Auto regulation: JP?

[BiggerThanYou]

I've been hearing JP talk about his success off of auto-regulation and Bill Hatmans workouts. Do you think you could post a sample workout of what has worked so well for you? I read through the article but I still can't quite grasp the concept. Any other input from anyone else would also be greatly appreciated.

[Jean-Paul]

For an example I will use my workout today.

Warm-up with Rufus complexes for 10-15 min.

One-arm rows - best 8 reps (85 lb ea)
Bench press - best 8 reps (225)
RDL's - Best 10 (135)
Lateral Raise - best 10 (25 ea)
Front squat - best 6 (185)

I do these in a not-so-strict circuit form, going from one exercise to the next until I can no longer complete any one set. RDLs were first to drop off on my fourth set, so then my sequence went from rows, to bench, to laterals to front squat. Next was laterals that dropped off, then front squats. It took my chest about 7 sets before I could not perform 8 perfect reps with the given weight. You see? You just work each one until you hit your drop-off, then you stop that exercise. Does that make sense?

Better get to bed before I start rambling.

[BiggerThanYou]

Hmm, I'm somewhat understand thins. How do you know what weight to use though?

[BiggerThanYou]

Nevermind, I got it. The site I was looking at had me confused. This seems like a very solid principle and I will give it a shot after I'm done with my last HST cycle.

[austintwo]

Here's a question that jumps out at me JP - doesn't this method naturally lead a person to focus on his strengths and neglect his weaknesses - i.e. the lifts that give out the soonest?

What, if any, rest periods do you use? It sounds like you're doing a circuit - i.e. no rest between lifts, and a short pause between circuits?

Thanks,

Pete

[Jean-Paul]

Austin,
When your primary movers are "done" what does that tell you? Its bascically your body's way of telling you that it has no more left to give. So what is doing the work then if you go past what your PMs are capable of handling safely? Using bench press as an example, your support muscles will then have to try to handle a load that they are not truly equipped to handle. Your nervous system knows what its doing, and this system basically teaches you to listen to it. You are not creating imbalances. Quite to the contrary actually. If my chest is capable of doing 6 sets of my "best 8" before I hit my drop off, and I only did 4 sets, then I would be under working my chest. If you underwork one part, and train to your drop-off on its antagonistic part, it seems that I would have greater risk of creating an imbalance in that situation.

In terms of rest between sets, I called this a "loose" circuit because I don't care if I have to wait on someone for a minute if they get in my way on my circuit. I don't strictly adhere to those "rules" because keeping my heart rate up is not my concern. The reason I do it this way is that my seperate parts get a full recovery while I am doing other body parts, so it is just more efficient use of my time. By the time I am back around to bench press, my chest has fully recovered and I am ready to slam out another round of my "best 8" reps.

That is about as technical as I get with it. For more detailed information we will have to get Bill Hartman on this thread because he is the one I learned it from.

[Kaiser]

Well, I'll ask the question then: how did you get your weights? By 'best 8s' are you referring to the amount of weight you could lift, with perfect form, for one set of 8 reps and then backing off of that some (like HST has you determine your best)?

[Bill Hartman]

The "best 8" is simply the most weight he can use for a set of 8 with good technique at that moment on that day. Sets then continue until you reach your drop-off which is predetermined based on how hard you intend to train and how long it will take to supercompensate/reconstruct by training at that intensity.

Bill

[Jean-Paul]

Bill, you bring up a good point that I haven't really asked you about yet. My schedule is so tight I can only do my weight workouts 3 days a week (MWF at 8am). I don't have a real clear grip on the whole "supercompensation" thing though. I remember the chart that you drew, and I understand the concept in general, but I don't know how to calculate it. For my own workout schedule there may not be much I can do about it, but I would like to understand it better for use with clients or when creating workout routines for others.

[Iceztiq]

& how do u determine wut workouts to choose & do on the workout days?

[Bill Hartman]

JP,

Read the supercompensation theory and two-factor model of training in Supertraining to gain an understanding.

Basically, the fatigue from one training session lasts about 1/3 as long as the fitness gained. The goal would then be to time your training such that fitness is maximized and fatigue effects have resolved.

If your loading parameters are consistent from one training session to the next, you need to determine ideal drop-offs to eliminate fatigue by the next training session. Your training journal will tell you whether you are optimizing fatigue/recovery. You can test yourself via trial and error. Keep in mind that when you go from Friday to Monday, drop-offs should be different as there is an extra day of rest.

Don't forget to track when you should be unloading.

Icetiq,

Exercise selection and loading parameters depend entirely on what your goals are.

Bill

[BiggerThanYou]

I've read a ton of articles on auto-regulation. The conclusion I've come to is that DB Hammer is full of it. He provides no backing for his claims. Where's the evidence? He took the simple, easy to understand principle of auto-regulation and over-complicated it to the maximum, and attempted to contrive a new set of workout principles that are so difficult to understand that even most seasoned trainers have difficulty sifting through the garbage he threw together. I believe in auto-regulation, but not this mess DB Hammer has constructed.

[David.W]

Can anyone tell me what the maximum waiting period between exercises can be? It sounds like to 'long of a wait' will work against the idea of autoregulation.

And how do you occupy the all different equipiment needed without pissing off fellow gym members?

(this is out of newbie curiosity and personal further education)

[BiggerThanYou]

I believe you are supposed to hit each exersize right after another (almost like a circuit), but you do not have to be too strict on this. As JP stated earlier, the idea here is not to keep your heartrate up, but to find your drop-offs. In DB's article I believe he mentions resting for about 3-10 minutes after you have completed all the exersizes, then starting the cycle again. That is about the sum of what I could actually understand from him.

[David.W]

And how do you occupy all different equipiment needed without pissing off fellow gym members...would it really make a major difference waiting 5 minutes to get back to an exercise?

[Clement]

Not to sound like an idiot here, but what do you guys mean when talking about "drop-offs" and how do you dertermine it?

[DKing]

Do a search in the training forum about Autoregulation or DB Hammer and it will take you to a couple good articles.

Danny

[Clement]

As suggested I did the search and read a couple of articles on the net which just confused me even more. Is this completed as a total body workout or do you, most, break it up as in chest, back, armss and so on. The need a "Auto Regulation for Dummies" book.

[DKing]

Actually I think that book might be coming out or something like it. I know Bill and Adam are working on something together.

I know JP uses a full body routine at least some of the time and that its often recommended. If you found the article by Kelly Bagget about the basics its really as easy as the concept is going to get. There are also a bunch of other posts here that outline the idea. Your best bet is to read as many of them as possible and ask specific questions.

Danny