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I occasionally have enough lower back pain to slow me down. Oddly enough it does not bother me during weight lifting and other exercise. If I do feel pain careful attention to form makes it disappear.
For example, yesterday I did NROL Fatloss 2A and ran intervals afterward (after a short rest!). This morning I really felt staved up. It was about two hours later that I loosened up.
Are there any exercises or stretches that I could do just before I go to bed, if I wake up during the night, or in the morning? I sleep on my side, pillow under head. Any change there that might Help? Rob
Well I'm not Bill but here's some suggestions
-Sleep with a pillow between your knees
-Stay away from low back strecths, they actually have been shown in Stuart McGill's work to have negative consequences on the low back, instead focus on more mobility work ( Birddog, Cat Camel)
-It also wouldn't hurt to add some Glute max and Glute med work, with some soft-tissue work and strecthing on your psoas
- Stay away from any low back strecths if you wake in the middle of the night and any activity at all within the first hour of waking up. Your more or less taller in the morning(discs fill with fluid during the night) but within an hour of just waking around and performing your daily activities 90% of that fluid will no longer be there so your discs will "dehydrate". Spinal flexion during the first hour produces about 3 times the compression force as it does any other time throughout the day.
I found cat and camel, and birddog. Actually knew the first of these
Is strecth a misprint for stretch. I did see 'strecth' when I googled, but did not understand?
I do, as you no doubt surmised, dead lifts and squats, are those Glute max and med? I know they are but are they the sort you are talking about?
What is soft-tissue work and stretching of psoas. I also looked that up and saw what muscles they are.
Is there a standard book with these sorts of terms, or do I use a combination of asking and google. The only book on this sort of thing I have is NROL.
Rob- Sorry for the misprint with stretch . How do the deads and squats feel on your low back? For direct glute max work you want to intergrate alot of bridges, both legs are bent and you sqeeuze your glutes and press your pelvis to the ceiling. You can try different variations such as one leg in the air, both feet flat with your toes in the air. Also single leg squats are great. Generally the lower you go the more glute max activation there is
In terms of Glute med work, there's the hip hikes,basically your standing and allow one hip to fall and gently try to hike it back up. X-band or mini band walks, just wrap a band around your ankles and walk sideways.
As an added bonus any single leg squat variations will work both the glute max and glute med
Soft-tissuse work refers to ART, active release technique. If you do not have a qualified ART guy in your area just buy a foam roller and work on some areas (TFL). If you google Psoas stretch, you should find a good one
A good book for low back pain? Stuart McGill's Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobLL
I found cat and camel, and birddog. Actually knew the first of these
Is strecth a misprint for stretch. I did see 'strecth' when I googled, but did not understand?
I do, as you no doubt surmised, dead lifts and squats, are those Glute max and med? I know they are but are they the sort you are talking about?
What is soft-tissue work and stretching of psoas. I also looked that up and saw what muscles they are.
Is there a standard book with these sorts of terms, or do I use a combination of asking and google. The only book on this sort of thing I have is NROL.
The physio world seems to have moved very much towards focussing on the transverse abs for many lumbar back problems.
Trouble is they are not all that easy to exercise for many people with problems. Just doing the normal abs exercises doesn't cut it. You might need to hunt down some specific TA exercises. They are very specific about activating muscles in the right order and way, and involve breathing right.
The bird-dog is actually an advanced exercise for someone with weak TA and poor TA activation. It doesn't feel hard when you do it wrong. It's not just about lifting your arms and legs up. It's about tensing the TAs without them being superceded by the abs in general and keeping the hips really still etc.
This is just from personal experience and what I've been taught by physios, I'm no expert!
Squats and deadlift are not a problem, although I do make a point of keeping good form, otherwise I feel some pain. Over the last months I have moved from 60-90 pounds.
From NROL Fatloss 2a, I am doing Supine hip extension with leg curl, this is on a ball, no probs. FL2b, Bulgarian split squats are a real effort but no probs
ART, new to me, I will look up these. I tried to pillow between legs, as I suspected, any change in sleep routine will take a few nights to get used to. When I woke up rather than get right out of bed I did the (comic- non gym stretches) routine of moving around for a few minutes before I got up. It may have helped.
The physio world seems to have moved very much towards focussing on the transverse abs for many lumbar back problems.
Trouble is they are not all that easy to exercise for many people with problems. Just doing the normal abs exercises doesn't cut it. You might need to hunt down some specific TA exercises. They are very specific about activating muscles in the right order and way, and involve breathing right.
The bird-dog is actually an advanced exercise for someone with weak TA and poor TA activation. It doesn't feel hard when you do it wrong. It's not just about lifting your arms and legs up. It's about tensing the TAs without them being superceded by the abs in general and keeping the hips really still etc.
This is just from personal experience and what I've been taught by physios, I'm no expert!
Your physios are a tad behind the times. No one muscle is more important than any other. It depends on the activity in question. If you really are looking for a high level of TVA activation, the side bridge is superior with the added benefit of co-contraction of the obliques and the hip musculature.
Bird dogs are far from an advanced exercise as they are a progression. They are excellent for stimulating the spinal extensors with low spinal compression.
I occasionally have enough lower back pain to slow me down. Oddly enough it does not bother me during weight lifting and other exercise. If I do feel pain careful attention to form makes it disappear.
For example, yesterday I did NROL Fatloss 2A and ran intervals afterward (after a short rest!). This morning I really felt staved up. It was about two hours later that I loosened up.
Are there any exercises or stretches that I could do just before I go to bed, if I wake up during the night, or in the morning? I sleep on my side, pillow under head. Any change there that might Help? Rob
Where exactly is the pain (don't say lower back or you get no help. it's a big area...narrow it down. Example: on the spine belt high or on the left a couple inches from the spine below the belt)?
After what activities is your back pain the worst?
When it is bad, what positions or activities make it worse?
When it is not bad, what positions or activities reproduce any pain?
What correction do you make with your exercise technique that resolves the pain while working out?
Bill - I am going to observe carefully for a couple of day and then answer.
One quick answer, during squats and deadlifts, so long as I keep my stomach muscles tensed, and watch that my lower back maintains proper curve - no pain, and actually not much even if I don't. But I understand that even a little is nature's way of saying correct form.
Also pain normally shows up when I wake up I almost never have any sharp pain after exercise, sometimes/usually that all over achey pain that almost feels good. Rob
Squats and deadlift are not a problem, although I do make a point of keeping good form, otherwise I feel some pain. Over the last months I have moved from 60-90 pounds.
From NROL Fatloss 2a, I am doing Supine hip extension with leg curl, this is on a ball, no probs. FL2b, Bulgarian split squats are a real effort but no probs
ART, new to me, I will look up these. I tried to pillow between legs, as I suspected, any change in sleep routine will take a few nights to get used to. When I woke up rather than get right out of bed I did the (comic- non gym stretches) routine of moving around for a few minutes before I got up. It may have helped.
Your physios are a tad behind the times. No one muscle is more important than any other. It depends on the activity in question. If you really are looking for a high level of TVA activation, the side bridge is superior with the added benefit of co-contraction of the obliques and the hip musculature.
Bird dogs are far from an advanced exercise as they are a progression. They are excellent for stimulating the spinal extensors with low spinal compression.
Bill
I wasn't trying to give the impression of one muscle being more important than another. I'm just observing that in 10 years of back physio I have noticed a move towards more interest in the TA's. 10 years ago physios I visited were talking about Macenzie exercises and maybe some "neural stretches" and hamstrings. More recently they seem to be looking at and training the TA, amongst other muscles.
Re: Bird-dogs: clearly you know more about this than me. But my physio diagnosed weak TAs and poor TA activation and control amongst other problems and for the TAs first prescribed TA bracing with diaphramatic breathing, then the same with knee drops, then arm lifts on all fours (like BD's without the leg movement and only then onto BDs. She did this because I coudn't do the simpler one without hip movement and losing the control I had gained in the easier exercises. I simply could not to BDs to her satisfaction until recently.
Like I said, I am trying to figure out just where I hurt (when I do). Mornings are still the most likely time, I am using pillow. I still would like to get an encyclodic sort of book on weightlifting/ body. I assume TA are trans absominals, but aware that I should not jump to a conclusion.
My son, who works at staying in top notch shape, had some serious back injuries eventually requiring surgery. It helped only a little until he learned of a Physical Therapist who specializes in back problems. His real recovery began the day he saw her. She starts off with an 1 1/2 evaluation. While my back problems are not debilitating they are somewhat episodic every few months. I am considering seeing this Seattle person.
sore back in morning
. How do the deads and squats feel on your low back? For direct glute max work you want to intergrate alot of bridges, both legs are bent and you sqeeuze your glutes and press your pelvis to the ceiling. You can try different variations such as one leg in the air, both feet flat with your toes in the air. Also single leg squats are great. Generally the lower you go the more glute max activation there is
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