Bill: Bench to row ratio?

[Chris Correia]

Bill:

This question came up in the Training subforum (again), and I volunteered to post it here, since I see it as related to injury prevention.

The initial question was what strength ratio parameters or range might one want to see in their bench versus their row (bent over was mentioned, but perhaps seated is a better comparision).

Of course, there are minimally the concerns of measuring strength, and of the volume and intensity comparison issues. For instance, I have read of mma trainers who won't have a trainee do any work on the bench until they can do 40 pushups, or until they can work with multiple sets of 20 pushups. Let's say the same trainee can only work with sets of 10 with horizontal pullups. Should their overall volume be the same? What other training considerations would there be?)

What comments or insight might you have on this general matter?

Thanks a bunch!

[Bill Hartman]

It's more important to look at scapular function in regard to shoulder health.

For instance, protraction and retraction strength should be a 1:1 ratio which implies that pushing strength should equal pulling strength. Problem with that is that scapular function for a bench and a row are not perfectly in opposition. However, for a gross gym measure it may not be a bad idea to train them to be relatively close.

You also need to look at scapular excursion. Is there sufficient upward vs downward rotation, posterior tilt vs anterior tilt, and protraction retraction? These measures, and scapular muscle strength, depend a lot on thoracic spine posture and mobility, posterior rotator cuff stiffness (maybe posterior capsule), and even hip strength.

A quick shoulder screen:

Apley's scratch test - AKA shoulder mobility from the functional movement screen (tests internal and external rotation)

Single leg squat - a weak single leg squat means potential contralateral shoulder issues

Wall or Stick test - gross assessment of spine posture. More kyphosis = greater potential for impingement due to decrease in posterior tilt of the scapula. Also distance of the acromion from the wall gives you an ball park estimate of coracoid muscle (biceps short head, coracobrachialis, and pec minor) stiffness.

Supine Shoulder flexion - gross measure of shoulder elevation which requires upward rotation of the scapula

Then consider strength issues of roughly one to one in each plane of movement.

Bill

[Chris Correia]

Thanks, Bill. I linked your reply over in the Training post.