What is everyone's take on professionalizing the fitness industry, most notably professionalization for fitness trainers? Since fitness trainers work with peoples's bodies should they have to go through some type of standardized training such as a doctor or dentist does?
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Think of the implications. A trainer with inadequate knowledge can cause permanent, serious injury or possibly even death. All they would need to do is have a client perform an exercise improperly or with improper supervision and a disaster could occur. I'm not even going to address the ones that just give bad advice.
We require licensing for hair stylists, nail technicians, financial planners, realtors, accountants, undertakers, insurance brokers, and a host of others. Why not people who are entrusted with their clients' health and well-being?
__________________ The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same. -- Carlos Castaneda
Last edited by RacerBill : 12-29-2006 at 08:13 PM.
Yeah, I am amazed that there isn't some type of licensing for fitness professionals. There should be mandatory testing and licensing, I think it would really help the industry and its overall image to the public.
__________________ If your dog is fat, you aren't getting enough exercise. -Unknown
I think that it should be a licensure system similar to EMTs in that it would have different levels based on education, testing and contact hours. It addition it would also enable us to make a legitimate referral system between trainers, doctors and PTs.
Aren't the certifications supposed to cover the "basic knowledge" stuff? I could by into some of the certs unifying to create a "standard" but that's about as far as I'd go. There's nothing to stop a trainer from getting any number of certifications and college degrees to prove (in theory) that they're competent. The consumer needs to be intelligent enough to know what's what and look at who's offering what service.
You can take your car to your neighbors or to the dealership. You can go to the faith healer or the doctor. It's up to you to know which is better.
Do you mean that there should be a universal certification for all trainers to take to be considered a professional?
For now I consider it to be the NSCA cert. And yes, all trainers who work with humans should have this. There are so many dumb fucking trainers in the world, and it is getting worse.
Do you mean that there should be a universal certification for all trainers to take to be considered a professional?
For now I consider it to be the NSCA cert. And yes, all trainers who work with humans should have this. There are so many dumb fucking trainers in the world, and it is getting worse.
I think that having many certs. is fine, but licensure adds in more strict standards and harsher punishments. Just like taking an EMT course from different organizations is fine, but state and national licenses are standardized.
Truth is that there is not a high incidence of reported client injury or death even with "unqualified" trainers.
There's also a massive potential loss of income for the hundreds of certification companies, so I would assume that they'll fight against a standardized credentialing process and push to maintain an environment of self-regulation.
Bill's right, it probably won't happen any time soon, but it really should... Let me say this. I took the CSCS and the NSCA CPT and talked to other people taking it that have passed... you don't have to be smart, only able to memorize...
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Bill's right, it probably won't happen any time soon, but it really should... Let me say this. I took the CSCS and the NSCA CPT and talked to other people taking it that have passed... you don't have to be smart, only able to memorize...
I agree...I don't think the NSCA cert "automatically" makes you a better trainer than the next. I have met plenty of NSCA certifed trainers that have not impressed me.
As far as professionalizing the personal training field...it has been talked about for the last 4-5 years. And I don't think each indivdual state will put in enough effort to put a liscensure procedure in place for such a practice. I think it should be spearheaded at the university level. The first Division 1 school to create a 4-year degree in personal training (that I know of) was Purdure University in 2004. I think the more the world of academia stresses the importants of a degree program for personal training - it will stat a brush fire at the local level of legal legitimizing.
As far as "professionalism"...professionalism is a character trait that develops from an occupation requiring advanced academic training (Websters New World Dictionary)
In California, teachers are certified to teach in public schools. Didn't make them any better... Now, we just can't say they're lame, because if they were lame, how'd they pass the certification process? Hmmm...
There are no certainties in this world. A certification process doesn't mean the person is automatically going to be good. But life is like poker. It's all about odds. Having a good solid certification process will help cut out the people that shouldn't be doing the job. It's not perfect, but it's better than not having it there. In the end, I agree with Bill. Good idea, but wont happen for a while if it happens at all.
A license can also give a false sense of security to the "client" so that they do not do their proper research.
I don't see who it would help. Which target client will benefit?
At my gym, the people trust the trainers are doing a swell job because 24 Hour keeps them on staff. Why would they keep them around if they were bad?
There's also like a bazillion different certs, now. Which skillsets and knowledge bases would go into the licensure or "official" cert process? It would likely get watered down to a safety thing in the end. I'm sure your average idiot trainer would pass that, anyway, after a little cramming. Then, he'd have his certificate on the wall that makes his clients feel confident that he's doing a swell job.
At some point a client gets sophisticated enough to check things out for themselves, at which time a track record is a more valuable indicator than the certificate on the wall.
I think this sounds good, but in practice? Nope. With the CPR part, we at least have an agreement on what's good to know. But, other than that, I don't know what you'd standardize on unless you added a basic gym safety course and made them promise to refer people to a doctor under certain circumstances.
I think that, besides the initiatives at the government or university level, for the trainer as an individual it is also a matter of self-appreciation or self-steem.
Having reviewed the study materials of two of the most recognized certification agencies, I still can't begin to comprehend how someone could possibly feel competent enough to deal with the health, well-being, time, money, goals, aspirations, etc., of other people after completing a 1, 2, or 3-month personal-training or sports-conditioning certification course. A serious, honest, conscious trainer would soon realize that a certification course isn't nearly enough, not only to be able to provide a service with responsibility to the general or athletic population, but also to attain a sense of professional fulfillment.
As I see it, fitness training goes beyond the aesthetic or performance enhancement aspects, beginning with the fact that in addition to the physical aspects of fitness there are also psychological and social ones. Besides the obvious program design and exercise technique issues, anatomy and physiology (even physiopathology and pathology); exercise physiology; biomechanics; postural and gait analysis; strength and flexibility assessment; corrective exercise; injury prevention and rehabilitation; basic sports medicine; nutrition; weight management; public health issues; psychology, motivation, behavior modification; leadership; and pedagogy are all subjects that come to mind and that I consider should also be part of a fitness professional's preparation. Let's not forget of the business components of fitness! It's obvious that all this knowledge can't be attained in a course that lasts a few weeks or months! (Here I have to point out that the certification agencies' study materials I have seen do, in fact, touch on some of these topics, but their coverage is too superficial or brief to be completely useful.)
A trainer is much, much more than a "rep-counter"; he/she is a health agent, an educator, a motivator, a leader... A myth-buster!
At times, unfortunately, I can't help to think that a trainer looking for a certification (whichever it might be) is seeking a quick and easy way to make a living. Or perhaps he/she doesn't realize the dimension of their chosen profession?
Of the trainers who hold nothing more than a certification credential, honestly, I can only think of a few whose training advice I would follow. I believe I feel this because, in my opinion, they lack the background in the subjects I mentioned earlier to be competent fitness/health agents.
People like the experts in this forum, who have earned (or are in the process of earning) their Bachelor's Master's, or Ph.D. degrees in health- and fitness-related fields, are truly the ones who are leading the way by showing real commitment to the advancement of the field.
I agree with everything you mention in your post, Esteban. However, I am one of those committed trainers who has made a big impact in my clients' lives, but having dropped out of college my senior year, I am missing a credential. I have known many a credentialed trainer who couldn't train their way out of a wet paper bag, so I don't equivicate a credential with competence.
I don't have a problem with some sort of professional exam that proves I possess at least the minimum amount necessary to train clients, but I already have that, as do most trainers.
I still see CSCS's doing machine-based workouts, and split routines right out of the principals of Joe Weider... It's a good cert is no gaurantee.
Truth is that there is not a high incidence of reported client injury or death even with "unqualified" trainers.
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Nice thought but I don't see it happening.
Bill
Interesting. MH did a story on this a while back, and that gave the impression that trainer-related injuries are difficult to track but the writer felt it might be more common than anyone realizes.
I agree that I don't see a national certification program happening, certainly not soon.
But I have a big problem with gyms or organizations that grant someone the status of "trainer" after completing a weekend seminar.
__________________ The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same. -- Carlos Castaneda
People like the experts in this forum, who have earned (or are in the process of earning) their Bachelor's Master's, or Ph.D. degrees in health- and fitness-related fields, are truly the ones who are leading the way by showing real commitment to the advancement of the field.
I think your post was lucid and extremely well stated. I do however disagree with this final paragraph.
Academics in our industry are often not practically qualified in the least to disseminate and apply training methodology, exercise selection or coaching science to actual, breathing clientele (without hesitation, it must be stated that of course their are numerous exceptions).
Herein lies the dichotomy - there are no hard and fast rules that can be used to quantified the practical ability of a given professional.
There are innumerable uneducated professionals who shouldn't be allowed to step foot into a facility and earn money for being an 'expert'.
Conversely, there are innumerable academics who lack the practical ability to be considered an 'expert' as well.
I workout out at a local Bally's (what can I say... no one knows who I am and I can get in and out inside of 30 minutes!).
The 'Head Trainer' has a Master's Degree in Exercise Physiology and is certified by no fewer than 3 nationally accredited organizations (including a CSCS through the NSCA as well as an advanced certification through the NASM).
Smith Machine Squats
Ab Machine Curls
Single Arm Bicep Curls
Seated Abduction/Adduction Machine
These are the types 'exercises' she uses literally daily with her clients.
In my decade and change in this industry, I can tell you that this example is not an isolated one by any means.
By the way, as likely the only member of this forum who is actually going through the national accreditation process, I will say that from an 'insiders prospective', the process leaves a lot to be desired.
Having been in the field for close to 17 years, I can say that I have seen it all...good, bad and ugly. I am also part of an accredited organization and hold a national certification from that (NATA), along with my CSCS and plenty of education to back all of that up. With that said, it makes me no better trainer than anyone else.........unless of course I have developed the sense to know how to use all of it in the real world and have practical experience to back it up. Further, there is a chance that I could have all of the certs, education, and experience in the world and STILL be a moron (I hope thats not the case ). The point I am trying to make is that it really wont matter a ton if there is or isnt a procress. Just as there are 20 year MD's out there that I wouldn't send anyone too, there are Athletic Trainers and PT's I know that I would trust with my life.
People have to make informed decisions based on their own research and recommendations. I have the same experience as Brian...go to a gym where no one knows who I am or what I do...and I watch these nationally certified trainers having a woman who is clearly 40 pounds plus overweight and has a number or other issues, doing jump squats on a bosu ball.
I know other trainers who have not a lot of formal education, but studied their asses off and learned a ton from everyone that really know their stuff.
I will say this however, I will tend to trust someone that has been through SOME KIND OF education and some kind of cert process a little more in the beginning, but still would need to evaluate them fully to really know who I am working with.
I'm not trying to pick on you Lost Dog. I just had some thoughts about your points.
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Originally Posted by Lost Dog
A license can also give a false sense of security to the "client" so that they do not do their proper research.
I don't see who it would help. Which target client will benefit?
That's true. But 1) you already have this happen now with trainers getting less-than-reputable certs and clients going "well, they're certified". And 2) it's been my experience as a trainer that most clients don't want to do their proper research. That's true of any profession. The majority of people don't go to a doctor, a psychiatrist, a contractor, or a plumber to learn the ins and outs. They just want the issue corrected without a lot of details.
So we may as well make the certification process as a whole a more effective tool.
I think any target client would benefit.
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At my gym, the people trust the trainers are doing a swell job because 24 Hour keeps them on staff. Why would they keep them around if they were bad?
I'm not sure if you mean this seriously or sarcastically. Sorry about that. A lot of trainers are bad. At the gym I worked at there were always about half a dozen trainers on staff and no more than half of them were any good. The gym is focused more on making money than offering quality trainers. The in-house test was a joke. The guy that got the most clients wasn't the best trainer, he was the best salesman. He believed in spot reduction and shaping muscles. If someone had any kind of health condition (high blood pressure, knee surgeory) they gave them to me or one other trainer. We were the only two who studied Kinesiology in college (he finished his degree, I stopped 2 classes short) and were certified by a respectable org (NSCA). Everyone else was certified in-house. They had some basic knowledge on fitness but that was it. And if someone is a good trainer without a cert, then they should be able to pass an effective universal certification standard anyway.
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There's also like a bazillion different certs, now. Which skillsets and knowledge bases would go into the licensure or "official" cert process? It would likely get watered down to a safety thing in the end. I'm sure your average idiot trainer would pass that, anyway, after a little cramming. Then, he'd have his certificate on the wall that makes his clients feel confident that he's doing a swell job.
We should go with something similar to the ACSM or NSCA's standards. Some course work could even be required. Either way, a good chunk of trainers who are certified by those other generic certs out there would fail if they don't actually have some knowledge. Sure, some would pass, but there would be fewer lame certified trainers than there are now.
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At some point a client gets sophisticated enough to check things out for themselves, at which time a track record is a more valuable indicator than the certificate on the wall.
There's definitely some truth to this but a problem with this is that you can find some trainers who have clients that make progress despite some of the things the trainers prescribe or made great gains before even being trained by the person. You'll also find trainers who are better at selling themselves than being effective trainers. And it's also not unheard of for trainers to, as a marketing strategy, get testimonials from people who weren't really their clients. You'll always have this to some degree. But if there was a more universal, more effective certification process, then the people could go by the trainers track record AND that cert. So it's even better.
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I think this sounds good, but in practice? Nope. With the CPR part, we at least have an agreement on what's good to know. But, other than that, I don't know what you'd standardize on unless you added a basic gym safety course and made them promise to refer people to a doctor under certain circumstances.
We can take this to the CPR cert even. Why bother having a CPR certification process at all? Does it mean someone will be able to effectively perform CPR? Nope. So why bother? Simple: Having a CPR certification process increases the likelihood that someone will know how to perform proper CPR. Just like having a MD increases the likelihood a a guy knows how to practice medicine or having an Engineering Cert increases the likelihood a civil engineer will know how to properly build infrastructure. It's no guarantee, but you're increasing your odds.
Does anyone here actually believe that you're average in-house or even ACE certified trainer would be as knowledgeable as your average NSCA or ACSM certified trainer? I've been certified by ACE and the NSCA and it's been my wide experience that those who were certified by the NSCA were a step higher as far as being an effective trainer. And I KNOW there are worse cert. orgs. than ACE.
In short, I believe in a universal certification process. It wont weed out every bad trainer but it would certainly help.
I was being sarcastic and serious, depending on the sentence. The part about trust of 24 Hour trainers was sarcastic, but true. They clients trust them because they are there. They assume that 24 Hour would have competent trainers. For the most part, 24 Hour trains them their way, too.
I believe that the average customer at 24 Hour Fitness is pretty satisfied with the training that they get, but mostly because they don't know better. Also, at that level, I doubt they'd be willing to pay more than what they pay for their current training.
Now that I've thought about it more, I've changed my stance a bit.
I do think that that certs would increase the likelyhood of good training. But, I think we (here) have a stricter requirements for what we'd look for in a trainer. Stricter than the average gym-goer in a 24 Hour, or LA Fitness, Bally's, etc. would require or wish to pay for.
How about escellating scales of training certifications? A minimum to get in the door, then experience, training, and learning will allow them to be further certified.
All well said, but herein lies some further problems:
a. Many of the top trainers I know are critical of ACE, and yet ACE is one of the only certifications in existence right now that is 3rd party accredited as per the IHRSA directives. That makes ACE a 'cut above' in the eyes of the powers that be. As I mentioned previously, I am currently going through the process and can tell you factually that all accreditation does is ensure that your testing parameters are reliable. They do not, nor can they, standardize/verify your material nor adjudicate as to the practical ability of your graduates.
b. Our industry is more diverse than ever. Simply put, there are far too many sub-specialties in existence to cover in one basic universal credential. I personally specialize in long-term athletic development... I recognize my own personal limitations and wouldn't even consider accepting a geriatric, pregnant, injured or special needs client. Unfortunately, most trainers do not appreciate the specific nuances of varying demographics and become 'universal experts' in their own minds. Although that is a distinct concern, I don't see how one universal credential can empower any one professional to know enough theoretical and practical knowledge to effectively and safely work with clients of drastically dissimilar demographics.
"And it's been my wide experience that those who were certified by the NSCA were a step higher as far as being an effective trainer."
I certainly can't argue with your experiences, but the NSCA exam is nothing more than a test of memory. More over, you can only take the exam if you have a post secondary degree (which I don't think is a bad thing).
Having said that however, in your experience, are NSCA grads better than other trainers BECAUSE of the exam they took, or simply because the NSCA has positioned itself as the credential that most serious professional aspire to??
In that, did the exam make them better, or were they better qualified and more serious to begin with than graduates of lesser certifications?
Therein lies the paramount dilemma as far as I'm concerned with respect to arbitrarily judging a trainer by their credentials.
Excellent post, Chiron! Trust me when I say that I am in this for the discussion and not the argument.
Chiron and Lost Dog, about the "universal certification process/standard": are you aware of the existence of the National Board of Fitness Examiners (NBFE)?
The NBFE is seen by many as the alternative to accreditation. I'm curious to know, what are everyone's thoughts on this? After learning in this thread that Brian's IYCA is going through accreditation, I think it would be interesting to know what he thinks about this (even though his youth sports conditioning certifications might not be affected directly by the NBFE initiative.)
Chiron and Lost Dog, about the "universal certification process/standard": are you aware of the existence of the National Board of Fitness Examiners (NBFE)?
The NBFE is seen by many as the alternative to accreditation. I'm curious to know, what are everyone's thoughts on this? After learning in this thread that Brian's IYCA is going through accreditation, I think it would be interesting to know what he thinks about this (even though his youth sports conditioning certifications might not be affected directly by the NBFE initiative.)
I hadn't heard of them. I suppose the biggest part is knowing if they have support. It would have to be mandatory for it to matter.
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Qualified trainers may sit for Part I of National Board Exam
Thursday, October 27, 2005; Posted: 2:05 a.m. EDT (06:05 GMT)
SANTA BARBARA, CA — The National Board of Fitness Examiners (NBFE) announced today that for the first time in the history of the fitness industry, a nationally standardized examination for personal trainers is
now available
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I'm not trying to be cynical, but if there's no support behind it, it amounts to just another set of initials after the trainers name. The public doesn't know what the ones that are there now, are about yet.
I'm guessing that they don't have a lot of support, otherwise they'd have it all over their site. Do you know how that part's coming along?
What I know is that two bands are forming: On one side, the NCCA-accredited certification agencies (NSCA, NASM, ACSM, among others), and on the other, the NBFE affiliates (ISSA, NESTA, AFAA, for example.) As far as I know, there are no certification agencies that support both sides (as a matter of fact, I know of one provisional affiliate of the NBFE that recently abandoned the initiative and is now seeking NCCA accreditation.)
After taking a look at the list of NBFE's affiliates, it should be apparent that the organizations with the greatest industry recognition are on the side of NCCA accreditation. To these organizations, accreditation by the NCCA is sufficient to ensure that those who pass their carefully-crafted, rigorous, and validated exams are competent enough to work as fitness trainers. In addition, the NBFE is seen by some as an strategy of lesser known or recognized certification organizations (whose certification courses and exam practices might or might not be of appropriate quality) to level off the industry and put their certified trainers, in the eye of the public, on the same level as those of the more recognized organizations.
On the other hand, the supporters of the NBFE claim that a standardized exam is necessary in an industry such as this, in which there are literally hundreds of certification agencies, including some dangerous "weekend" certification programs, each with their own perspective of what a competent trainer should be able to do. They also believe that accreditation by the NCCA doesn't actually guarantee the competency of trainers, only the "fitness" of certification exams (Brian mentioned something in this regard earlier in this thread.)
Here, again, it would be interesting to learn from Brian's (and the IYCA's) ongoing experience.
I should mention that the discussion is actually much more sophisticated than what I'm expressing here. I'm just going to add that some people see the NBFE as a precursor to licensure for fitness professionals, while others claim that it is a completely independent initiative.
Having worked with several trainers here in LA, I have to say that i agree there should be some type of licensing for PTs. It's amazing that people who have such a high potential for injuring someone are allowed to practice without serious credentials.
It's even more amazing how little they seem to know about effective training--even with certification. (I feel as if i've learned more from this forum than they ever did in their classes!)
But that's an indication of how flawed the certification education is. If these trainers can pass the certification, the program should be much more rigorous, stringent and in-depth. I'm not saying comparable to med school but . . .
Of course in the real world i can't see this happening for the reasons Bill points out.
So for now, hiring a PT remains another example of consuder educate thy self and buyer beware.
What is everyone's take on professionalizing the fitness industry, most notably professionalization for fitness trainers? Since fitness trainers work with peoples's bodies should they have to go through some type of standardized training such as a doctor or dentist does?
I think that it's already in the process of having its standards raised. For example, many of the higher-end clubs won't even look at applications from trainers who aren't NASM or NSCA certified (or they'll mandate or facilitate certification by one of those soon after hiring). The writing is pretty much on the wall that these organizations are the top of the bunch. Both do a great job of putting their students through a rigorous program rendering their competence, granted they keep up their continuing ed. As far as "professionalization" being defined as a march toward a singular certifying body that is THE official licensing entity for trainers, it won't happen any time soon. There's too much money flowing into the various certifying bodies, and they're gonna fight tooth & nail with gurneys & attorneys to make sure they keep their spot in the market.
When I was Fitness Director at Gold's, we preferred only NASM trainers. If they were hired without a cert, we gave them 60 days to register for the exam. We actually turned away alot of ACSM-HFI's because they thought everything we did would cause a cllient a heart attack.
I am in a position right now where I have to come up with standard to hire. Its pretty much up to me what certs incoming trainers must have. Now I am not saying that certs trump experience, because I think they are both important. However, when someone walks in off of the street and wants to be a trainer there is no way of really knowing about experience (people do lie) so you have to go with certs.
I am much more comfortable going with NSCA and/or NASM. I know about the exams and what people have to know to pass them and although having those certs does not make or break a trainer, it tells me that there was a minimum standard reached and we can work from that.
I had a guy come in the other day with a cert from the state of Va. It was a local personal training certification from a gym in Va. It might as well have read "Joe's PT and Fitness Cert". How does that translate into anything?
As I forgot to add to my post...we also gave incoming trainers in-house exams after their initial interview. We had 2 exams - one for the certified/experienced trainer (obvisoulsy more difficult) and one for the enthusiastic candidate who was willing to do what it took to get a job.
Professionalizing the Fitness Industry
). The point I am trying to make is that it really wont matter a ton if there is or isnt a procress. Just as there are 20 year MD's out there that I wouldn't send anyone too, there are Athletic Trainers and PT's I know that I would trust with my life. 
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