I am a woman and have recently started weightlifting with a male friend. He wants me to lift a heavier capacity than I am comfortable with. I thought that the weight amount you choose should exhaust your muscles by your last rep. Is this correct or am I just being a baby? I want to get toned and defined, not bulky. Any suggestions? Do I lift the heavier weights with less reps or lighter weight and more reps?
I find that alot of women (and men for that matter) have their minds set that high reps and low weight is the only way to "tone" or "define." its refreshing that youre actually willing to acknowledge another way. anyway, i think most ppl on this board will tell you that it is most likely beyond your means to naturally become "bulky" or muscular in a masculine way. lifting weights when combined w/ an appropriate diet builds muscle in a pattern determined by your genetics. however, it is true that lifting heavy w/ a rep range between 4 and 10 will recruit more muscle fibers than using light weights and higher reps. of course the words "light" and "heavy" are relative terms for each individual, but if you dont push yourself you prob. wont make steady progress. in addition, its my belief that "toning" and "defining" are misleading as ppl use them - when you lose body fat, your muscles will be more visible. no amount of weight lifting can define a muscle if your body fat doesnt allow it to show. in short, lift heavy and eat clean (check out the nutrition forum) and youll see progress in no time . hope this helps and here is a site that might shed some more light.
I think we can answer your question easier if you could let us know a little bit about yourself. Most important would be your previous lifting experience and exactly what he's asking. (ie. I normally bench 65lbs for 10 reps and he wants me to bench 100lbs for 3 reps).
That being said, you mentioned that your boyfriend "wants me to lift a heavier capacity than I am comfortable with." If that means heavier than you can complete with good form, then yes you should to lower the weight.
I agree with JJselle's post and will add that by recruiting those additional muscle fibers (by lifting heavier weights) you will increase your body's metabolism as it works to repair the damage. This has the effect of increasing your fat loss (toning) and is more effective than high rep lifting in that regard.
Don't worry about "bulking" , if you search the web you will find a lot of good information that should dispel that fear. Here's another good site for information regarding women and weight training.
You should not go to faluire at all male or female... Use the RPE scale... 1-10. 10 being extremly hard. Your reps should be from 10-12 for hyprotrophy/strength 12-15 for muscular endurance RPE should range from 7-8 not a 9-10.
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In Health,
Silas S Chen Exercise Specialist @ MorganStanely Fitness Center Mid-town NYC
Originally posted by fitone: You should not go to faluire at all male or female...
I fully disagree with that statement. What are you basing this comment on? 5-1 reps are great for shocking the central nervous system. My best gains in lean mass come from lifting with a rep range below.
Warmup: 5 reps
Work sets: 5, 3, 3, 1, 1
I have log books covered in sweat that prove this system works.
Deadlift jumped 40 lbs in 4 weeks, Squat jumped 35lbs in 4 weeks, Bench went up 25lbs in 3 weeks...
Yeah I disagree with fitone too. I can relate to Newlife because I have experienced gains using low rep training.
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"When he was six, he believed that the moon overhead followed him. By nine, he deciphered the illusion, trading magic for fact, no trade-backs. So this is what it's like to be an adult? If he only knew now what he knew then."
Originally posted by JMR: He did say hypertrophy/strength, not pure strength increases.
Okay, but BF% stayed the same and I weight 15 lbs more now. Chest has at least 1.5-2 new inches of growth and my back is wider. So I assume they both increased.
I fully disagree with that statement. What are you basing this comment on? 5-1 reps are great for shocking the central nervous system. My best gains in lean mass come from lifting with a rep range below.
Warmup: 5 reps
Work sets: 5, 3, 3, 1, 1
Can you please some links or info please.
New life, do you think the 5,3,3,1,1 thing is good for women?
Everyone, how do you know how much weight you can handle? the reason I ask is because I want to lift more (I only use 8# db's right now and it takes a LOT of reps to get tired), but I don't have a workout buddy who will lift with me so that means no one to spot me or help with my form, and I can't afford a trainer (did 3 sessions and he is into the low weight/high reps thing anyway).
In my last program I had DB bench presses.. and was doing them at the end with 30 lbs DBs.. I was SO scared when they were above me.
There should be rope (chain) system where you tie the DBs so that they don't fall on you .. maybe we could "belay" the weights with our feet (does it show that I went indoor climbing?
If I was working out at home.. I'm sure I'd rig something up.. ok.. it would REALLY look like a S&M room.. but it would be secure! LOL
Here is something I like to give to all my clients, especially women: Helps to debunk many of the myths surrounding resistance training and women.
Quote:
High Reps vs. Low Reps for Fat Loss
A certain woman's goal is to simply lose some body fat and get "toned" (not big a bulky)....just enough to get "cut up". She has been under the assumption that high reps with low weight is the best way to achieve this goal.
Fat loss is going to, or should, come primarily from diet (as much as 80%) with the rest coming from cardio (primarily HIIT or interval training). Your weight training should be focused on getting strong, and keeping your muscle, not fat loss. Let the other 23 hours of the day take care of that.
Do not train with light weights. You'll just end up looking soft, as your muscles will not have, what is known as, good neurogenic or myogenic tone. Basically a measure of muscle hardness. Simply put, there are two types of muscle tone: myogenic and neurogenic. The first refers to your muscle tone at rest, the second refers to muscle tone that is expressed when movements occur. Lower reps increase the sensitivity of various motor neurons resulting in increased neurogenic tone. Myogenic tone is affected by the density of your muscles and is improved by stimulation of the contractile proteins myosin and actin. Higher rep ranges result in more sarcoplasmic (fluid) effects, which in turn yields a soft look and is temporary.
Light weights while in caloric deficit will likely also result in muscle loss, as your body, while attempting to adapt to a caloric deficit will try to 'slow down' and does so via various hormonal responses (ie leptin for example) as well as eliminating metabolically active tissue - muscle. If you don't need it, you'll lose it. You're not going to be building significant amounts of muscle in a caloric deficit. You can't build a house out of sweat - you need raw materials. However, what builds muscle is what keeps muscle, and while dieting for fat loss, you want to keep every last ounce you have. So, quite simply don't bother with these 20 rep sets. Train heavy and try to get/stay strong.
What about all these claims in magazines that high reps and long drawn out sessions of steady cardio is what burns the most fat?
Actually it's not a matter of what fuel is burned during exercise. That plays little role - hence why even though high intensity interval training uses a lower % of fat and a greater percentage of carbs DURING activity, it still results in greater energy loss.
The loss of muscle while on restricted calories and training 'light' is partially hormonal. Your body will always attempt to adapt to any change you throw at it - and this includes a caloric deficit. The more you deviate from your set point, the more your body will respond to bring you back. Hormones respond to OVER and UNDEREATING. On a diet catabolic hormones rise, promoting increased amino acid oxidation (protein breakdown). Anabolic hormones decrease (bad). Net protein accretion/retention decreases. Protein oxidation increases. Cell volume generally decreases, leptin production decreases, etc., etc. Our bodies are smart, very smart. In an attempt to 'slow down' to work at your reduced intake, it will try to do what it can to reduce whatever is metabolically active - muscle. So, specific to training. If you train light, you'll keep enough muscle to be able to continue to train 'light', or with higher reps, or whatever. But given this doesn't take a lot, from a relative and individual standpoint (ie. it takes more muscle to lift a weight that limits you to 8 reps, than it does to lift a weight that limits you to 20) you'll keep what you need to accomplish these generally 'easier' tasks.
The key to a lean, hard body is a nice balance between nutrition, cardio and low rep, heavy weight training. What builds muscle is what keeps muscle.
First of all, I should say that I despise the use of the word "tone".
Second of all, I actually cut/pasted it from another forum (as well as added a few tidbits of my own, but not much) and I believe it was originally written by Erik Ledin who is a friend of mine.
"Tone" is a four letter word and should be banned. It demeans the reason behind lifting weight: to gain and then maintain muscle.
Muscle is not bulky, but sleek and takes up less space than fat. Fat is bulky. A woman cannot and will never get as big as a man when it comes to drug free weight training. She can use many of the same programs; wave training, 8x3, 4x6, 5x5, max effort, dynamic, for example. She could try Olympic lifting, strongman(woman) training and she'd never, ever physically resemble a man.
That's the honest truth. Swear.
I believe what differentiates a woman's training from a man's would be volume. If a man's rep area for muscle gains would be 6-10, than a woman's would be 8-12, for example.
And since we're talkin' about a newbie here; as in, newbie to weight training, it's good to begin in the 8-12 rep range. You don't want to just go into the gym for the first time and begin performing singles for max effort. Why? Well, cuz you're not accustomed to the movements. Deadlifts, squats, bench and other exercises are just too new for a newbie's body.
Get use to working in full range (ROM) and correct form. Start with good habits. You're not training against the clock - take your time in learning the exercises. A weight where you can complete 8-clean reps, for example is a good weight to start with. And no, don't go to failure; once your form erodes, stop.
And that article is good, too (by Erik). That's a start. Erik.Is.Smart.
I've been training at a guy for 1 year. The trainer at my gym has me doing 2 x 15 of everything.. this summer I'll be doing NROL so going lower.. but I'd like to try lower reps sometimes before that..
Can I just do it once in a while to try?
for example :
If now in my routine I do I do squats at 2 x 15 x 145 lbs.. how much weight should I try for how many reps?
thanks alot for that post! My girlfriend says she wants to join a gym, and i told her if she wanted to do that, she should train propperly and none of that "pansy stuff" as i like to call it:P so ill be making her a routine.. looks like she will be lifting heavy:P Though ill have her lift light at first until she learns propper form ofcource
I've been training at a guy for 1 year. The trainer at my gym has me doing 2 x 15 of everything.. this summer I'll be doing NROL so going lower.. but I'd like to try lower reps sometimes before that..
Can I just do it once in a while to try?
for example :
If now in my routine I do I do squats at 2 x 15 x 145 lbs.. how much weight should I try for how many reps?
First of all. ALL you women reading this thread listen to Patricia. She is a true inspiration and a quality role model.
And most trainers suck donkey ass. I can say this cause I am a trainer and I am allowed to (although, I don't suck...haha) I have worked in enough gyms and have seen enough retarded things to say this with true conviction.
ANY trainer who has you doing high reps ALL the time is wasting your time and money. ANY trainer who has you doing the bulk of your training on the circuit machines and doing tons of cardio is an idiot and is wasting your money.
Squats using 145 lbs for 15 reps is VERY impressive. Just a simple question though: what is your depth like on those? I don't mean to come across as a jerk, but more often than not, what people consider a "squat" is more like a slight knee bend. However, with that being said, we have no way in knowing what weight you should be using for a given rep range. The 8-12 recommendation that Patricia advocated is one that I use with most of my female clients. The easiest way to explain it, is to pick a weight and if you can do more than 12 reps (with good form) it is too light. If you can't get to 8, it is too heavy. Stay within that rep range, till you can actually complete ALL sets up to 12 reps. Once that is accomplished, you then up the weight and start all over again.
For example: your bench press may look like this:
Week #1:
80x12
80x10
80x9
Week #2
80x12
80x12
80x10
Week #3
80x12
80x12
80x12
Week #4
85x10
85x8
85x8
Just a simple example, but I think you get the point. You HAVE to make sure you have a constant progression and use the overload principle in order to really get stronge, and in essence.....get leaner. Muscle weighs more than fat, but takes up close to 25% less space. Focus on getting stronger and you WILL lose inches (assuming a proper diet of course).
Last edited by Tony Gentilcore : 04-21-2006 at 10:52 AM.
so 8-12, for muscle size for women? if they want to get strong, i guess its exactly like with men, ive heard 80% or more of your 1RM is needed to build strenght? so a feemale should be doing the same thing?
Ive always heard so much weird stuff about women and weightlifting and it has got me thinking its different rules for them.. even though my common sence tells me its not:S its just so confusing:P
so 8-12, for muscle size for women? if they want to get strong, i guess its exactly like with men, ive heard 80% or more of your 1RM is needed to build strenght? so a feemale should be doing the same thing?
Ive always heard so much weird stuff about women and weightlifting and it has got me thinking its different rules for them.. even though my common sence tells me its not:S its just so confusing:P
Women generally need MORE volume than men. But in the grand scheme of things, I always tell my female clients that there is no reason why they can't train like a man. I hate using that phrase, but it's true. They need to get over the misconception that they are these delicate creatures that shouldn't be lifting heavy weights. It's a bunch of bullshit. It's awesome when I am working with a female client and they are using more weight than most guys and are usually 30-50 lbs LIGHTER than the guy. As far as what rep range to use, I generally NEVER go above 12. And there is no cookie-cutter approach it. So saying women should use 8-12, and men should use 5-8 or whatever is borderline pointless. If people just focused on going to the gym and training at a high(er) intensity (in terms of % of 1RM) then they will be well on their way. The 8-12 recommendation is just what seems to work "best" for most people. Not everyone, just most. The only way you will find out what works best for you is to experiment for yourself and not listening to a personal trainer that tells you that using 15-20 reps is the best way to get toned. If he/she does say that.....drop kick them. And then send me a video of it.
thanks for that.. hmm.. 8-12, i always heard that was for size? and that for strenght you should be at 80% or more of 1rm.. which i have heard for most people (including me) is at about 8 reps.. yeah i know, it is within that rep range, but still, only by 1.
well, thanks alot, see, my girlfriend has a posture problem, and ive heard you can fix that by working the right muscles..
thanks for that.. hmm.. 8-12, i always heard that was for size? and that for strenght you should be at 80% or more of 1rm.. which i have heard for most people (including me) is at about 8 reps.. yeah i know, it is within that rep range, but still, only by 1.
well, thanks alot, see, my girlfriend has a posture problem, and ive heard you can fix that by working the right muscles..
Again, it's just a suggestion. For strengh alone, yes.....one would want to work with low(er) rep ranges as strength is a more a function of CNS recruitment (motor firing, # of motor units recruited, rate coding, etc). 80% for most people is ~8, and in all actuality one would want to be training above 90% for strength gains, but that is a moot point for the time being.
If your girlfriend has a posture problem, than I would highly suggest she get someone to assess it. For the most part, I can almost guarantee she needs more scapular work, more glute activation work, more core work, etc. Posture issues usually transpire from horrible program design and everyday life in general. Meaning, yes you CAN fix postural problems in the gym, but that is only one hour of "fixing." There are still 23 more hours in the day to mess it up. Alot of issues with posture deal with breaking motor patterns that promote horrible posture (ie: slouching at the computer, hunched shoulders when walking, sleeping the wrong way, not maintaining a neutral spine when training.....amongst others). It does no good to fix it, if she is doing other things throughout the day that perturbes poor motor patterns, know what I mean?
yeah i know what you mean. I just heard that working out can make your back muscles natrually draw the shoulders more back and stuff like that, is that true? she went to a doctor about headaces, and the doctor said it could be from bad posture and just that she should try to not slouch etc.
Squats using 145 lbs for 15 reps is VERY impressive. Just a simple question though: what is your depth like on those? I don't mean to come across as a jerk, but more often than not, what people consider a "squat" is more like a slight knee bend.
I go 'til the top of my thighs are parrallel to the ground.
Patricia says " If a man's rep area for muscle gains would be 6-10, than a woman's would be 8-12, for example. " .. I don't want to "gain muscles" nescesairly..
and
Quote:
The only way you will find out what works best for you is to experiment for yourself and not listening to a personal trainer that tells you that using 15-20 reps is the best way to get toned
humm I never talked about getting toned.. I train mostly for endurance in xc-skiing and backpacking..
Quote:
However, with that being said, we have no way in knowing what weight you should be using for a given rep range.
THANKS! knowing that I'm not supposed to know that already helps me alot! I thought I was just missing some magic forumal.
I'll try sometime the 6 reps.. I'm curious.. and find out for myself.. (BTW he's not my "personal" trainer.. just the trainer who's does my routines.. the rest is up to me.)
. hope this helps and here is a site that might shed some more light.
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