Looking for veg protein / cut back on dairy

[smoddelm]

I've been virtually living on dairy for the past 2 years, at least as my primary protein source. I have been a vegetarian for 28 years and before I started working out about 4 years ago I was into the standard "legumes and grains" program. However, there's really no way not to get overloaded on carbs with that diet -- beans are your best protein source and they're still heavy on carbs. So I started packing in the cottage cheese, whey protein shakes (powder usually mixed with milk), etc. I have at least 3 glasses of 1% milk a day (all with whey or mixed protein) plus cottage cheese, plus other cheeses, plus whey powder -- you get the picture.

After my first colonoscopy (turned 50 last year) and at my most recent annual physical, I was told that my prostate is "slightly enlarged." I was not surprised to hear it, as I have been having a few symptoms -- up 5 x a night, etc. I have read a lot recently about the statistical link between dairy (particularly low fat dairy) and prostate problems. So I really want to cut back. I'm not sure if whey is linked or not, and I really don't know what to do with it besides mix it with milk even if the whey is ok.

I'm also trying to avoid soy - not altogether, but definitely not more than 1 or 2 x a week. A lot of conflicting information about it. I can't stand eggs unless they're more or less disguised in something.

I actually tried eating meat a few times several months ago - after 28 years! Just really found it too weird. So I'm looking for advice / suggestions. Any ideas?

[ParanoidAndroid]

can you do fish?

[smoddelm]

I sort of "moved" this (posted on the Diet, Nutrition, Supp Forum and was editing here to indicate same) but then I saw your reply. Sorry for having it in 2 places now.

Anyway, I don't do fish or any seafood. My wife thinks I'm nuts on that point.

[Aoife]

Have you looked into the various brands out there specifically marketed to veggies, some are even vegan. Most have pretty high protein, low fat, and the carb amount isn't horrible depending on what you go with.

Morningstar farms, Gardenburger, Amy's, Boca... that kind of thing.

There's also usually some decent info if you go look for vegan bodybuilding, but sometimes that's soy heavy depending on who's writing the article.

So what is your carb issue? Are you having issues such that they need to be avoided? I mean, if you're talking veggie, bean, and whole grain sources it's not like it's high gi ultra refined crap...

Wanting to be mainly vegan and be low carb and be avoiding soy isn't really an easy option.

[Lost Dog]

In the end, it comes down to calories in vs calories out. Macros effect the ratio, but you can manage your weight loss or gain by calories alone.

Judging by your avatar, you're pretty lean. Eat to get what protein you think you need and just take the carbs. Let the soy chips fall where they may (how come no one's laughing?).

In addition to soy and daily protein, there are pea, rice, and hemp proteins available for supplement purposes.

Do you eat seitan? It's a wheat gluten based food. I've never had it, but it seems that it's popular with vegans.

Do you have a link on the dairy/cancer link? Seems strange to me. Is it like the statistical link to heart disease and not flossing your teeth?

[smoddelm]

There's a ton of info available on the dairy / prostate link. Here's one article:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...4/ai_n14710370

Some studies show very strong correlations, others show weaker. The mechanism is not understood - some theories point to too much calcium. The interesting thing is the correlation is much higher for low- and non-fat dairy -- in fact, I think some studies showed no correlation for full-fat. But I'm also contending with borderline high cholesterol (overall 219, LDL 157, HDL 43), so I don't think it's time to start loading up on whole milk.

I haven't given seitan a try -- how much protein per "serving?"

Also, anybody have any ideas on making eggs palatable to a non-egg lover? I can stand eating a quiche, but there's the cheese, plus the saturated fat (butter or shortening) and flour in the crust. I can eat an omelette (with cheese) if I have have fried potatoes to eat with every bite, but I think I may as well pass on the eggs if I'm eating fried potatoes with them.

[Lost Dog]

The most commonly consumed dairy items were low-fat and whole milk, cheese, and ice cream, whereas cottage cheese, cream, and yogurt were generally eaten less than once a week.

So, these guys ate all the dairy that's typically associated with badness and skipped all the ones associated with goodness. Not that they are cut and dried good and bad, but really, what else were these guys eating? Doesn't say. Were they getting plenty of fiber, vegetables, etc. or were they cringing at that slice of tomato and iceberg on their burgers?

There may very well be a full dietary analysis, but it's not in this article.

I would think some vegetarian sites and resources would have better samplings based on your style of eating. I would guess that, percentage wise, vegetarians tend to eat healthier amounts of fruits, veggies, and fiber.

I'd be interested to read about the rates of prostate cancer in lacto/ovo vegetarians.

[smoddelm]

Yeah, in this case. But there have been a lot of studies. If you just do a web search on "prostate" and "dairy" you will come up with a month's worth of reading.

I was looking for another article I saw a while back that summarized several studies. One of the interesting ones was a study that tracked doctors who consumed dairy -- generally skim milk, presumably because they were doctors and therefore understood the coronary risks associated with saturated fat in whole milk. I believe that was one of the studies that specifically found that low-fat milk (not cheee, desserts, or other forms of dairy) was most highly correlated with prostate cancer.

I would also be curious about prostate cancer risks in lacto ovo vegetarians. But I don't think most LO vegetarians consume the amount of milk that I have been drinking.

BTW, I did a search on "prostate" and "whey" (should have done that before my initial post) and found some articles about studies suggesting that whey might actually protect against prostate issues. Now I've gotta find something other than milk to mix my whey with.

[smoddelm]

Originally Posted by Aoife

Morningstar farms, Gardenburger, Amy's, Boca... that kind of thing.

Are any of those made primarily with something other than soy? I have eaten a lot of Morningstar and Boca and I'm pretty sure those are soy-based.

[Lost Dog]

Are your trying to gain weight, lose fat, or just live?

[smoddelm]

Well, just like everyone else, I want to lose fat, gain weight (muscle only), and live forever. Seriously though, I would like to gain some muscle but I'm probably sabotaging myself in my eating because I sure don't want any more fat. I am about 14% BF right now -- measured w/ calipers by a personal trainer who supposedly knew what he was doing. His comment was that my BF was great - "for someone my age." Yipes! It seems like when I increase my caloric intake I start noticing it around my waist so fast I almost immediately back off. I certainly notice it on my waist way faster than I see gains where I actually want them to be.

I am doing resistance training 3 x a week (with a trainer who I think really knows what he's doing, but he's probably a little frustrated with my eating) and walking 2 x a week. My weight has held steady for the past 2 years, so either I am (a) slowly replacing fat with muscle, or (b) merely keeping even with the inevitable consequences of age. Seems like I should be getting more than (b) for the effort I am putting out.

BTW, not sure what you meant by "just live," but I generally do want to feel good, live longer, etc.

[Aoife]

Originally Posted by smoddelm

Are any of those made primarily with something other than soy? I have eaten a lot of Morningstar and Boca and I'm pretty sure those are soy-based.

Some are wheat gluten, some are soy protein, some are a blend. The ingredient list will tell you what it is.

I haven't given seitan a try -- how much protein per "serving?"

Depends on what it's in. Knowing how much protein is in it purely as it stands doesn't help much since you don't know how much a given product has in it.

but anyway...
http://www.pccnaturalmarkets.com/hea...ide/Seitan.htm

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by smoddelm

BTW, not sure what you meant by "just live," but I generally do want to feel good, live longer, etc.

I just hate to assume that someone wants to lose or gain weight. Some people are just trying to eat for health. They might be just fine with how they are.