The Fat Loss TroubleshootThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. This section is led by Leigh Peele, author of "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot," the ultimate fat loss manual. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
Hi Thanks for taking the time to be my diet detectives and helping me solve the case of the 133 plateau :p
I've been dieting for about 13 weeks now, I'm 5'8" and my starting weight was 141lbs, I know according to all those charts, that weight could be perfectly suitable for somebody at my height, but, my bodyfat was REALLY high from years of being on the binge like crazy fri-sun and start over again on monday diet. Prior to this I maintained a steady weight of 125lbs through consistent lifting/cardio and being a mindful eater. Here's a breakdown of my weight loss so far, these are based on weekly weigh ins, done on the same day, same time etc.
AHHH! I know that I still have bodyfat to lose, despite being at a seemingly low bodyweight, I have a VERY small frame.
Here's what i've been doing, i lift 4x per week, compound moves, i vary my reps/sets weekly to avoid adapting too quickly, i mix up the exercises every 4-6 weeks (box squats vs front squats etc). I do cardio 3-4x per week for 30mins, its always some type of run/walk interval training, but i wear a HRM and my heart rate generally stays in the 150-170ish range. I also try walking as much as possible, i walk for 30 minutes each night, i walk to and from the gym, i take the stairs whenever i can etc. In terms of diet, i weigh every morsel of food that goes into my mouth, and i cycle my calories, my range is anywhere from 1200-1500 calories, a 1200 calorie day would be on a VERY sedentary day, maybe a steady state cardio day..or a rest day, a 1500 calorie day is on a day where i do both weights and cardio on the same day. the 1400-1500 calorie days happen way more than the lower days. In terms of macros, my fat is usually around 30-35%, protein is usually around 30-40%, and carbs are usually around 30-40%. I eat VERY little boxed/canned foods, i eat a lot of fruit, oats, greek yogurt, cottage cheese, eggs, lean meats, low-fat dairy, veggies, ezekiel bread, nuts/nut butters, olive oil, beans etc.
Hi Thanks for taking the time to be my diet detectives and helping me solve the case of the 133 plateau :p
I've been dieting for about 13 weeks now, I'm 5'8" and my starting weight was 141lbs, I know according to all those charts, that weight could be perfectly suitable for somebody at my height, but, my bodyfat was REALLY high from years of being on the binge like crazy fri-sun and start over again on monday diet. Prior to this I maintained a steady weight of 125lbs through consistent lifting/cardio and being a mindful eater. Here's a breakdown of my weight loss so far, these are based on weekly weigh ins, done on the same day, same time etc.
AHHH! I know that I still have bodyfat to lose, despite being at a seemingly low bodyweight, I have a VERY small frame.
Here's what i've been doing, i lift 4x per week, compound moves, i vary my reps/sets weekly to avoid adapting too quickly, i mix up the exercises every 4-6 weeks (box squats vs front squats etc). I do cardio 3-4x per week for 30mins, its always some type of run/walk interval training, but i wear a HRM and my heart rate generally stays in the 150-170ish range. I also try walking as much as possible, i walk for 30 minutes each night, i walk to and from the gym, i take the stairs whenever i can etc. In terms of diet, i weigh every morsel of food that goes into my mouth, and i cycle my calories, my range is anywhere from 1200-1500 calories, a 1200 calorie day would be on a VERY sedentary day, maybe a steady state cardio day..or a rest day, a 1500 calorie day is on a day where i do both weights and cardio on the same day. the 1400-1500 calorie days happen way more than the lower days. In terms of macros, my fat is usually around 30-35%, protein is usually around 30-40%, and carbs are usually around 30-40%. I eat VERY little boxed/canned foods, i eat a lot of fruit, oats, greek yogurt, cottage cheese, eggs, lean meats, low-fat dairy, veggies, ezekiel bread, nuts/nut butters, olive oil, beans etc.
if you have any Q's feel free to ask!!
How many 1200cal days do you have in a week? My take would suggest, "drop your calories." ... More 1200cal days, or drop the 1200 to 1100cal
How many 1200cal days do you have in a week? My take would suggest, "drop your calories." ... More 1200cal days, or drop the 1200 to 1100cal
Don't you think 1100 cal on a regular basis is pushing the envelope? I mean isn't there a theoretical limit on how low you should go? I don't really know the answer to that, that's why I'm asking.
would dropping lower be counterproductive? if i'm fairly active and eating super low calorie..couldn't that halt my weight loss even more?
in terms of a break, once every 2 weeks i've been eating at maintenance or a little higher (usually around 2250cals) for 1 day.
Should i go on a break for a longer period of time? thanks!
would dropping lower be counterproductive? if i'm fairly active and eating super low calorie..couldn't that halt my weight loss even more?
in terms of a break, once every 2 weeks i've been eating at maintenance or a little higher (usually around 2250cals) for 1 day.
Should i go on a break for a longer period of time? thanks!
I HIGHLY doubt that the issue is that you are eating too much to see any scale loss (if what you say about weighing your food is 95% true).
I agree. I don't know much about the diet break, but I don't think that 1100-1500 calories could not be a low enough deficit. I mean it is possible, just seems pretty unlikely. It doesn't seem right to go below that for any extended period of time. You're in about 1000+ calorie deficit.
I agree. I don't know much about the diet break, but I don't think that 1100-1500 calories could not be a low enough deficit. I mean it is possible, just seems pretty unlikely. It doesn't seem right to go below that for any extended period of time. You're in about 1000+ calorie deficit.
PS: Isn't 125 also fairly low at 5'8" ?
I think the healthy rational thing to do is a 2 week diet break. But then it will be probably 3 to 5 weeks from now to know whether that was the right move. Since it will take minimum 1 week to recover from the diet break. It took me a month to recover from my diet break where I ate about 2000 cal / day during that break.
I wound up frustrated again, and wound up giving up rational sense, dropped my calories lower and began losing weight weekly.
So opt for health and patience and do the diet break, hopefully you'll resume losing.
On the other hand, you really started stalling at week 9, so that's why I think you calories are too high. For some crazy reason, a drop of 500-700 cal per week seems to be able to cause more than the equivalent fat loss, just puts your body back into fat loss mode. Thoughts for stubborn irrational bodies.
thanks for the feedback everyone. So I should either
A. Take a diet break
B. Reduce overall caloric intake or
C. Diet break, reevaluate progress a few weeks after, reduce cals if needed.
phew.
do you all think purchasing something like the bodybugg/gowear could be helpful? to get a better understanding of what my deficit actually is?
also, yeah 125 at 5'8" looks low on paper for sure, but I'm 'naturally' (aka prior to being a bingey dingbat) lean. I had tons of energy, was able to indulge without any ill effects on the scale, had strength to lift & what not.
You should take 10-14 days to take a deit break and eat a maintenance- NOT to over eat and go nuts. Treat your diet break the same way as you would dieting by tracking everything you eat if that's what it takes to prevent you from over eating during your diet break.
After 10-14 days, continue where you left off. If after 2 weeks you are still plateaued, then consider lowering your cals.
Based on your stats and the activity you engage in, I would think you should be fine with cals at 1200-1500 so long as the 1500 days aren't more prevalent than your 1200 days. However, if after 2 weeks you aren't losing, then lower them.
You should take 10-14 days to take a deit break and eat a maintenance- NOT to over eat and go nuts. Treat your diet break the same way as you would dieting by tracking everything you eat if that's what it takes to prevent you from over eating during your diet break.
After 10-14 days, continue where you left off. If after 2 weeks you are still plateaued, then consider lowering your cals.
Based on your stats and the activity you engage in, I would think you should be fine with cals at 1200-1500 so long as the 1500 days aren't more prevalent than your 1200 days. However, if after 2 weeks you aren't losing, then lower them.
I'm with this. I still don't know about going lower than 1200, but I guess that's just my opinion. That's over 1000 calorie deficit for you, and for someone who isn't overweight or obese, it seems like way too much. But go with the diet break first and hopefully that will do it
I'm with this. I still don't know about going lower than 1200, but I guess that's just my opinion. That's over 1000 calorie deficit for you, and for someone who isn't overweight or obese, it seems like way too much. But go with the diet break first and hopefully that will do it
We don't really know what her deficit and maintenance are. We know what the formula says, that's all. Formulas are estimates and educated guesses. For instance, I have to go 200+ calories lower than most formulas come up with to lose weight.
If she was in a deficit, she would lose weight.
A diet break might get her going again to some degree. Give her the mental fortitude to ride this out longer and also get the metabolism back up there a little bit.
We don't really know what her deficit and maintenance are. We know what the formula says, that's all. Formulas are estimates and educated guesses. For instance, I have to go 200+ calories lower than most formulas come up with to lose weight.
If she was in a deficit, she would lose weight.
A diet break might get her going again to some degree. Give her the mental fortitude to ride this out longer and also get the metabolism back up there a little bit.
No I know, but assuming the estimate, it's still pushing 1000+ plus, even if you are off by a couple hundred. The diet break is a great idea. I would just be skeptical about calories that low, not to mention I think it's damn near impossible to get a sufficient amount of nutrients from food that way. Maybe it's just my own thought process/opinion. I just think there is a point at which you have to change the "if that doesn't work, just keep lowering calories" thought process. Hence the reason I love the diet break idea.
Did you read the article Lara posted? It's not just this specific deficit. There are physiological and psychological reasons for taking a diet break and these can occur for even less severe deficits.
While I don't disagree with your opinion/reasoning on the low calories (as I think the diet break is warranted), I think the thought you just stated would be better served as a separate thread of discussion.
We don't really know what her deficit and maintenance are. We know what the formula says, that's all. Formulas are estimates and educated guesses. For instance, I have to go 200+ calories lower than most formulas come up with to lose weight.
If she was in a deficit, she would lose weight.
A diet break might get her going again to some degree. Give her the mental fortitude to ride this out longer and also get the metabolism back up there a little bit.
Had she been 3 weeks into dieting and coming with the same question, I could see where you're line of thinking would apply. However, you seem to be missing the important piece of information where she states she has been dieting for 13 WEEKS. This is significant.
Based solely on her weight and height, my assumptions would put her in what Lyle McDonald classifies as a category 1 dieter, category 2 at the max. Category 1 and 2 dieters need diet breaks after extended periods of dieting for metabolic reasons and hormone level restoration. It's not about restoring "mental fortitude" to continue with dieting, or about getting "the metabolism back up there a bit". It's about getting the metabolism back up to where it should be so that fat loss can continue.
As DanceDiva reinforced, check out the link Lara posted.
Did you read the article Lara posted? It's not just this specific deficit. There are physiological and psychological reasons for taking a diet break and these can occur for even less severe deficits.
While I don't disagree with your opinion/reasoning on the low calories (as I think the diet break is warranted), I think the thought you just stated would be better served as a separate thread of discussion.
No I know, but assuming the estimate, it's still pushing 1000+ plus, even if you are off by a couple hundred. The diet break is a great idea. I would just be skeptical about calories that low, not to mention I think it's damn near impossible to get a sufficient amount of nutrients from food that way. Maybe it's just my own thought process/opinion. I just think there is a point at which you have to change the "if that doesn't work, just keep lowering calories" thought process. Hence the reason I love the diet break idea.
Sorry, but there's a lot of wishful thinking going on here. She's a new dieter, and she lost a few lbs. Then she stopped losing at around the 8 week point. The need for a diet break would have come much later than eight weeks.
Even at 13 weeks, the symptoms of needing a break would have been unlikely to show. A diet break is going to fend of a plateau or fat loss slowdown that could occur if you kept going at full bore. At week 13? Maybe. Most likely, it would slow and get frustrating a few weeks or months later than this.
Most people who just start dieting can go months and months without a serious plateau. Not that a diet break wouldn't be useful at some point, or have provided more fat loss, but for most of us, fat loss doesn't STOP, it slows 10-20%. Maybe 30%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshinekisses
Had she been 3 weeks into dieting and coming with the same question, I could see where you're line of thinking would apply. However, you seem to be missing the important piece of information where she states she has been dieting for 13 WEEKS. This is significant.
Since she stopped losing at around 8 weeks, by my count she's been at maintenance, and therefore on a diet break, for the past 5 weeks. Time to diet again.
Quote:
Based solely on her weight and height, my assumptions would put her in what Lyle McDonald classifies as a category 1 dieter, category 2 at the max. Category 1 and 2 dieters need diet breaks after extended periods of dieting for metabolic reasons and hormone level restoration. It's not about restoring "mental fortitude" to continue with dieting, or about getting "the metabolism back up there a bit". It's about getting the metabolism back up to where it should be so that fat loss can continue.
I didn't see any categories in that article, but that article did cover the mental fortitude aspects and raising the metabolism back up.
Quote:
But what if, instead of facing that huge mountain, you knew that you only had to go say, 10-12 weeks of dieting before getting a break for 2 weeks where you could eat relatively ‘normally’ (note: this does NOT mean returning to your old horrible eating habits) before starting the next phase of active weight loss? Suddenly, that might seem a whole hell of a lot more doable.
Quote:
When folks diet and lose weight/fat, the body adjusts metabolic rate downwards. While a majority of this is simply due to weighing less (smaller bodies burn fewer calories), there is also an adaptive component, a greater decrease in metabolic rate than would be predicted due to changes in things like leptin, insulin, thyroid hormones, etc.
Sorry, but there's a lot of wishful thinking going on here. She's a new dieter, and she lost a few lbs. Then she stopped losing at around the 8 week point. The need for a diet break would have come much later than eight weeks.
Even at 13 weeks, the symptoms of needing a break would have been unlikely to show. A diet break is going to fend of a plateau or fat loss slowdown that could occur if you kept going at full bore. At week 13? Maybe. Most likely, it would slow and get frustrating a few weeks or months later than this.
I disagree. She may be a "new" dieter, but she's not got a lot to lose. That brings me back to the categorization of dieters that Lyle talks about. People with less to lose need to take breaks more often for metabolic reasons.
I'd like to argue that the slow of weight loss at 8 weeks is the indicator that it was time for a diet break at that point. (This is of course assuming that calories were spot on)
Quote:
Most people who just start dieting can go months and months without a serious plateau. Not that a diet break wouldn't be useful at some point, or have provided more fat loss, but for most of us, fat loss doesn't STOP, it slows 10-20%. Maybe 30%.
For a woman, and anyone with not much to lose, that 30% slow down vs the 10% could mean the difference between losing 1 lb every 2 weeks or 1lb every month.
Quote:
Since she stopped losing at around 8 weeks, by my count she's been at maintenance, and therefore on a diet break, for the past 5 weeks. Time to diet again.
Not necessarily. She could be holding water, masking any weight loss that could still be going on.
I have to agree with LD on this one. First, he has a lot more experience with diets and how to manipulate them. Second, the classification of cat1 and cat2 dieters has to do with the RFL diet. It's clear she is not doing that. Third, as LD said, since weight loss has stopped there is no real call for a diet break.
What I would do -
- drop cals to 1100 per day, every day. Cycling is obviously not working. I'd adjust the macros to 60P/25F/15C. Of the 30f of F per day I would get 10G from fish oils (I hope you're taking fish oils anyway).
- you didn't detail what your training was but I would scale that back too. I'd drop back to 2 days of lifting, rep range 8-12, of squat variation, deadlift variation, pec variation and row variation. Probably throw in planks for some core work.
I'd do that for a month and see where I was at.
__________________
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
Hi Thanks for taking the time to be my diet detectives and helping me solve the case of the 133 plateau :p
I've been dieting for about 13 weeks now, I'm 5'8" and my starting weight was 141lbs, I know according to all those charts, that weight could be perfectly suitable for somebody at my height, but, my bodyfat was REALLY high from years of being on the binge like crazy fri-sun and start over again on monday diet. !!
I havea question...how did your binge eating on weekends make your bodyfat only higher? Wouldnt it have contributed to total bw increase? What makes you think this is what made you change your body composition upwards?
I have to agree with LD on this one. First, he has a lot more experience with diets and how to manipulate them. Second, the classification of cat1 and cat2 dieters has to do with the RFL diet. It's clear she is not doing that. Third, as LD said, since weight loss has stopped there is no real call for a diet break.
What I would do -
- drop cals to 1100 per day, every day. Cycling is obviously not working. I'd adjust the macros to 60P/25F/15C. Of the 30f of F per day I would get 10G from fish oils (I hope you're taking fish oils anyway).
- you didn't detail what your training was but I would scale that back too. I'd drop back to 2 days of lifting, rep range 8-12, of squat variation, deadlift variation, pec variation and row variation. Probably throw in planks for some core work.
I'd do that for a month and see where I was at.
x3 and 4.... Even in the lower bf% as a dieter it is still about calories in versus out. If you are dieting and maintaing then you do not have to worry so much about diet breaks so much. I believe it is only is you are cutting severely does the statement apply that you need to take more frequent breaks.
__________________
The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Speaking as one with low bodyfat who plateaued for a YEAR despite strictly dieting the whole time (and who started to lose when I resumed a HIGHER caloric intake with less activity once a diet break was followed for 2 weeks)... if she is dieting and maintaining she might need a diet break. Certainly the idea taking 2 weeks to eat at maintenance and then resuming a focused approach shouldn't create such a rigid insistence on less is more.
I have to agree with LD on this one. First, he has a lot more experience with diets and how to manipulate them. Second, the classification of cat1 and cat2 dieters has to do with the RFL diet. It's clear she is not doing that. Third, as LD said, since weight loss has stopped there is no real call for a diet break.
I'm no pro, though I have tons of experience with dieting and mainuplating diets. I've been through the "just keep lowering cals", "it's all about cals in vs cals out" blah blah blah. I've since learnt otherwise and have had nothing but success by following the guidelines and diets of an expert/pro: Lyle McDonald..
And the categorization of dieters is not just for RFL. It applies to Flexible Dieting principles as well.
Just popping in to say that I'm 5'8.5" and will likely also need to hit around 125 to reach my goal size/look/BF at which it's beneficial to work on building LBM rather than continue with fat loss. (Currently 140ish and still a size 10--very small bone structure.) We are out there.
__________________
They call me Amanda, that being my real name, and "They" being people who know me in person as I don't go around introducing myself in real life as "scribess." 'Cause that would just be strange.
Yikes, didn't need to read this. I'm 5'8" and started with a goal of 175 (from 250 now at ~187) lowered goal to 160 and then 150 - just so I could say I lost 100lbs and realizing from Leigh's blog I needed to go there. Now wondering if I'll need to go even lower. This was me 1985ish (25 years old) probably around 135 lbs, no muscle tone.
So I know I can go lower - the rapid fat loss calculator has me at 120lb LBM (ditto omron or tanita measurements). seems high considering I was down this low at one time.
Just realized I'm highjacking a thread, sorry
7 week plateau, AH! Leigh, anyone, help!
Thanks for taking the time to be my diet detectives and helping me solve the case of the 133 plateau :p
Linear Mode
