How you say something matters. It doesn't matter if its face-to-face, online, or in an letter - it matters, especially if you are a professional of any sort. And I am going to go out on a limb and say it probably matters more on a forums like this because you never know who is looking at you giving you their money as a potential client.
The above statement, which I made in the Adrenal Fatigue thread, along with other stuff I have seen has made me think a lot about the communication in the fitness biz and prompted me to post in this section. My hope in doing this is to 1) make fitness professionals aware of how they can communicate information more effectively, 2) make fitness professionals aware of how various forms of communication can affect their own business, and 3) give a back a little to the folks who have helped me on my fitness journey.
A little about me, I've got a BS in English with an emphasis in Rhetoric and Professional Communication from Iowa State and I did graduate work at University of Arkansas at Little Rock in Technical and Expository Writing. I've worked in various industries over the past few years including medical, non-profit, defense, and Oil and Gas. And I walk the line in terms of designing manuals and materials for traditional media and doing web sites and online help.
__________________ It all starts with the mind, but the thoughts, the intention aren't enough. Action needs to come next. Dream it, believe it, plan it, execute it, celebrate it. - Wendy
So definitely true. And often people don't really even see where their flaws are. Being clear in communication, presenting yourself as you want to be seen, helping others to really understand what you're asking of them/telling them... it's important.
One of the best ways to get your point across is to make people WANT to hear what you have to say, regardless of what it is you're saying. Whether or not they believe you/buy into it is another thing entirely, but an effective communicator gets people to at least LISTEN... rather than shut down and take nothing from the presentation.
Effectiveness is key, and I think too many people often don't understand the importance of clear, effective communication. Often, people are too busy trying to talk, rather than communicate.
I mentioned in the last post that I think how you present yourself and information online matters the most especially when you participate in a forum like this one. The reason - you never know when a member of a board like this is going to want to hire you to train them.
Quote:
The Scenario:
A member of a board you participate on has decided that she wants to ramp up her training a bit and go to the next level. She's narrowed her choice between you and two other trainers. This member knows that you're a knowledgeable person and have gotten good results with other clients. But she can also say the same for the other trainers.
She also happens to internet savvy and decides to do a Google search on all the trainers' user names on the board. To narrow down the possibilities, she adds the word training to the search term. What can she find when she does this? Unless its a private board/site, this member can find out a lot. In this day and age, pretty much everything you post online is searchable and can be viewed by anyone.
When she does her search on you, the potential client finds that in the various threads you've posted, you're always respectful of the person, treat them well no matter how poorly the question is asked/opinion is given and give them valid reasons as why things may not work or work for them. She finds you are professional and courtesous.
With the second trainer, the potential client finds trainer 2 has a thread on another board. The trainer is making fun of people on the board where they met, and that others on that board have taken comments out of her threads and posted them to make fun of her. It leaves a really sour taste in her mouth. She decides that Trainer 2 is not getting her money period.
The search on the third trainer shows several threads where he's extremely argumentative and sometimes even comes across as hostile even though he's just trying to help. Although she's gotten useful information in the past from this person, she decides that she doesn't want to give him her business because she wonders if that's how he treats his clients.
I hear arguments on the various boards that people need to toughen up and not take things so personally. There is a tendency to forget there is a person behind the words. But let me ask you this - would you present information to a client in person in such a way that it would make them feel attacked? The answer, I hope, is "No." I think everyone wants repeat business and you want that client to refer other clients to you. So how you present information is important and should be a consideration whether you are just typing an answer on the screen, writing a letter to another person, or talking to them on the phone or in person.
And just to show y'all how easy it is to find out info, I did a few searches on trainers' names here on JP with the word training added to it. Here's a sample of some of the information I found.
Bipennate - 4050 google searches. He's active on forums at the following Fitness.com, Oxygenmag.net, Fitfriends.com, menshealth.com, jpfitness.com, strength training forum at infopop.
Also searched Bip by his name, and another 1150 entries came up on google. And apparently he has a side job as a dermatologist in Athens, GA
Chris Correia - had 3130 Goggle hits He's active on on JPfitness, fitfriends, powerathletesmag.com, workoutmanuals.com
PowermanDL - had 7710 google hits. He's active on wannabebigforums.com, musclewithattitude.com, extreme-physique.com, bodybuilding.com, fortified-iron.com and has 13 videos on Youtube.com
Leigh P. - She's active on the weight-loss.fitness.com forum.
When I search her name, Her web site and blog are the first things that come up about her. But I also see that she's active on Liftforlife.com, fitness.com, and mentioned in Bip's and Bill Hartman's blog. I also found another username she uses.
__________________ It all starts with the mind, but the thoughts, the intention aren't enough. Action needs to come next. Dream it, believe it, plan it, execute it, celebrate it. - Wendy
However there is a flaw in your presentation...I do not post at Liftforlife.com
CONSPIRACY!
Thanks for pointing that out, Leigh. Aaah I think I see what happened, the one of the links from your full name search mentions Fit For Life (fitforlifenc.com) and I just assumed that it was fitforlife.com instead of closely looking at the whole URL.
And it does make anyone who posts hugely accountable.
__________________ It all starts with the mind, but the thoughts, the intention aren't enough. Action needs to come next. Dream it, believe it, plan it, execute it, celebrate it. - Wendy
And just to show y'all how easy it is to find out info, I did a few searches on trainers' names here on JP with the word training added to it. Here's a sample of some of the information I found.
oh deer, a google of my name shows;
My ebay history
I've had far too many training logs at JP's
I've built a computer
I'm a Frasier fan
__________________
*****************************
Walk on
With hope in your heart
And You'll Never Walk Alone
*****************************
There's no free lunch, especially when it's served with special sauce (lostdog)
***************************** My Log - PC Plod
Last edited by kingkop182 : 07-30-2007 at 01:27 PM.
When you look at the original article the presentation of the material looks fine. And judging from the "this is the greatest article" responses from the mindless sheep he didn't ruffle any feathers.
But once you looked critcally at the article you could see how seriously flawed it is. Here you have a trainer, taking information from a questionable source, trying to turn an alleged medical condition into an epidemic all for the purpose of shilling products for his paying publisher.
Presentation is everything? You can wrap a pretty bow on shit, it's still shit.
__________________
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
OldGuy.... I wasn't even talking about the article at this point... and you are right the article is crap. What I was talking about initially is the ongoing discusion about how people are conducting themselves in the thread and being you have to be accountable for what you say and how you say it.
From a business perspective I say it has the potential to bite them in the buttocks if they aren't careful.
__________________ It all starts with the mind, but the thoughts, the intention aren't enough. Action needs to come next. Dream it, believe it, plan it, execute it, celebrate it. - Wendy
Maybe the title isn't the best... but I think I stated it pretty clearly in my first post that I'd seen several issues with presentation of information in the fitness biz and that the adrenal fatigue thread was what prompted me to post some of what I've been thinking in the this section. There's several things that I've noticed beyond what talked about in post number 3. Some of the things I've seen are
Editorial issues - grammar, formatting, spelling, word choice, etc.
Content issues - incorrect technical info/missing info, Reputability of sources (as demonstrated by the thread that started it all).
Media issues - Online vs traditional print and the caveats of each.
__________________ It all starts with the mind, but the thoughts, the intention aren't enough. Action needs to come next. Dream it, believe it, plan it, execute it, celebrate it. - Wendy
I understand what you are saying. I'm just pointing out the flaw in your comment that presentation in everything. I hope that you understand that by saying the "flaw in your comment" I am not saying that you are flawed. Which is the ongoing problem in that thread.
If I say "Jimmy Smith's article sucks because of x,y and z" I am not saying that Jimmy Smith sucks. Jimmy can come back and say "your arguments against x,y and z suck because yada yada yada" and try to bolster his contention. If that were the case I would know that Jimmy is not saying I suck either.
But that's not what is happening in that thread. PMDL is making points against some of the arguments of some posters but not against the posters themselves. If he makes a point that refutes your claim you have the option of coming back and supporting it in a better way. But that doesn't happen. The comeback to him has been "You're being mean". That's pretty weak from a discussion stand point.
Now, if you are going to say that his content is being hurt by his presentation then I would agree. But to make a blanket statement that 'presentation is everything" is wrong. As you can see from Jimmy's article presentation without content is nothing.
__________________
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
Well, then again, a thread title is often some sort of vague, general, blanket statement (at best, sometimes it's "OMG WTF") that gives a clue as to what the thread's content contains.
And, in all honesty, presentation is fairly close to everything... if any information, crap or otherwise, is wrapped in a pretty bow, people are more likely to accept it. Look at politics. Does the message matter? Sure, to a lot of people. But there's still the factors of how someone looks, acts, smells, speaks... his presentation means a lot. The Nixon/Kennedy debates, and the differences between the radio and TV debates nicely illustrates this.
So, while a pretty bow does not make the shit writing any more (or less) valid, it does affect how people RECEIVE that shit, and how willing they are to at least entertain the possibility of it being not shit.
And good presentation only HELPS the person who's packaging diamonds (rather than shit). There are plenty of people who will be turned off by the smelly packaging of the diamonds, and not bothering to see the value of the package.
maybe a better title would have been communication and the fitness industry. Not very sexy.... but it's to the point
__________________ It all starts with the mind, but the thoughts, the intention aren't enough. Action needs to come next. Dream it, believe it, plan it, execute it, celebrate it. - Wendy
maybe a better title would have been communication and the fitness industry. Not very sexy.... but it's to the point
Yes, better title. And I agree that there are serious communication problems in the fitness industry. And understanding their consumers and how consumers react.
__________________
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
Like most articles, the headline was chosen by her editor.
Bwhahahaha
Maybe one of the Mods would be so kind as to change it to Communication and the Fitness Industry :p. I wouldn't get give them a ration for changing the title
__________________ It all starts with the mind, but the thoughts, the intention aren't enough. Action needs to come next. Dream it, believe it, plan it, execute it, celebrate it. - Wendy
__________________ It all starts with the mind, but the thoughts, the intention aren't enough. Action needs to come next. Dream it, believe it, plan it, execute it, celebrate it. - Wendy
Just because I write something or title it doesn't mean it's the best title or way to present something. I learned a long time ago to get over the editorial process, especially since a lot of the corporate writing I do now is done with committees.
__________________ It all starts with the mind, but the thoughts, the intention aren't enough. Action needs to come next. Dream it, believe it, plan it, execute it, celebrate it. - Wendy
I wouldn't give them a ration of shit for changing the title.
__________________ It all starts with the mind, but the thoughts, the intention aren't enough. Action needs to come next. Dream it, believe it, plan it, execute it, celebrate it. - Wendy
__________________ It all starts with the mind, but the thoughts, the intention aren't enough. Action needs to come next. Dream it, believe it, plan it, execute it, celebrate it. - Wendy
As for my communications ability, or lack thereof, it's been rightly pointed out that I would have to be stupid not to realize that the way I speak evokes a specific response.
In terms of it affecting my business, maybe, maybe not. I don't rely on, nor do I ever plan to rely on, the online scheme to make money. Will I ever sell things online? Likely, if for no other reason than I have a lot of things to say and I might as well take people up on it if they want to give me money.
My focus in this field is in the real world, actually physically working with people, not creating an online business. As some of you might have gathered, I really hate that, or at least, what is generally thought to be required to be successful at it. I've tried my hand at the "train clients online" thing, and it's really just not my cup of tea. I'll go as far as to say I hate it, because I'm basically getting paid to create people's expectations for T-Mag programs and the status of "having a trainer". No thanks. It's really stupid of me because I could make money hand over fist doing it, but I really do hate it just that much. "Eat right and here's a good program" is just not something that my ethical system justifies as cause for you throwing me copious amounts of money. Yes, I do realize that's highly stupid of me just for the practical/psychological reasons that most people want those things handed to them, but I have my reasons.
My time spent online is basically fun time. I come on, talk about a subject, and that's the extent of it. If I piss people off, oh well. Don't listen to me; nobody's holding a gun to your head. I'm the first to admit I don't have all the answers. Yes I've amassed a good bit of stuff in my head over the years and it seems I have some ability to apply it. But I don't consider that a strength. I consider my strongest asset to be the ability to know what questions to ask, and to be able to reduce things to simple, easily understood terms.
Since I don't have any real stake in whether or not people like me or even care what I have to say, I just follows that I don't have any real stake in speaking in a way that is going to be tactful. I can do it, just that a lot of times it's much more fulfilling and, ultimately memorable, to do things as I do.
__________________
Articles | Blog | Pirate my book. "Yeah, but you did your post grad thesis on trolling, so you don't count."
-JP, endorsing how awesome I am
The above statement, which I made in the Adrenal Fatigue thread, along with other stuff I have seen has made me think a lot about the communication in the fitness biz and prompted me to post in this section. My hope in doing this is to 1) make fitness professionals aware of how they can communicate information more effectively, 2) make fitness professionals aware of how various forms of communication can affect their own business, and 3) give a back a little to the folks who have helped me on my fitness journey.
A little about me, I've got a BS in English with an emphasis in Rhetoric and Professional Communication from Iowa State and I did graduate work at University of Arkansas at Little Rock in Technical and Expository Writing. I've worked in various industries over the past few years including medical, non-profit, defense, and Oil and Gas. And I walk the line in terms of designing manuals and materials for traditional media and doing web sites and online help.
It matters, no matter where you are and that includes the internet. The ability to communicate to people and to say the right thing at the right time and in the right way can make ALL the difference in the world.
Chaney
__________________
Wishing You the Very Best
Chaney Weiner, CSCS
Beginning January 14, 2008... The Ultimate Fat Burning, Motivational, and Life Changing Formula Teleseminar Series. www.UltimateFatBurningFormula.com
It matters, no matter where you are and that includes the internet. The ability to communicate to people and to say the right thing at the right time and in the right way can make ALL the difference in the world.
Chaney
Absolutely. I think that people who openly act immature on the internet are generally pretty young, or just naive in general. They don't yet realize that everything they have put in to print can be brought up later with nothing but a quick google search. We are not anonymous, even if we think we are.
It's kind of like getting a tatoo on your face when you're 18 (only posts on the internet are much more permanent). You may think it's cool at the time, but in a few years you are really going to wish you hadn't done that.
It matters, no matter where you are and that includes the internet. The ability to communicate to people and to say the right thing at the right time and in the right way can make ALL the difference in the world.
Chaney
Absolutely. I think that people who openly act immature on the internet are generally pretty young, or just naive in general. They don't yet realize that everything they have put in to print can be brought up later with nothing but a quick google search. We are not anonymous, even if we think we are.
It's kind of like getting a tatoo on your face when you're 18 (only posts on the internet are much more permanent). You may think it's cool at the time, but in a few years you are really going to wish you hadn't done that.
That is incidentally why my rules are set up as they are in these forums. If I demand that people treat their fellow posters as though they were in the room with them, it ideally keeps things civil and hopefully prevents people from acting like unruly children, which they would ulimately regret.
Absolutely. I think that people who openly act immature on the internet are generally pretty young, or just naive in general. They don't yet realize that everything they have put in to print can be brought up later with nothing but a quick google search. We are not anonymous, even if we think we are.
Not only that JP but there are sending out negative energy instead of the positive energy needed to make any situation more successful and pleasant.
Chaney
__________________
Wishing You the Very Best
Chaney Weiner, CSCS
Beginning January 14, 2008... The Ultimate Fat Burning, Motivational, and Life Changing Formula Teleseminar Series. www.UltimateFatBurningFormula.com
Communication and the Fitness Industry
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