Back pains - JP Fitness Forums

BjsAust · 10-29-2006, 04:40 PM

Off and on for a couple of years now I've had back problems. At first I thought it was something in my hip or something but after the last time I hurt it I went to a physio and found out it was actually referred pain from my back. I forget exactly what, but basically a problem where I was irritating nerves or something between vertebrae (4 and 5 something?) in my lower back, attributed to lifting a bit heavy when my core wasnt supporting things as well as it should have (generally hurt doing deadlifts but also once squatting).

Anyway, this time round I've been working my weights up gradually and working on core exercises at the same time. I forgot about the stretching part which helped a lot last time, but started doing them also. I just moved my squats and deadlifts up last week, and was lifting them really easy, felt nice and light, good form, keeping my abs braced and all that. After the deadlift day though I gradually got more and more sore through the lower back (a couple hours driving, followed by a couple hours flying and then a couple hours in a bus didnt help). By the time I got home I felt much the same as I did when recovering from injuring myself.

Been stretching and applying heat, also did some of the rehab exercises I got shown and feeling almost pain free atm. Problem is, I'm not sure where to from here. I really want to get back under the bar, I'm just getting the weights up to where I want to be. One thing that has me nervous is the last couple of times I hurt myself I couldnt really feel anything bad before it happenned. Do I break from deads and squats and work on my core and flexibility. Do I leave the weight the same and just be very careful with form and such. I dont know. I'm making really good progress atm and dont want to stop, but by the same token an injury would set me back more than any kind of break :p. So I havnt had any actual pain while lifting, just sore creeping on afterwards.

1. When did the pain begin? Thursday
2. What were you doing at the time? Or did the pain come on gradually over time? Gradually got more sore after doing a workout including deadlifts and bent over rows.
3. Where, anatomically, is the pain? Lower back.
4. What does the pain feel like? Sharp? Dull? Aching? Stabbing? Shooting? Dull although sometimes can be sharper if I irritate it.
5. Is the pain constant, or intermittent, or only on certain motions? Constant, but worse if I twist or bend over sometimes.
6. What motions make your pain worse? Sometimes bending/twisting does.
7. What, if anything, makes your pain better? Stretching hammies/glutes helps.
8. Does your pain radiate to any other part of your body? hips.
9. What things could you do before, that you cannot do now because of your injury? Nothing but sometimes need to be careful.
10. What is your main concern regarding the pain and its consequences? That the pain becomes an injury. Feels similar to when I've injured myself before, but this time there was no sudden pain that brought it on.
11. Have you ever injured that part of your body before? If so, how? 3 times. First was deadlifting heavy after a few weeks break. 2nd and 3rd were squatting and deadlifting respectively while building up weight used after breaks (so a few weeks/months lifting putting weight up each time and then wham it would hit suddenly halfway through a lift).
12. Is your pain getting worse over time? And if so, how much worse over what time period? Better over time, but worried lifting again will make it worse.

To explain the movement stuff in there. I havnt had any real troubles during normal bending/twisting, but running around the backyard with the dogs and bending over and twisting and stuff hurt more than just walking around.

Bill Hartman · 10-30-2006, 06:52 PM

Lower back is not specific enough. It'a big area. I have an idea as to what's going on but I need better detail please. Gracias.

Bill

BjsAust · 10-30-2006, 08:55 PM

Hmm, not sure how to give more detail.

Sometimes the pain is felt fairly much directly on top of the hip bone on one side or the other (never both at once, but can change), fairly close to my side, but still at the back. As it gets better (like today) its more like a dull ache around my spine fairly much where a direct line from the top of each hip bone would intersect, maybe 1 verterbrae lower. If I press around here, its sore. When its been really bad in the past its sent lines of pain down the outside of my leg, making sitting for long periods of time almost unbearable (long car trips were really bad). Only once have I felt a slight pain down one leg this time.

Its almost pain free now, at times it is (although poking it is still tender). I'm not sure that pain free means healthy though. I was supposed to squat this morning but decided not to.'

Sorry thats not too specific, I dont know all the right terms and stuff. If this isnt good enough, let me know what info you're after and I'll try to find it out. I should be able to get to a physio next week, or Friday if thats the best option (interstate until Thursday this week).

Bill Hartman · 11-01-2006, 05:31 PM

Cross your legs "man style" (ankle on opposite thigh) and bend forward. Do you feel a pull in the place that hurts?

Bill

BjsAust · 11-02-2006, 04:00 PM

I think so. At first I thought it was just my glutes, but one side was much sorer than the other and pulled a lot more. The pain felt similar to the pain I get. Then again the pain is basically gone now.

BjsAust · 11-02-2006, 07:40 PM

I did a workout today and did squats with 80% of the weight I had been using. Felt fine. Little tender afterwards, especially if I stood tall and sucked my tummy in, but now ( a couple hours later) I'm feeling fine. Did the cross legs test again and I think it really was just tight/sore glutes. Still there, but the pain doesnt seem the same.

Maybe I recovered too fast :p.

I'm adding more work in for my abs/back, doing the stretching and rehab type core work and work the weights back up again slowly, unless of course you recommend something else.

UConnJulie · 11-04-2006, 02:54 PM

If your hips are "tight" then deads and squats and such will translate into more stress on your lower back. If you don't already have it, you might want to look into Magnificent Mobility and start some of the things Eric and Mike have in there to increase hip mobility. Also maybe some stuff on the ball ... supine hip extensions or ball bridge to strengthen the posterior core muscles ...

In general, does the back feel better AFTER a session on your belly propped up on your elbows?

BjsAust · 11-04-2006, 06:10 PM

Got magnificent mobility, but havnt been great about doing the exercises. Doing them more now (went back through it yesterday).

Quote:

Also maybe some stuff on the ball ... supine hip extensions or ball bridge to strengthen the posterior core muscles ...

Those are two of the 'rehab type core work' things I mention above. I try to do those once a day (5 times per side each for 30-60 secs).

In general my hips are definately "tight". Trying to work on that. Dont want to stop squats and deads altogether while I sort things out, but dont want to injure myself either.

Speaking of Magnificent Mobility, I was going through the exercises while watching the dvd, and the supine scorpion (lying on back, bringing one leg over and as far up the other side as possible) and on my left leg that sent pain shooting down my hip and all the way down the sides of my leg. Nothing else hurt, and after finishing the DVD I went back and tried that again and there was no pain at all. I'm guessing something I did later helped it.

I'll try lieing on my belly propped on my elbows, havnt tried that. I'm fairly stiff today, but whether thats because of the squats I did 2 days ago, or the fact that I did some GPP stuff and some hill sprints yesterday which I havnt done before I'm not sure.

Doing the mobility stuff once or twice a day, static stretching at least twice a day (hammies, glutes, quads and hip flexors), and the core work on the ball once every day or two. That and I've added hanging knee raises and figure eights holding dumbells above my head to the end of my workouts while lowering weights on deads and squats, and see how I go.

UConnJulie · 11-04-2006, 08:16 PM

Ben, I'll be interested to see what Bill has to say about this ... but my opinion is that if you KNOW your hips are tight and your core isn't as strong as it could be, then those are the likely culprits for your pain. The fact that the scorpion felt better after loosening other things up says to me that you need to do more of those things (a good way to figure out which thing helps is to try the scorpion after each other exercise - just once or twice to see if it is feeling better). Once you figure out which ones help, concentrate on those for a bit. If it were me, I would probably lay off deadlifts and squats for a while (remember that rest is HELPFUL in many instances) to allow the structures to fully heal while focusing a lot on the mobilty and core stuff along with some foam rolling. If you aren't already doing the hip stretch from the DVD ... it's actually a yoga position called "the pigeon" that is a good one and will stretch the muscle that Bill "tested" earlier (called the piriformis).
Good luck!

BjsAust · 11-05-2006, 02:22 PM

Yeah, there is that voice at the back of my head telling me just to stop for a while, its just that historically when I stop doing something I've tended to just stop lifting altogether. In about a week and a half I'm going away for a week, so I'm just hoping to keep things strong till then, and that will give it all a rest.

I've now done a full set of workouts and am basically pain free. Bit stiff and sore in mornings, but other than that the scorpion is the only time I've felt pain in the last week.

Cant remember what the hip stretch one is, but I thought the other day that rather than doing the same 10 stretches prior to stretching, workouts, and sprint workouts, I'll split the whole dvd into 3 different sets of work and use a different one before each activity. Means I should be doing everything on the DVD at least once every 2 days if not more.

BjsAust · 11-05-2006, 10:24 PM

Heres a touch of irony.

As mentioned in an attempt to get as much mobility work as possible I split all of the Magnificent Mobility exercises into 3 workouts to do at various different times. I started on one of them today and halfway through, doing Single Leg RDL, I got the sudden pain in my hip area thats what I've gotten when I've hurt my back previously.

So unlike the previous couple of weeks where I've just had aches reminiscent of after having hurt myself, I now have the same thing I've had when hurt myself before, and it wasnt done while lifting weights :p.

I'll take the hint and take a couple of weeks off deads and squats, keep up my stretching and core work, and strike single leg RDLs off my dynamic stretching for the time being.

Btw, doing that crossing legs man style and leaning foward does hurt around the hip/glute where I hurt myself, as does basically any bending foward.

UConnJulie · 11-06-2006, 05:28 AM

Try icing that whole area (buttocks and lower back), and spend up to 5 minutes on your belly propped up on your elbows and see if that helps.

Bill Hartman · 11-06-2006, 10:54 AM

Can't rule out a potential disc problem but it sounds like...

A. You're exceeding your available flexibility with your exercise technique and you're compensating

OR

B. You've got an alignment issue in your lumbar spine and or pelvis. The pain in your butt is most likely a piriformis spasm. You may be able to stretch your way out with random flexibility work, but I'm doubtful based on the frequency of recurrance.

Find a good manual therapist.

Bill

BjsAust · 11-06-2006, 04:26 PM

Thank you very much for your help Bill and Julie. I've made an appointment with a phsyio this afternoon who I felt was very good when I had some shoulder problems. I'll report back with what he thinks the problem is.

I'm leaning towards B. with your possibilities Bill. Even though my flexibility isnt what it should be, I think I'm still maintaining decent form, but things do feel a bit out of whack around my hip area.

BjsAust · 11-07-2006, 12:45 AM

So I just got back from seeing the physio.

The diagnosis was that I'd torn a facet joint (the lowest one), and that it was probably healing fine until I did the stretch and tore the healing tissue. Apparantly tearing a facet joint causes muscle spasms as well as some referred pain, so it all fits with what I've felt.

In short he gave me some different stretches to do, and I can probably get back into the weights in a couple of days, just need to avoid exercises with spinal flexion for a while longer than that (which I didnt think of at the time, but I presume means lay off the hanging leg raises?).