could pay a visit to a sports doctor they'd probably be able to help you out.

[Q.]

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

Miss 6 Pack, you may be spot on, but you're new, we don't know anything about you (credentials, experience, etc.) yet. Tell us your "story" when you've got some time. And, welcome aboard!

What he said! One of the topics thrown about quite a lot here is the number of trainers out there who may not be as good as they think they are. No fingers pointed at you but I think there's a general apprehension at this site about a person's qualifications until the person provides something for us to go by. Most people here are not new to training so they tend to question advice rather than just accepting advice as a newbie would.

Please don't be offended or defensive, just tell us more about yourself as LD suggested... and always expect questions!

[K-Court]

Yes, I have to agree with the others, Miss 6 pack. Alco wasn't being disrespectful or rude, he was just challenging you to explain your approach in order to understand it. While he may be a little blunt, that's just his nature. Not dealing with his questions and telling HailMary to "just do it" isn't going to fly. Like Q said, please dont' be offended and let us know where you're coming from. It's always great to have more experts around here. And also don't be offended if someone suggests a second opinion from another expert. That's how we all learn.

[Physioguy]

Do you have much of a teardrop (vastus medialis) muscle, just above and on the inside half of the thigh, just above the kneecap?

[ryan122185]

I would guess that you have extremely tight IT Bands and this is torqueing on your knee. Strengthen the quads, it sounds like your on the right track with ATG squats and Deads. But if you are stregnth training and not stretching you are going to make yourself tighter. So basically you need to work on stretching and strength training. Go to a good PT they will get you on a good stretching program.

Some good IT Band stretches can be done with a foam roller and with a tennis ball. Also a standing IT Band with legs crossed is effective. Most quad stretches like tucking one leg underneith you butt and lying back will hit the IT Band in addition to the Quad.

[Frank.S]

Sorry miss 6-pack. Leg extensions are a horrible idea in this application IMO. I would personally take a few weeks off of squatting (deadlifts would probally still be fine depending on your form.. if you 'squat' the weight up, maybe not). and do a whole lot of rehab work, maybe even see a specialist. Leg extensions put a hell of a lot of pressure on the knees, more then a squat I would imagine.

When you recover, I would consider droping atg squats and squatting powerlifting style, which for me seems easier on knees (I mangled up my right knee in a ski accident 2 years ago and PL style squats feel fine). Maybe even something like box squats for an extended period of time.

No im not certified in anything except basic sports medicine and kinesiology classes (both waste of time). But having knee problems in the past I thought I would put in my 2 cents.

Also.. do your feet point outwards? or inwards? This could be a huge part in this problem.

[tasinquefield]

Originally Posted by Miss 6 pack

how can it not be located around the knee when it is the knee that keeps slipping out of place. This is what i do day in day out i train people from professional athletes to little kids i have been in the game alot longer than you think i have

The knee is somewhat of a dumb joint - it essentially will do what the hips, feet and ankles tell it to. A biomechanical problem can cause the knee to have issues and the kneecap to move out of place - I used to have issues with my knees coming out of their tracks because my hips were messed up.

Btw, can you provide some proof of what you do? I don't see any certifications, no website, no real name. Almost all of the trainers here at least have something in their profiles, sig, etc. showing who they are. And considering how defensive you are, it is a little suspicious.