What Have Been Your Best Marketing Strageties?

[Chris Correia]

Originally Posted by Jean-Paul

I was a sole proprietor for the first 5 years I was in business. It is fine, but you get much better tax advantages being incorporated, plus your personal assets are protected by the corporate veil if your business tanks. In other words, if your business closes with you owing money, they can't come after your house.

S-corp is easy if you are going to be the sole owner. I'm set up as an LLC, primarily because it makes it easy for me to take on investors, which when I first incorporated, I needed. I had investors buy in, and I bought it back from them over time (with interest of course). Once I had paid them all off completely, I gave my wife 1% so I could maintain LLC status in case I needed to raise more money later. It's a lot easier sometimes than going to banks, or in conjunction with going to banks.

LLC also has a very cut and dry tax code. I pay an annual "franchise tax" which is pretty low, and other than that I just have to keep up with my 941's. DO NOT fall behind on your 941's!

S-corp is the way to go if you are basically going to be a one-man operation, like if you were independent, working out of several clubs, of if you owned a small gym.

EDIT: I realized I didn't read this entire thread, so this info is a bit redundant; it looks like GQ got some similar info. But, here goes anyway.


JP, I'm not really sure what you mean by your interchanging use of the terms LLC and S corp.

I'm set up as a Limited Liability Company, which is NOT a corporation, S or C. A corporation, S or C, is a distinctly different type of entity, both in terms of operations and taxation. I suppose it could be different in Arkansas, but by now, the feds/IRS recognize LLC's as a distinct type of business entity, separate from being a corporation.

The idea of being an LLC is that it offers protection of personal assets (Limited Liability), but isn't really more complicated than being a sole proprietor. You can be a sole owner of an LLC and then just file a schedule C along with your regular income taxes, like a sole proprietor (which is what I do). As an LLC, you do have to get a Federal tax ID number (free and easy, over the telephone), rather than just using your social security number.

As you noted, an LLC can also be set up with multiple owners, and they can each have different stakes in the company, more akin to a partnership than shareholders.

If you don't need to be incorporated or won't really experience any significant tax advantages by doing so (and there might even be disadvantages, depending on level of income), then the LLC is the way to go. And it's a lot simpler to maintain and report than formally incorporating as a corporation, even a S corp. In Minnesota, it's essentially one form, and a second one for an assumed name, if you want to do business under a a different name or names. But it is NOT the same as incorporating as an S corp.

I may be incorporating for potential tax advantages if I expand my business in some ways I'm exploring. But, right now, I am better off just being an LLC and it's really no more complicated than being a sole proprietor, aside from annual business registration.

GQ, just do some searches online for info on this. A good place to look is your state's office, whatever it might be called, that oversees business filings. In Minnesota, it's the Secretary of State's office.

Also, NOLO press has lots of good publications about such matters. Some of their info may be online, but I bet your local library also has several titles, since they are a recognized standard for info on legal and business matters for do it yourself-ers.

As far as chamber of commerce membership, you can join as an individual or sole owner as long you are doing some type of business. You can even just join as you, I think.

Also, check you any local chapters of BNI, Business Networking International.

I've been a Chamber member (still am) and it's cheap where my business is. In some places, it can cost a bit to go to lots of events. I joined BNI last year, and it's working out really well for me, since it's specifically oriented toward networking and getting more business, much more so that many chambers of commerce, I bet.

For martial arts, networking, speaking and word of mouth are without a doubt the best ways to go, and happen to be very cost effective. Print ads are a complete waste of money.

[Jean-Paul]

Chris, you just taught me more than I ever knew about LLC. As I mentioned above, I don't really want to get into all that... I just hire someone who finds out what I want and takes care of everything.

I know that as a member of an LLC that there is no corporate structure (as in president and so on)... owners are merely "members" of the LLC. However, I did think it was a limited liability corporation, not company.

I know that the way I'm set up is ideal for taking on investors, which is an important part of what wanted.

As of Thursday, I will only own 51% of JP Fitness LLC... We have already signed the agreements, but we all sit down and close this week. I'm pretty excited about it.

[Leigh P.]

To the original question...

Results.

My business is literally 90% referral.

I had a yellow page ad that cost me 2000 bucks and I made ZERO clients from it.

I had a client I trained for free to test out a training program and from that I landed 3 clients and from 1 of them 2 more clients.

So what was the better investment? People.

[Chris Correia]

Originally Posted by Leigh P.

To the original question...

Results.

My business is literally 90% referral.

I had a yellow page ad that cost me 2000 bucks and I made ZERO clients from it.

I had a client I trained for free to test out a training program and from that I landed 3 clients and from 1 of them 2 more clients.

So what was the better investment? People.

Bingo!

I'm training two members of my BNI club for free and I'm already getting several inquiries from people they've talked to about their experience.

Of course, I still have that damn yellow pages ad . . .

JP: Congrats on whatever the change is.

[lany]

Originally Posted by Chris Correia

Bingo!

I'm training two members of my BNI club for free and I'm already getting several inquiries from people they've talked to about their experience.

Of course, I still have that damn yellow pages ad . . .

JP: Congrats on whatever the change is.

Chris - can you please expand a little more on the BNI club? I've looked into it, but was turned off because of what seemed to be mandatory attendance and lots of formality. (I'm not lazy, I just have two little ones so my sick days are a little higher than they are for others) Also, it seems like referrals were a little forced but that could just be my perception. How long have you been a member? What are the pros/cons you see so far? Thanks!

[Chris Correia]

Originally Posted by lany

Chris - can you please expand a little more on the BNI club? I've looked into it, but was turned off because of what seemed to be mandatory attendance and lots of formality. (I'm not lazy, I just have two little ones so my sick days are a little higher than they are for others) Also, it seems like referrals were a little forced but that could just be my perception. How long have you been a member? What are the pros/cons you see so far? Thanks!

BNI is a unique type of club, and I'd venuture to say each chapter probably has it's own personality or flavor, although they all follow the same structure and process. Members from other chapters who have visited us always comment on how friendly and fun our group is. So, I might have it a bit lucky, but I think any chapter can be useful (and one can always start a new chapeter!).

I also see it as sowing seeds, and if one if planning on joining it, or using it, then one should plan on two years minimum. I think it is not at all unusual to get no paying referrals for a year. So, it's sowing seeds for later harverst.

The good thing about it is that it is specifically oriented toward getting referrals. Chambers of Commerce are not really oriented to that, and although they offer social/networking opportunities, you have to figure out how to make that work. Our local Chamber's networking/social events are very social and very clique-y and hard to break into, IMO. Not being a local boy in a small city of 11,000 people puts me on the outside; everybody else knows each other too well and seem to inadvertently shut others out.

I'd been invited to BNI as a visitor by a couple of fellow chamber of commerce members who talked with me about it and convinced me to attend a visitor day. Between me not being a local boy, and thus not knowing people, and taekwondo being a non-mainstream activity (versus hockey or gymnastics or dance), I realized it could be a great way to, first, get known, and known as a normal guy, not some karate-dude, and second, to get out the message that taekwondo training is a viable alternative for people of all ages.

I'm just nearing the end of my first year, and still have not gotten one paying referral, which isn't all that unusual. However, rather than bail, I see the first year as sowing seeds and the future as the harvest. It occurred to me just a bit ago that I needed to get some of my "salespeople" (members) involved at any cost to break down some barriers, to understand the value, and then get help spreading word about that. So, I threw out the offer for free training for the first two or three people who would start and commit to a year. I really think that will pay off in work of mouth return.

I also just recently realized that everyone needed some understanding, so I've invited all members (40+ people) to at least come observe a class, and preferably take part in one, so they see what it is about and can talk to others intelligently and with some experience.

Well, that's more than you wanted or needed, perhaps. IMO, it definitely is a tool you can use. Lots of tools can get the job done, but in the overall scheme of things, I think if you commit to BNI and really try to use it well (rather than just try to do the minimum and expect referrals), it will work.

[Jean-Paul]

I'm not sure what BNI stands for... I presume some sort of network group. I am a member of a Chamber of Commerce leads group that is VERY active about leads, and even tracks the amount of money people refer or receive from referrals. I managed to get into the most popular one of the groups. I don't personally attend that one... I dispatch my general manager to that one, although I did attend once.

The group that I am most heavily involved in is the Little Rock Executive's Association. It was very difficult to get into this group, but it has been EXTREMELY lucrative. We meet for breakfast every Tuesday and we have open houses every other Tuesday evening.

Attendance really is mandatory. If you miss too many meetings or open houses you get booted out, and there are many other businesses clamoring to get in at the first opening.

We have about 110 members, and they are probably the most influential people in the city/state. We have one person from each industry, and we get the creme of the crop. We have the top commercial builder in the state, the top home builder, the president of the biggest local bank, CEO of one of the largest hospitals, the owner of one of the top car dealerships, the owner of one of the hottest health clubs in town ... you get the picture.

As Chris mentioned with his experience, the first year I didn't make a ton of money off of it. Maybe a few thousand or so. Now I'm doing that every month with all the people from this group. My boot camp is a hot item. People either join it or send their kids/spouses to it.

The biggest payoff isn't just the individuals from the groups though. They all head major companies, and they give me the opportunity to come talk to their staff, and THAT is where you get your big payoff.

The thing you want to do no matter what is to get in front of as many people as you can. Even if they don't come to you right away, you are sowing seeds for future clients. You will be the first person they think of when they decide to do something about it.

[Chris Correia]

JP's example about the Chamber of Commerce is very valid: you have to visit, or otherwise find out/talk with someone, about the opportunities, possibilities and expectations in any given club or organization. It sounds like his local Chamber is much more intentional about networking opportunities.

JP, BNI is Business Networking International. It's an international organization with local chapters whose sole intention is learning about each others' business and trying to send business to your fellow club members. Like your Executive group, a chapter only accepts one person from a given profession. I started off as the token martial arts guy, but now after several good testimonials and other actions to raise the value of my stock, so to speak, by trying to help others and serve the club, many members of the club refer to me as Master Chris with sincere respect of the title and accomplishment.

I don't care about that, per se, but I mention it to raise the point of earning trust and respect over time. So, now I'm the owner of the hottest (and only, which helps ) martial arts studio in town.

Being able and willing to refer business to others, and have them refer to you, as with a Chamber or your Executive's group, only happens with time, understanding and, most importantly, trust. Also, I have come to really appreciate that one has to give before they get, in any aspect of life, including business. My training some people for free is part of that being willing to give.

I forgot to mention earlier about the BNI membership requirement to answer a question asked of me. The requirement is to not exceed three misses in a semester, which is half a year. However, you can have someone else -- not a member who is also attending -- fill in for you. There are spouses, colleagues, and BNI members from other clubs who are generally willing to fill in when needed.

Is this horse dead yet?

[Jean-Paul]

Is this horse dead yet?

Not even close! We're just getting warmed up!

[lany]

Originally Posted by Chris Correia

Is this horse dead yet?

Thanks Chris and JP! I could talk about this stuff all day. Actually I do and my poor husband usually suffers so you guys are providing a little relief for him by giving me another outlet. Small business marketing is so fascinating yet so darn frustrating at times!

[Chris Correia]

Originally Posted by lany

Chris - can you please expand a little more on the BNI club? I've looked into it, but was turned off because of what seemed to be mandatory attendance and lots of formality. (I'm not lazy, I just have two little ones so my sick days are a little higher than they are for others) Also, it seems like referrals were a little forced but that could just be my perception. How long have you been a member? What are the pros/cons you see so far? Thanks!

I forgot to comment on a couple of your questions.

First, I really want to affirm that they dynamic may vary by club, so visit and visit again.

Second, yes referrals are perhaps forced a bit, particularly at first. (If I interpret what you mean by that correctly.) However, that is the purpose of the club. Most initial referrals come from within the club. After some time and trust, then more referrals come from outside, and, eventually, third hand referrals (people from outside the club telling others -- natural word of mouth, I suppose). This is viewed as a longer term process.

So, things are pushed/forced some, but it is very oriented to just that: making and getting referrals, and QUALITY referrals. There is training to help you develop your weekly commercial/presentation so that it helps/leads people to more easily think of referrals for you. They really do have the process worked out pretty well, and I understand why, when people or clubs follow it, that it works, and how if people don't follow it, things don't work out.

I think it's been quite well developed as an effective process, but it is it's own particular process/tool, so it can seem a bit odd or forced until you get into it; then it becomes more natural.

The pros:
1. A specific, proven process for presenting your business and getting referrals (over time)
2. Because of that particular process, good training for thinking about your business, what it offers, whom you target, and how to present that information.
3. The specific intent of coming to a meeting for the purpose of giving and getting referrals; forced or not, there are not many other venues where that is the purpose. The formality/structure reinforces that, and helps ensure that.
4. There is only one person from each profession (although those are sliced a bit thinly at times, so there can be several fitness categories, such a personal training services, fitness club/facility, yoga, martial arts, etc).

Cons
1. It's not a quick fix. I think you just have to plan on doing it, like joining the Chamber every year, or putting in your yellow pages ad each year.
2. Depending on the club and it's members, people may be more or less inclined to work hard for you. But, that weeds itself out over time, I think. People who expect to just get and want more and are disappointed will drop out.

Does that cover it for now? My brain is only slowly coming up. That's done before I even look at the morning paper or finish my first cup of coffee.

[Isaac Wilkins]

JP,

I've long known the value of public speaking and have had a lot of success with it when it's come my way. However, that's the problem. When it's come my way. I'm really having a hard time figuring out how to "get in" with some corporations. I'd love to do lunch-and-learns, weight management programs, corporate bootcamps, any one or all of those activities. I think they'd be successful and lucrative.

So I guess I'm asking: How does one get started?

[Chris Correia]

Originally Posted by Isaac Wilkins

JP,

I've long known the value of public speaking and have had a lot of success with it when it's come my way. However, that's the problem. When it's come my way. I'm really having a hard time figuring out how to "get in" with some corporations. I'd love to do lunch-and-learns, weight management programs, corporate bootcamps, any one or all of those activities. I think they'd be successful and lucrative.

So I guess I'm asking: How does one get started?

Start with civic clubs, such as Kiwanis, Lions, Rotary, Optimists. They usually need speakers. From there, you will be exposed to those members, who are business people in different sized businesses. Tell them you'd be happy to speak to their employees. Better yet, join one of the clubs and serve the club and the community. That will do more for your reputation than any good presentation.

[Jean-Paul]

I'm pretty brazen I guess. If I don't know someone, I will just call the HR department and convince them that they NEED what I have to say. Maybe I'm just so convinced of it myself that I infect them with my sense of urgency, and I usually get them to book me at the earliest possible opportunity.

Do a little research on each company you want to approach. Write a bio on yourself and email it to them, then call a week or two later. They won't remember the email, but they'll be familiar with your name, and will be too embarrassed to say that they can't remember where they heard of you, so they will just say, "oh, I've heard of you!"

Or find out who their receptionists are by name... Be playful, friendly, complimentary. The key to any exec is their support staff. They can make you or break you. Get on their good side, and you get the keys to the kingdom, because they have the boss's ear.

People want to feel important. If you present yourself as an important person with crucial knowledge to impart, you can make some progress. But if as that important person you pay close attention to them and find out something neat about them, then let them talk about it for a bit, they will eat out of your hands!

Also, don't just ask once and drop it. Drop them some mail over the month(s), and stay in touch. Build the relationship. Maybe you will meet some of these people at Chamber meetings with a couple of drinks in them. Just stay on their radar and try again later.

Get someone with a professional sounding voice (like a client or your wife) to call as your booking agent/assistant to call on your behalf.

Send them a press kit with any articles you've written, a link to your web site, and clippings of articles written about you.

Do some youtube demos and make sure that those are featured prominently on your site. If they see you in action they can picture you in front of their workforce.

Hell, make a list of a couple of companies and their phone numbers. I will call one (with you secretly on the line on a 3-way call) so you can hear how I do it.

It's not all that hard... All you have to do is lay out your course of action and follow it. Make a commitment to call at least 3-5 companies a day for a month. You CAN'T miss on all of them.