Simple question regarding PT salaries - JP Fitness Forums

RHCNNN · 02-20-2007, 03:42 PM

Hey all,
My question will be simple but I feel like I need to give some background on me first. Skip it if you like.

I just graduated college in December 06 with degrees in international business and marketing. I am currently doing temp work. 9-5 type office work making what would be ~ $30k a year if I stayed at the job.
It is pretty damn depressing to me to be sitting in front of a desk all day long just watching the clock tick down. I downright dread going to work because it is so boring and soul-crushing. There is not one thing I enjoy about it. Not the people, not the clothes I need to wear, not the job responsibilities. I am starting my way on the business path because I majored in that field and the future prospect of money seems promising. But inside it absolutely kills me to think I might be stuck doing something this boring for the rest of my life. Sure, there may be some business jobs that aren't typical, but right now I wish I could be a Personal Trainer AND make good money.
I am 22, in very good health. Attached is an old pic of me, I am more proportionate now, and leaner, the improvement is very noticeable. Friends seek advice from me about working out and eating right frequently, and I really enjoy sharing with them my knowledge or taking them to the gym with me. I think it would be very rewarding to be able to do this for other people too. However, I cant deny that the potential to make at LEAST over $60k/yr before 30 is a must for me.

So my question is: Is it possible for a PT to make > $60k/yr? If so what circumstances would need to be given for this to be possible

thank you,

Steve-O-68 · 02-20-2007, 03:59 PM

I'm sure it's entirely possible. It all depends on the effort you put into it, and the demand in your area. 4 people a day at $65 a session @ 48 weeks (1 month of vacation time) breaks down to $62K+.

Isaac Wilkins · 02-20-2007, 07:17 PM

If you get your business in line AND you are a good trainer then it becomes fairly simple (not easy, but simple) to make 50-100k/year. It's a process, though. Don't expect to start out making that, but with some good knowledge, and learning the business end of things you could be at least equaling your temp salary after a few months.

There's a lot of good wisdom in this forum on starting in the PT business. Read all of these threads and then ask more questions.

Good luck!

vuduchyld · 02-20-2007, 07:39 PM

This may not be exactly the kind of reply you're looking for, but I certainly had a few thoughts when I read this post. As it so happens, I do small business consulting for a living, so I work with people EVERY DAY who are asking these kinds of questions. This is what I do, so I'll take a quick shot at this one.

The quick-n-dirty answer is that, yes, plenty of personal trainers make more than $60K per year. Some of your earning power will be directly related to your local market. I live in a small-ish town (pop. 100K) and I would be surprised if trainers here are making $60K unless they own the gym they train in. And of course, that is an option! Ask JP about living that dream! But in your area, there may be trainers working for other people who make $60K per year.

I'm going to GUESS that if you go work for somebody else, though, you're going to work for whatever pittance they pay you....and my guess is that if you go to your local gym, they are going to give you some part time work and pay you about $10 to $15 per hour...about what you're making now, but actually you'll work fewer than 40 hours per week, so you'll make less money.

In order to make a decent go of it as a personal trainer, I would suspect that you'll have your best luck if you start your own business. You don't have to start a gym...you can start a personal training business.

In order to make $60K per year, as Steve-O pointed out, all you need is 4 clients per day paying you $65 per session. That's actually a great way to look at it. You need 4 x 5 x $65...times 48 weeks.

Let's start with that $65 per session. Is that reasonable given the market in your area? You're in Chino Hills, CA? I tried a little google search, but I couldn't really find anything that I thought was an appropriate comparison. You'll probably have to make some telephone calls....or, as we say in my biz...."do some market research". What do other trainers charge? What, exactly, do they offer? Do they have certifications that you don't have....and will you NEED those certifications?

Hell, I can guarantee you that plumbers make $60K per year. I'm kinda fat and you can see the crack of my ass if I bend over too much...but just because I LOOK the part, that doesn't mean I can put a magnet on my truck, hand out business cards saying I'm a plumber, and start charging people $65 per hour. And just because you can train yourself, that doesn't mean you'll be qualified to train others. I don't know much about you, so I'm not tryin' ta dish....I'm just sayin....you are obviously great at training YOU...and that will HELP...but it's not the total picture.

Anyway, it seems that marketplaces for personal training services are LARGELY local (not entirely, but largely) and you will need to understand YOUR local market to know if you have the qualifications to charge $65 per session.

Assuming you CAN charge $65, the next question is this...what will you have to do in order to book FOUR sessions per day on average? (Now we're on the 4 x 5.) If I'm a personal trainer, I would love to have 20 clients that will schedule weekly appointments with me. Easier said than done, I'll wager.

How do you get to that point? Well, I'd suspect that there will be some work involved. How are people going to find out about you? You're going to have to develop some type of marketing communications to let people know that you are available to train them...for a fee, or course. You might go with a myspace page, another web page....you might get some business cards and hand them out to everybody you know. You'll probably develop a little "elevator pitch"...something that you say when you meet people so that they know what you do and that you're accepting clients. Hell, write a weekly column for your local newspaper if they'll let you. Get your name out there! There are a million other ways to market your services, so I won't get too into it here.

The other thing I'd say, though, is that you WILL want to make sure you UNDERSTAND your market position. You WILL want to BRAND yourself, somehow. Most small businesses that I work with make the marketing mistake of trying to cast TOO WIDE of a net....they don't want to DISQUALIFY potential customers. But my experience is that you will be better off trying to appeal to a smaller target of people. Maybe for you, the target market will be...I don't know...20-something men who are working in the corporate world and developing that paunch...and you can convince them that you know how to help them get rid of that belly. Or maybe 40-something women who just want a good-looking younger man to say nice things about them when they are in the gym (get some MILF clients!). You might even serve multiple market segments, but you'd better know how to TARGET the segments you want.

I always tell people to fill in the blank: "We're the ones you call when you REALLY want to __________" When you think about it that way, you learn how to DIFFERENTIATE yourself in your local marketplace. What can you deliver that other trainers in your marketplace can NOT?

Anyway, if you can find WEEKLY clients and you can work around each others' schedules, that is probably a trainer's dream. Of course, you actually probably have some cancellations when people are going out of town....some people maybe get injured and miss some time....you also have some people coming and going. And maybe some bi-weekly folks. So maybe you need more like 25-30 regular clients. Can you make that happen? It doesn't SOUND like a lot, but I'd bet it would take time to develop that clientele. Of course, you'll also have some client turnover and churn (related to the "48 weeks" part of the equation now), so ultimately you will have to be really good at prospecting for potential customers, marketing to them, and converting the interest into SALES (contracts or at least agreements for training services). Don't underestimate the importance of having the ability to close that deal. It's an underrated part of this type of business. All the interest in the world won't generate a PENNY of revenues for you if you can't convert that interest into sales.

Ah, silly me. I've only looked at the Revenues. CAN you generate $60K in revenues??? If so, what about EXPENSES? If you don't own the gym, are you going to have to pay some gym owner a fee to be able to use their gym? (Obviously, if you want to make $60K and gym owners charge you 25% of what you make, you'll have to book $80K in training revenues.) Will you just go to peoples' homes and train there (NOT LIKELY to generate $60K in revenues that way)? Will you need a business phone? Liability insurance? Professional services? Don't forget....some of the benefits that you get working for somebody else can be DAMNED expensive if you go buy them yourself....retirement package, health insurance, disability, etc...Hell, you'd better make sure you think you can clock $90K to $100K in revenues per year if you want to have a $60K lifestyle...maybe MORE.

OF course, if you do it well, you can develop some other revenue streams. MAybe you can write articles for magazines or you can write a book of your experiences. Maybe you can do some consulting or guest speaking. Maybe you can hire some other trainers, book them for $45 per hour and pay them $20...so you make some money every time THEY train a client "using your system". Maybe you have a website with some special content that you've developed that you charge people for. I don't really know a damn thing about the personal training business, but I DO know that you will have more luck by copying successful people in the business (think Berardi, Cressey, or JP) than you are likely to have reinventing the wheel. Think about the things that successful people do. Think about how YOU can ADD VALUE.

Jeez....this is LONG. As you might expect, since this IS what I do for a living, I could ramble on and on for hours. I'll spare you for now! I'm sure there are successful people IN THE BIZ who can help you more, anyway. That's the only PROBLEM with what I do...since I don't specialize in any type of business, usually the people I work with know THEIR OWN BUSINESS better than I do. I just ask questions and they take me along for the ride! As a business major, you probably understand a lot about how all this works, anyway, but I've found that MOST universities do a CRAPPY job of teaching people about SMALL business.

The one other thing I'd point out is that I think you're on the right track. Do what you like, get good at it, be successful, and develop YOUR OWN relationship with the marketplace. If you screw around in the corporate world, you'll make more money faster. But by the time you are 40 and making six figures or more, you'll just get laid off and get to start over!

Leigh P. · 02-20-2007, 08:59 PM

Well there is no adding anything after that post (excellent post) in the aspect of money making.

I will say that your love for what you do and knowledge is important. It takes more than having a good body, infact some of the best trainers I have read and met have just average bodies but fantastic knowledge of their craft.

Basically if its all money then No you won't do good. If you have the heart to go with smart buisness then well refer to post before me.

Jean-Paul · 02-20-2007, 10:02 PM

Great follow up to Vudu's excellent post, Leigh (welcome to the forums, by the way). I agree completely.

Joseph Campbell said to "follow your bliss." If fitness is where it's at, then don't worry about the money. It will come to you.

vuduchyld · 02-20-2007, 10:22 PM

Hey, I apologize for the long-windedness of my reply! I sure did not mean to stifle any discussion, but apparently I might have done just that!

I guess I was hoping to get several issues out on the table and then dive into specifics about any of those issues people were interested in discussing.

Leigh and JP both made the point...if you can manage to figure out a way to do what you love and do it well, you're going to have fun and make a living. It just so happens that I get the opportunity to do what I love...not in the fitness arena, but working with small businesses and entrepreneurs! Lucky me!

Jean-Paul · 02-21-2007, 05:28 AM

You weren't long-winded at all, Will! I loved your answer. Knowing your new field of expertise, I will undoubtedly be hitting you up for advice.

Deserve · 02-21-2007, 06:14 AM

Brilliant post Vudu? I'd also like to mentioned that it's not hard to imagine that a temp job right out of college is not going to be rewarding or leaping with responsibility. Have you considered getting a different job in a different field that might have more of a define career path in an industry you enjoy.

vuduchyld · 02-21-2007, 09:03 AM

One other thing I meant to mention but forgot....MOST entrepreneurs start their business while they are still employed.

I'm not sure how registration of Sole Proprietorships works in Cali (they are NOT registered in Kansas), but there may be basically NOTHING to prevent you from starting a training business RIGHT NOW. You could keep your crappy temp job working 9-5 and try to get some evening and/or weekend clients to build your base.

A quick google search yielded this:

Fictitious Name Filing: A Fictitious Business Name is required when the business name does not include the surname of the individual owner(s) and each of the partners; or the business name suggests the existance of additional owners; or the nature of the business in not clearly evident by the name of the business. For example Bill Smith and Sons Plumbing would require a FBN because the name implies additional owners, Bill Smith Plumbing does not require a FBN. Bill Smith Industries would require a FBN because it does not identify the nature of the business.
Contact:	County of San Bernardino Auditor/Controller-Recorder Fictitious Business Name Filing 222 West Hospitality Lane San Bernardino, CA 92415-0022 909-386-8970

From: http://www.calgold.ca.gov/Printer.as...NTY=36&CITY=74

So....you keep your job, you register your FBN (or you call it RHCNNN Training), you go to a local bank and you start a new bank account for the business--making sure that they will take checks made payable to that FBN, you print up some business cards and some flyers to put on bulletin boards, you figure out how/where you can train people (will your gym owner let you advertise and train in his/her facility for a fee?), you START HUSTLING UP some BUSINESS!!!

Finding clients is going to be your biggest challenge. By the time you've got seven or eight clients per week, you may have to quit your temp job because you'll be working 60 or 70 hours per week. But by then you'll also know how much marketing/sales effort it will require to get the other 10-12 clients you'll need...and you'll understand your market well enough to be able to price correctly.

Entrepreneurship is very popular in the US compared to many developed nations BECAUSE the mechanisms are pretty straightforward here. There is really nothing to prevent you from taking on clients....maybe as soon as TODAY! Certainly you can do the required market research in a few days.

Lisa~ · 02-21-2007, 10:17 AM

Great posts Vudu!

RHCNNN · 02-21-2007, 10:47 AM

thank you for the well though-out replies. I appreciate that you are willing to share your advice with me even when its a whole lot to write out! It definately has given me some things to think about. I'm really not sure what my next move will be (not sure if I'll even follow through with trying to become a PT)... but I am glad to have some of your perspective.
Thanks again all!

Isaac Wilkins · 02-21-2007, 10:48 AM

I agree, great posts, Vudu!

That leads me to another question, one I've been debating and would love input from everyone here:

LLC or Sole-proprietorship?

Obviously the regulations vary a bit by state, but I'm interested in views in general.

The SP is easy enough, but I hear that you get the shaft from taxes. How much legal wrangling and fees are involved in an LLC?

Steve-O-68 · 02-21-2007, 11:03 AM

Awesome posts Vudu!

To the OP... something that I've been doing for the last 6 months or so is work with people for free, since I didn't have a cert yet and have a good paying day job. I've worked with 7 or 8 people before and after work just to gain some experience dealing with people. Only a few have stuck with it, others quit after a few weeks. This gave me an idea of what to look for in potential clients. Just something else to think about...

Jean-Paul · 02-21-2007, 12:18 PM

I started off as a SP, then about 6 years ago established as an LLC. You will need at least one other partner to be an LLC. A "C" or "S" corp may be more suitable.

For tax reasons I really like the LLC. I had losses a couple years ago, and they flowed through to my personal, allowing me to get a really nice refund. Plus, as long as you pay your 941s (on time!), then all you have to worry about is your annual franchise tax. Also, if you are going after partners, it seems like the most user-friendly option for partner buy-ins.

I would actually get with a good [i.e. high priced] corporate attorney, and have him/her figure out the best scenario based on your needs and the laws in your state. Then have them draw up your articles of incorporation.

Leigh P. · 02-21-2007, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean-Paul

I would actually get with a good [i.e. high priced] corporate attorney, and have him/her figure out the best scenario based on your needs and the laws in your state. Then have them draw up your articles of incorporation.

I highly recommend this as well and I am a Sole-proprietor. Once you don't have to worry about pissing off the IRS, things run more smoothly. There are also alot more write offs that you can legally do with someone pointing out places you can save from gas to office supplies. And yes I spent a pretty penny on getting a professional, however in the long run it will really save me alot of money.