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Leigh, what do you mean by 10 grams? 10 grams active ingredient or 10 grams total fish oil?
Lyle McDonald gave me this information on how many fish oils I should be taking a couple of weeks ago:
"whatever adds up to 1.8-3 grams of active ingredient.
each of your fish oils contains
360 mg active ingredient (216 + 144 =360).
so divide 1.8 or 3.0 by 360 which is 5-8 pills."
My pills contain 2.4 total grams of fish oil but only 360 mg active ingredients (EPA and DHA). So do I need to take 5 or 24? There's a big difference between 50 calories and 240!
Leigh, how do you figure out how many grams of fat are in each pill?
Krispy helped me figure out that I need to take 3 pills a day. Is that the 10grams of EFA I need?
It really depends on the brand you are taking. It should have a label with the # of grams etc. Some brands you need to take many pills or in the case of the liquid ones sometimes you need just 1 spoonful to get the required dose.
On a similar note, recently read a study now refuting some of the health claims of Omega 3's especially as it relates to heart disease. A few newer studies have found no benefits. Anyone else see them?
10 grams of total fish oil would be a general recommendation. If you want to calculate on EPA/DHA content then this will vary from product to product. This will also depend on you goal but if using for fat loss which posting in this thread would suggest then I would not be too concerned about the EPA/DHA ratio or content too much other than to suggest to use a high quality product. I personally use Poliquin and Metagenics which have been tested to be two of the higher quality products on the market.
You should also ideally cycle your omega 3 source monthly.
10 grams of total fish oil would be a general recommendation. If you want to calculate on EPA/DHA content then this will vary from product to product. This will also depend on you goal but if using for fat loss which posting in this thread would suggest then I would not be too concerned about the EPA/DHA ratio or content too much other than to suggest to use a high quality product. I personally use Poliquin and Metagenics which have been tested to be two of the higher quality products on the market.
You should also ideally cycle your omega 3 source monthly.
This sounds exactly backwards to me. It seems that if one is promoting fish oil, then a specific EPA+DHA target should be specified (e.g 3 grams total), with the number of actual pills or liquids left up to the consumer to do the math based on the product they have selected to use.
__________________ WARNING: Written in minutes and fact-checked in seconds via Google. May contain unsafe levels of self-righteousness. Past cleverness is no guarantee of future results.
The GOAL is to keep The Goal the goal. -- Dan John
If it's important, do it everyday. -- Dan John
This sounds exactly backwards to me. It seems that if one is promoting fish oil, then a specific EPA+DHA target should be specified (e.g 3 grams total), with the number of actual pills or liquids left up to the consumer to do the math based on the product they have selected to use.
Look at the products I recommended - you will find the ratio will vary widely because this will depend on the reason for using the Omega 3. If for medical reasons then a specific ratio is vital but for fat loss research has demonstrated that it does not make that big of a difference. A general product such as the 720 blend will be fine. Total oil may actually be more important when it comes to fat loss than the ratio of EPA/DHA as long as you are you are using a quality brand of cause.
I think you missed my point - or I didn't make it well. I was not talking about EPA/DHA ratios.
All I was saying is that if one is making a recommendation, phrasing it as "3 g of EPA/DHA combined" is more specific and therefore clearer and easier to follow than a vague recommendation of 10 grams. I've seen others recommend 3 grams without specifying if that is overall or EPA/DHA that is intended.
3g of EPA/DHA combined can be calculated from the label of any product.
A vague 10 grams is not terribly useful in my opinion.
__________________ WARNING: Written in minutes and fact-checked in seconds via Google. May contain unsafe levels of self-righteousness. Past cleverness is no guarantee of future results.
The GOAL is to keep The Goal the goal. -- Dan John
If it's important, do it everyday. -- Dan John
Most people are idiots when it comes to nutrition so you need to keep it simple. Come on, how many people are going to sit down and calculate this? Most capsules come in 1000mg (1 gram) capsules so say 10 grams is a simple way to advise dosage. You need to think that the general public are not that clued up on nutrition which I guess this book is aimed for so much easier just to keep it simple.
If you do understand EPA/DHA ratio and dosage then you most likely not need this book. People try to make simple thing more complected than they need to be. Sure if I am working with a patient and advising precise dosage for a medical condition then I would get more specific but for fatloss????
I think it is possible to be both precise and clear in writing for the general public. YMMV.
__________________ WARNING: Written in minutes and fact-checked in seconds via Google. May contain unsafe levels of self-righteousness. Past cleverness is no guarantee of future results.
The GOAL is to keep The Goal the goal. -- Dan John
If it's important, do it everyday. -- Dan John
Have you read Alan Aragon's research review on fish oils? Evidence seems equivocal at best on the impact on fat loss...
I take krill oil which is meant to be more bioavailable thus you need less active ingredient - does anyone have a recommendation for actual active ingredient for krill? Despite its lack of evidence still like to take it just in case and has lots of other proven health benefits!
Most people are idiots when it comes to nutrition so you need to keep it simple. Come on, how many people are going to sit down and calculate this? Most capsules come in 1000mg (1 gram) capsules so say 10 grams is a simple way to advise dosage. You need to think that the general public are not that clued up on nutrition which I guess this book is aimed for so much easier just to keep it simple.
If you do understand EPA/DHA ratio and dosage then you most likely not need this book. People try to make simple thing more complected than they need to be. Sure if I am working with a patient and advising precise dosage for a medical condition then I would get more specific but for fatloss????
Most people are uneducated, not idiots.
What did you learn in high school that you actually use in your life?
Here my bottle of Nordic fish oil says 1000g / 180 softgels on the label, but when I looked at the ingredients it says: 2 softgels = 800mg (if I add up the omega 3 and 9)....
QUESTIONS:
1. So isn't that false labelling? Shouldn't the front read 180 softgels / 500mg, since I have to take 2 to make 1g?
2. So I should take 6 to = 3g of fish oil, is that what is being suggested here?
1-Lets remember what is being discussed is for the OPT Remix program. The requirements for protein and fats are minimum requirements. I don't think there is anything wrong or illogical about making a blanket statement of 10g fish oil when there is also fat that should be coming in from the diet. For this program duration (12 weeks) on a caloric restriction it is a very good recommendation when put along side a whole food diet as well.
2-Too much fish oil can be problematic. There is no need to go above certain levels due to blood thinning and decrease in immune function (on higher levels). Unless you are sick (severe joint problems, RA, etc) then keeping it in the 7-10 range of a standard 1g capsule is perfectly fine and enough in a hypocaloric diet and more than enough in a diet of maintenance.
When people start popping an excessive amount of fish oil in a day there might be some problems and then you are going to have a ridiculous backlash because, like always, people try and go overboard on a simple supplement. Remember the word supplement and its meaning.
Have you read Alan Aragon's research review on fish oils? Evidence seems equivocal at best on the impact on fat loss...
I take krill oil which is meant to be more bioavailable thus you need less active ingredient - does anyone have a recommendation for actual active ingredient for krill? Despite its lack of evidence still like to take it just in case and has lots of other proven health benefits!
There are a few studies, one specifically on PMS. I believe they went at a gram to gram ratio. I know Krill was better.
Evaluation of the effects of Neptune Krill Oil on the management of premenstrual syndrome and dysmenorrhea.
Sampalis F, Bunea R, Pelland MF, Kowalski O, Duguet N, Dupuis S.
Department of Experimental Surgery, University of Montreal, Montreal, Quebec, Canada. tina.sampalis@sympatico.ca
PRIMARY OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effectiveness of Neptune Krill Oil (NKO) for the management of premenstrual syndrome and dysmenorrhea. SECONDARY OBJECTIVE: To compare the effectiveness of NKO for the management of premenstrual syndrome and dysmenorrhea with that of omega-3 fish oil. METHODS/ DESIGN: Double-blind, randomized clinical trial. SETTING: Outpatient clinic. PARTICIPANTS: Seventy patients of reproductive age diagnosed with premenstrual syndrome according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Third Edition, Revised (DSM-III-R). INTERVENTIONS: Treatment period of three months with either NKO or omega-3 fish oil. OUTCOME MEASURES: Self-Assessment Questionnaire based on the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) diagnostic criteria for premenstrual syndrome and dysmenorrhea and number of analgesics used for dysmenorrhea. RESULTS: In 70 patients with complete data, a statistically significant improvement was demonstrated among baseline, interim, and final evaluations in the self assessment questionnaire (P < 0.001) within the NKO group as well as between-group comparison to fish oil, after three cycles or 45 and 90 days of treatment. Data analysis showed a significant reduction of the number of analgesics used for dysmenorrhea within the NKO group (comparing baseline vs. 45- vs. 90-day visit). The between-groups analysis illustrated that women taking NKO consumed significantly fewer analgesics during the 10-day treatment period than women receiving omega-3 fish oil (P < 0.03). CONCLUSION: Neptune Krill Oil can significantly reduce dysmenorrhea and the emotional symptoms of premenstrual syndrome and is shown to be significantly more effective for the complete management of premenstrual symptoms compared to omega-3 fish
Dose in the study itself...
Quote:
Each patient was asked to take two 1-gram
soft gels of either NKO or omega-3 18:12 fish oil
(fish oil containing 18% EPA and 12% DHA) once
daily with meals during the first month of the trial.
Evaluation of the effects of Neptune Krill Oil on the clinical course of hyperlipidemia.
Bunea R, El Farrah K, Deutsch L.
Department of Internal Medicine, McGill University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
OBJECTIVE: To assess the effects of krill oil on blood lipids, specifically total cholesterol, triglycerides, low-density lipoprotein (LDL), and high-density lipoprotein (HDL). METHODS: A multi-center, three-month, prospective, randomized study followed by a three-month, controlled follow-up of patients treated with 1 g and 1.5 g krill oil daily. Patients with hyperlipidemia able to maintain a healthy diet and with blood cholesterol levels between 194 and 348 mg per dL were eligible for enrollment in the trial. A sample size of 120 patients (30 patients per group) was randomly assigned to one of four groups. Group A received krill oil at a body mass index (BMI)-dependent daily dosage of 2-3 g daily. Patients in Group B were given 1-1.5 g krill oil daily, and Group C was given fish oil containing 180 mg eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and 120 mg docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) per gram of oil at a dose of 3 g daily. Group D was given a placebo containing microcrystalline cellulose. The krill oil used in this study was Neptune Krill Oil, provided by Neptune Technologies and Bioresources, Laval, Quebec, Canada. OUTCOME MEASURES: Primary parameters tested (baseline and 90-day visit) were total blood cholesterol, triglycerides, LDL, HDL, and glucose. RESULTS: Krill oil 1-3 g per day (BMI-dependent) was found to be effective for the reduction of glucose, total cholesterol, triglycerides, LDL, and HDL, compared to both fish oil and placebo. CONCLUSIONS: The results of the present study demonstrate within high levels of confidence that krill oil is effective for the management of hyperlipidemia by significantly reducing total cholesterol, LDL, and triglycerides, and increasing HDL levels. At lower and equal doses, krill oil was significantly more effective than fish oil for the reduction of glucose, triglycerides, and LDL levels.
Most people are uneducated, not idiots.
What did you learn in high school that you actually use in your life?
Here my bottle of Nordic fish oil says 1000g / 180 softgels on the label, but when I looked at the ingredients it says: 2 softgels = 800mg (if I add up the omega 3 and 9)....
QUESTIONS:
1. So isn't that false labelling? Shouldn't the front read 180 softgels / 500mg, since I have to take 2 to make 1g?
2. So I should take 6 to = 3g of fish oil, is that what is being suggested here?
THANKS,
Not to come across rude but most people are idiots when it comes to nutrition. They will spend $50k on a car but wont think twice about going to eat at McDonalds to save a few bucks.
I had someone come see me who was worth over 50M and had cancer yet when I suggested switching to organic food he complained that it was so expensive.... 6 months latter he died.
With the fish oil you are getting confused EPA/DHA is not fish oil. Fish oil contains EPA/DHA and different quantities. 1000mg of fish oil may contain only 400mg of EPA/DHA.
9kcal per gram but who cares. what does calories have to do with anything?
For many of us, especially smaller women who barely hit 2000 kcals burned on active days and are trying to stay in a deficit, 90 kcals is a big deal. If I was taking in nearly 100 kcals in fish oil / day while trying to only take in 1400 (for example), I'd want to know and factor it in.
Is there a reason you don't think calories matter?
Yes, because they don't really matter. The human body is a little more complex than calories in calories out. It's not how much you eat rather what you eat and each person has individual requirements based on their individual biochemistry.
Yes, because they don't really matter. The human body is a little more complex than calories in calories out. It's not how much you eat rather what you eat and each person has individual requirements based on their individual biochemistry.
Yes, the body is complex, but to imply that thermodynamics is a small factor in body composition is simply false. For example, one of the most important reasons for getting enough protein is to preserve muscle. One of the main benefits of preserving muscle from a bodycomp standpoint is to preserve resting metabolic rate -- which brings us back to the importance of thermodynamics (calories). While it's true that food sources of calories can make an impact on health in the long term, what influences body composition in large part is the manipulation of thermodynamics (calories).
__________________
Whatever you give a woman, she will make greater. If you give her sperm, she'll create a life. If you give her a house, she'll give you a home. If you give her groceries, she'll give you a meal. If you give her a smile, she'll give you her heart. ♥
at 5 foot 2 and 102lbs she consumes 3200 calories per day this is a little above what they would state she would need and not only that she dropped bodyfat on that many calories and is even more leaner now. I actually have over 300 of these cases tracked documented.
This chemical reaction of food in the organism is of more importance than the calories consumed - of cause if she consumed 7000 calories that would be a different story but she is not even capable of doing this.
The law of thermodynamics can not apply to an organism as there are many other complex biochemical functions occurring. It just does not pan out in the real world.
OPT Remix EFA Question
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