For those with only 10-15 pounds to lose or less

[fengshway]

Originally Posted by Espi

. There's a reason as to why many slower long-distance runners/cyclists are fatter than others.

yeah, but the boston qualifying times aren't exactly slow. I know what you mean about some of the women ultra runners and ultra cyclists, though. some of them carry quite a bit of body fat.


somewhere in the 22-24% body fat has always been my goal. lyle's stuff shows that that would be in an optimal range for health. I think where I got sidetracked was thinking about scale weight.

from now on, I am going to continue to participate in the challenges. but I am going to start posting my track times along with my pictures and my measurements, because at this point, those are my major motivators.

and today, my mile times in a long run say that a boston qualifier in november 09 is well within reach, even if I don't change body composition at all!!!!!

[fengshway]

Originally Posted by Espi

.

, Plus there's more.. someone who's not naturally lean will have a heck of a hard time to maintain a state of leanness that may look pleasing to the eye but wouldn't help with performance.l

.

I think there is alot of truth to this--and this also speaks to the whole difficulty of "losing the last 10", particularly when you have already lost a lot. as jane posted above, the body doesn't want to let go of that, so the stress hormones involved alone could hamper performance.

for me, I suspect, if I chose a very lean (for me) goal, like 19 percent, the stress of getting there and staying there during a 6 month marathon training program could clearly hamper performance.

by the same token, I suspect that as I move from 26.7% to 23% ish over the next several months during my OFF season from running, my performance will likely improve. I do not plan on having any long run over 7 miles until may. so I will not be cranking the mileage while doing any calorie deficit. so many of my friends make this mistake and I watch their performance suffer and their injury rate increase. marathon training is NOT the time for calorie deficits for most humans.

I am running my own little experiment of N=1.

[Espi]

Nope, you are right about that. BTDT. The long-distance training w/o adequate calories that is. A fast way to lose muscle, not fat, while putting yourself up for getting sick.

Bing slightly 'juicy' is where your performance will peak and 20-23% seems about just right..

[krispy1138]

This is what I took away from Lyle's article.

I want to look "in shape", which is about 15% body fat according to him. I'm 24-25% right now, so if I was lucky enough not to lose any LBM while dieting down, it would take me about 15 weeks if I lost 1 pound per week and would put me at 119 pounds, which seems low for my height (5'6).

If I wanted more like 18% (which were Leigh's guesses for the 2 looks I liked in the Tailoring a Look thread), it would take me about 11-1/2 weeks and put me around 123 lbs. Damn, that's still 12 lbs away.

[Espi]

123 lbs is 56 kg & you're 2 inches taller than me.. I just looked at the wt classes for Oly lifting .. hey a girl can dream, right? And thought there's no way I can get to 58 kg (the nearest wt class below current wt) while I'm even thinking I could use a few kg of extra muscle.
Too bad your bf% needs to be below a certain threshold in order to get a suitable P-ratio for LBM/fat gain.. Too fat to be bulking and not muscular enough to be cutting (hard).

[DanceDiva]

Originally Posted by krispy1138

I want to look "in shape", which is about 15% body fat according to him. I'm 24-25% right now, so if I was lucky enough not to lose any LBM while dieting down, it would take me about 15 weeks if I lost 1 pound per week and would put me at 119 pounds, which seems low for my height (5'6).

However, it should be noted that just losing body fat is not the only way to get there.

I'm 5'6" and have had my body fat tested using BodPod (weight 127.5 lbs) and electrode bioimpedence (weight 133 lbs). In both cases the result was 15.9%.

WRT this thread though, I didn't go on any regimen with the intention to reach that %.

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by Espi

Lost Dog, am using both BMI & bf%. And interesting YOU look at BMI as well, but at a bf% that's as low as you want it to be.
That's what I want too.. rather than drop to a BW that's far below a BMI of 25, I want to be as lean as I can get, without straying too far from the time-and-again proven-to-be-healthiest BMI of 25.
The reason a BMI of 25 is healthy is that this is a normal weight, yet gives you a bit of a cushion when disease strikes you and weight loss (alas lots of LBM) is a given.

I look at BMI only when I reminded of it by someone. Then, I tell you the ironic male angle for fun. Lou Schuler is obese by the BMI scale, but he's lean and in excellent shape.

We'll have to disagree, I guess, because a BMI of 25 still isn't healthy, it's just statistically healthy when you pick the BMI 25s from a large group.

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by foodfromafar

Wendy, I've been doing the same thing - trying to evaluate what a realistic final goal is for me. I have this strange phenomena that happens when I look in the mirror. I don't see accurately where I am, I see where I was.

Like this:


I found pictures of women of similar build/height with known body fat percentages to kind of guess what BF for myself I was thinking of in my mind. At the moment, I'm guessing 18%, but I'm not sure how realistic that is. I definitely do not ant to go below 18% for the reasons you mentioned. I like my curves. The main thing is I want to get rid of a little fat and add muscle which is the whole reason I signed up for Leigh's challenge in the first place. My bf has decreased for sure in the last 3 weeks. I didn't use my calipers for the starting stats. I just forgot really. After the first week (a drop of almost 3 lbs from starting stats and almost 4 lbs from actual start date), I was 20.4%. This week, I was 19.4% even though I only dropped 1/4 lb. Right now, 18% is looking pretty close to where I want to be.

I still catch myself reading the articles for chubby guys to dress for their body types.

[tcoy777]

Wow this post got me pretty depressed ready everyone bashing each other. I hate that. I thought the goal was to share our experiences and learn from each other.

I will share mine. I have lost over 40 pounds three times in my life. Two of those times I did basic dieting only, no real exercise program. I got to where I thought I was at a comfortable weight and stopped dieting. Of course I gained all the weight back. This last time, over two years ago, I exercised while I dieted. I lost the most weight ever. I actually lost almost 20 pounds more then the previous times just dieting.

Now to the point if it was easy or not. NO of course not. Compared to sitting on my couch and do nothing. What I have learned this last time is that I needed to get my metabolism cranking as fast as I could. From the age of 13 I have been battling the weight. Since running and lifting I can drop weight really fast now, kind of like what Karla was saying. Now did I like the way my body looked when I just dieted and ran all the time. NO WAY. I still thought I always looked Skinny Fat.

This past year since finding NROL and this site has been the best year of my life. I have gained 10 lbs, not all muscle, but most probably. So I guess my point to the last 10 pounds is this. What is the goal of that last 10 lbs or what ever number we put in our minds. Do we look or feel any better at our current weight then we would 10 pounds lighter?

For me the last 10 pounds were easier to lose then to gain those pounds back in muscle. But this is me, its how my body finally started to burn fat faster then any other time in my life. For my poor wife, loosing any weight is a struggle. She can eat healthy, workout 5 days a week and nothing. It upsets her when I can gain 10 lbs while on vacation and then loose it a week later. So I am very sympathetic to those that have a hard time loosing the weight no matter how hard you try.

To the running question that Wendy asked and why I stumbled upon this thread. For me running has been easier at my current weight of 173- 175 then when I was 163 - 165. My body is just stronger then when I was lighter. Sure I bet my body would be less stressed out running a marathon at say 150 lbs then 175, but I would look real sick at that weight. So for me the added muscle has helped me feel more confident now then before.

I hope this rambling may help someone. I am sorry that this post got off on the wrong foot. I don't know Leigh at all and have heard some wonderful things about you from some that have used your programs on here. I can say though that Karla has been a inspiration to me and a wonderful source of encouragement over the past year. So if anyone wishes to banish her from this site, this site in my opinion would suffer a great loss.

[Espi]

Tcoy, you wrote that beautifully!

Call me fickle but I'm suddenly torn on whether I want to stay closer to 63kg (a BMI of 25) or push for 58kg (BMI of 22.9). Am 3 kg away from that wt and sitting at 25%. Without any loss of LBM that would mean I'd be at a bf% of 20%. In theory that's doable.

The reason for changing my mind is that there may be a hypothetical case I'd be competing. In that case you'd have a choice between staying below 63kg or trying to get to 58kg. At 158-159cm 58kg might be more appropriate, but OTOH I seriously wonder if strength wouldn't go in the pits.. plus I still think I could & should build some more muscles.. especially in my hamstrings and lats/shoulders.
Culking is of course the only real answer, but it should be a bit more of a cut and a bit less of maintenance.
Considering how I feel now : at peace with my food choices and especially aware of how I feel with poorer food choices (dairy for several days in a row & even tiny pieces of gluten totally mess me up!) I should do fine ... The big Q is & remains: should or shouldn't I avoid legumes. I love beans & lentils very much, but it could very well be they don't love me back... hmmm sounds silly that your cheat food is going to be a jar of beans, isn't it?

[CloveApple]

Originally Posted by Espi

hmmm sounds silly that your cheat food is going to be a jar of beans, isn't it?

Nah, doesn't sound silly at all. Wherever the limit is, that's where the cravings go.

[tcoy777]

Originally Posted by Espi

.
Considering how I feel now : at peace with my food choices and especially aware of how I feel with poorer food choices (dairy for several days in a row & even tiny pieces of gluten totally mess me up!) I should do fine ... The big Q is & remains: should or shouldn't I avoid legumes. I love beans & lentils very much, but it could very well be they don't love me back... hmmm sounds silly that your cheat food is going to be a jar of beans, isn't it?

See I think this has been the biggest challenge for me in the past year. Finding what foods cause me problems holding on to weight. In the past I could just look at any food and gain weight. Now its more certain foods, be it mostly bad foods. Things that I thought would cause me problems like beer and other carbs are not a problem for me at all. I think after a few years of running, my body now knows how to use these carbs more easily then before. High sugar treats and some protein like red meat seem to be harder for me to balance the weight. I would assume it comes from a higher fat count then the carbs and lean meats. Once again I assume my body has adapted to my workouts and new life style and uses what it needs to processes those things.

Just my thoughts. I think that is the battle of weight loss. Trying to find that balance of what works for your individual lifestyle and body type.

[fengshway]

interesing discussion about food intolerances. For me, focusing on whole nonprocessed foods has been key. I am now about 3 weeks out from a 7 week psmf type deal, and my body is really happy to return to whole foods. I just have more energy and have stronger workouts. I have experienced some of what tcoy has experienced, in that my body seems to handle more carbs as I become more fit, particularly with the focus returning to running after being weights focused for so long. Other than nixing processed food, I haven't noticed that eliminating an entire food group has ever effected weight loss. If I eliminate something for extended periods of time, I end up overeating it. Fortunately I have no true food allergies, so I don't have to.

My recent experience with psmf was interesting. I lost bodyfat quickly, minimal lean loss, and have easily transitioned into a plan much higher in carbs with no rebound scale or fat gain. During that time, I knew the lower carb thing was temporary, so it made it ok for a set period of time. And fortunately, I can maintain the loss eating normally. I am not willing to live in restriction to be at a certain body fat, even if it means I never run Boston!

[roel88]

I have my own small fitness regime but unfortunately my work entails me to sit long hours thus I am developing ugly bulges. I wanted to shed atleast 5 lbs a month, Fengshway do you know a little exercise that would fit me?TIA

[fengshway]

hmmmm, on that note, I suspect it is time for this thread to retire.

troll watch in three-two-one......

[L'ilJ]

Wow, that's some personalized spam...

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by roel88

I have my own small fitness regime but unfortunately my work entails me to sit long hours thus I am developing ugly bulges. I wanted to shed atleast 5 lbs a month, Fengshway do you know a little exercise that would fit me?TIA

Eat less and your ugly bulges will go away.

Tia, spammer.

[foodfromafar]

Totally clueless???

[GqArtguy]

I just want to throw this picture in for the earlier part of this thread, I couldnt find it for the life of me until today:

[GinnyLou]

Originally Posted by GqArtguy

I just want to throw this picture in for the earlier part of this thread, I couldnt find it for the life of me until today:

[fengshway]

rrrrreow. hiss.

[josienj]

Originally Posted by fengshway

wow, so earlier in this thread I asked if there was anyone who is at goal after losing a significant amount of weight who found that the last 10 pounds was the same as any other weight loss, and so far, only one poster has found this to be the case. would love it if the fat loss professionals could comment here on their perception of this issue.

No way am I a fat loss professional, but wanted to chime in with my experience of losing a significant amount of weight and what I have gathered from other posts.

I lost 40 lbs after having my son by cutting calories and performing tons and tons of body weight exercises and walks in the park pushing the stroller. I actually overshot my goal of 30 lbs. I was not a scale watcher by any means and I think this may be one of the reasons why I overshot. The added stress of "only 10 pounds to go" wasn't there. After the 40lbs lost I was around 25% bf so that also may be a reason why I overshot. I still had more to go.

Lets fast forward to today. Now I'm starting at 25% and am finding that I have to stay on point a higher percentage of time, compared to my first lost, to drop pounds. I've also added weights into the mix and need to maintain energy levels and strength because I live an active life (3 full times: job, grad school, parent).

From what I got from the posts in this forum is the closer anyone gets to their ideal bf% the harder it will become to lose weight. It will come even more difficult for a person who goes past their ideal bf% to continue to lose weight.

What is "ideal" body fat is a debatable topic on its own.