What's the skinny on DIPS!?!

[Q.]

I thought I read something that Bill wrote that said, "Dips... why?" or something like that. I've stopped doing them recently, at least full dips. What's the story? Are they more beneficial than they are harmful to shoulders?

By the way, Bill, where'd you go in Mexico? We're going back to Cozumel in three weeks.

[RedLefty]

Bill doesn't like them because of the risk/reward ratio of the move. There are many people out there who just can't do dips without hurting themselves eventually, due to genetics or just bad luck. The acromion on some people is "hooked" from the beginning, increasing the chances of impingement. For the rest of us, the acromion changes as we age, again possibly increasing the chance of impingement.

Bottom line: The risk/reward ratio is high because of the above shoulder issues. My ART guy here in Houston says he's often tempted to take a bunch of his business cards to the gym, and go up to every guy doing dips and say, "Here's my card. You'll need me soon; trust me."

[Q.]

Thanks! At 52, I think I'll just leave 'em alone from now on. There's plenty more stuff to do.

I appreciate it! You floating down in Houston???

[RedLefty]

Nah, I'm on the SW side of town and we're fine. My street, in particular, has awesome flood control and if we ever get even six inches of water in our house, it would mean many others are completely underwater.

Rain will slack off the rest of the week... then the real fun starts, Houston humidity!

Good move on laying off the dips; they're just not worth it IMO. Don't replace with bench dips, either, as those have the same potential issues.

[Deserve]

I think Bill was just referring to vertical dips and that changing the angle of the body changed the risk reward.

An interesting point I need to get Bill opinion on is that we are always describing exercises in terms of risk versus reward. Exercises are discussed in terms of high, medium and low risk. My experience in risk management has shown that unless there is some anchor to something quantifiable that one man's high risk can be another's low risk because of a number of different factors. The probability of occurrence is also highly subjective to the experience and degree of conservatism of those being polled unless there has been some benchmark performed that allows user to make apples-to-apples comparisons.

[Bill Hartman]

I don't dislike dips (used to love doing them ), but over time they do present a fairly high risk for injury. Many people have no business doing them and bench dips are a huge mistake for just about everyone.

Pulling your knees up and inclining the torso forward will reduce the degree of shoulder extension and reduce some of the strain. Problem is there's a lot activities, postures, and other exercises that can predispose shoulders to injury which is augmented by the dips.

Bill

[Q.]

THANKS BILL... but now you've created yet another question! I gave them up in favor of bench dips thinking that these, while a lot less challenging, were safer. Wrong, huh? Geez, maybe I should just stay in my rocker and watch the grass grow.

I don't have a specific purpose for doing either other than just trying to hit all the right muscles. CB said something recently about push, pull, squats and lunges being the basics. Taken out of context, I don't want to misrepresent him but I've been doing mostly push-ups, chins & rows, squats and lunges (with a little bit of DL, nothing like before). Is that well rounded enough? I'm also swimming 2-3X/wk and do HIIT on the bike-to-nowhere 2-3X/wk.

[Kaiser]

Egads! I've been doing dips for a while and didn't know this. I always incline my torso forward and don't go down past parallel, ever. Lately, I've been doing them on rings (what the benefit is to this, I don't know, but it sure is harder).

Was the potential danger of dips covered in the LR seminar? What are predisposing factors that would cause you to recommend that someone not do dips? TIA.

[Bill Hartman]

Dont' freak out. Like I said. I like 'em. They're just not for everyone.

Those with kyphosis, weak rotator cuffs, tight pec minors, poor scapular mobility, anterior shoulder capsule laxity, etc. will predispose you to potential repetitive trauma.

Keep the torso inclined, knees up, and limit the shoulder extension. Phase them in and out of your programs. As you cycle them, perform more shoulder friendly exercise to give them a break.

instability of the rings reduces prime mover output due to greater demands on the stabilizing muscles so they're harder.

Bill