To carb or not to carb?

[Lizanneh]

I've read a lot of things about timing whole grains after workouts (Precision Nutrition, for example), or avoiding grains altogether and getting your carbs from fruits and vegetables (Paleo diet). Although I try not to eat a ton of grains, and try to make the ones I eat primarily whole grains, I just can't manage to regularly avoid them, or even time them as is suggested by PN.

(The timing is difficult because I work out late at night, after dinner, so that basically means I can never have a grain with a meal, only as my post-workout snack. That just doesn't work for me!)

I am pretty lean now. I'm 112 lbs (5'1") and fairly well muscled. I would guess my body fat is around 18-20%. About 6 months ago, it was down to around 15%, and I weighed 108. My diet was pretty strict (especially with refined sugars and grains) and I just can't live that way all the time, so it's gotten back up a bit.

Is it possible for me to get that lean again while still eating grains, even when it's not just after a workout? What nutrition strategies are more supportive of a carb-lover like me? Just FYI - I typically eat around 33% fat, 33% carb, 34% protein, mostly from whole foods with no supplements. I eat a lot of dairy and animal protein - mostly chicken and fish.

[Lost Dog]

Yes. You probably just need to eat fewer calories (or burn more of them) to get that lean.

By and large, it's the calories that count. Don't eat fewer carbs, eat fewer calories.

[sunshinekisses]

Ditto to what Lost Dog said.

There isn't any magic about the methods you talked referenced.

Timing whole grains PWO is actually a bit "off". You'd be better served to have "high GI" or "simple carbs" (white rice, white pasta, non whole wheat bagels, sugar, milk etc.) in your post workout meal than whole grains.

Grain avoidance is also rather silly - unless of course they cause you digestion problems or you have an allergy that requires you to avoid them.

(The timing is difficult because I work out late at night, after dinner, so that basically means I can never have a grain with a meal, only as my post-workout snack. That just doesn't work for me!)

This is rather silly. You can eat whole grains throughout the day. As Lost Dog said, it's total calories that matter. Set your deficit, get adequate protein, EFAs, and fill in the rest of your calories how ever you want. If you want more whole grains, have more whole grains. So long as you are meeting your deficit, you are fine.

I am pretty lean now. I'm 112 lbs (5'1") and fairly well muscled. I would guess my body fat is around 18-20%. About 6 months ago, it was down to around 15%, and I weighed 108. My diet was pretty strict (especially with refined sugars and grains) and I just can't live that way all the time, so it's gotten back up a bit.

At 18-20% BF, you are already quite lean (assuming you are female?). Why do you want to get lower? For sport performance reasons? Are you about to compete in a fitness competition? Or is it purely for aesthetic reasons?

[LaraT]

When I was at my leanest I ate a diet about 65-70% carbs with most of them being *gasp* refined white flour products like bagels, pasta, and pretzels (not advocating a diet like that just saying) I was a vegetarian and poor student so didn't spend much on food. My calories were on target though which is what is most important for most people. I am 5'2 and at that time was about 108 lbs with not tons of muscle but decent amount and had nice definition.

IMO the whole carb thing has been waaaay overblown. Some people really don't handle them well but I suspect the true "carb intolerant" are few and far between.

[sunshinekisses]

One thing I had intended to mention re: carbs which I forgot:

The one benefit of low carb while dieting (for some people) is that it is appetite blunting which can make the dieting process "easier". This isn't universal though. There are some who just can't function on low carb diets - and since it's not necessary, they don't have to eliminate carbs.

[Lizanneh]

Originally Posted by sunshinekisses

Grain avoidance is also rather silly - unless of course they cause you digestion problems or you have an allergy that requires you to avoid them.

I think grain avoidance is just another way of getting people to eat fewer calories, which is the point that all of you are making. If I eat chicken, rice, and broccoli for dinner, I'm going to eat more calories than if I just eat chicken and broccoli for dinner, even if I fill my plate with broccoli.

Originally Posted by sunshinekisses

This is rather silly. You can eat whole grains throughout the day.

I was just saying that it's nearly impossible for me to eat the PN way because of the timing of my workouts. Berardi's materials seem to assume most people work out before breakfast or dinner.

Originally Posted by sunshinekisses

At 18-20% BF, you are already quite lean (assuming you are female?). Why do you want to get lower? For sport performance reasons? Are you about to compete in a fitness competition? Or is it purely for aesthetic reasons?

My waist was thinner when I was about 16% body fat and I aesthetically liked those measurements better. I'm certainly not fat now, not by a long shot, but my belly is not as flat as it was earlier this year and I'd like to get back to that. I also have been building some really nice leg muscles, but I can't really see them and would like my legs to get a bit leaner. I'm also in the Turbulence Training contest and while I looked too good at the beginning to win (in my opinion), I still would like to look better in my "after" pictures than I did in my "before" pictures.

Thanks for the input, everyone. I think I may just stop stressing out about nutrient timing and go back to a daily deficit or even use Eat Stop Eat to manage myself to a decent weekly average, which worked pretty well for me in the past.