The Fat Loss TroubleshootThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. This section is led by Leigh Peele, author of "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot," the ultimate fat loss manual. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
I totally agree with the walking, though I have to admit I was a slacker this past week. Okay, okay, I'll go for a walk this morning.
There was a time in the past I lost a good amount of weight following Weight Watchers, but my primary form of exercise was an hour walk each day. I also did do weights, but not much other cardio.
When I started my weight loss this time around I focused on walking also. When I get that morning walk in, I have no trouble meeting my caloric burn for the day. Leave it out though, and I probably won't get there.
I have a body that does not seem to want to lose scale weight, or processes/uses my food very efficiently (uses most of the foods calories, instead of eliminating them), or just adjusts to steady days of low calories whatever the low number. I am not clear about this logic, but:
Mathematically, not much caloric difference, but very different results:
a. First 11 weeks of deficit, caloric avg 1343 cal, .25 lb per week loss
b. Diet break of 2 weeks
c. Current 10 weeks of deficit, caloric avg 1213 cal, 1.5 lb per week loss
Major difference seems to be carb cycling. Current 10 weeks: 4 weeks of EatStopEat, then 1 week of alternative carb up/down, then the past 5 weeks 900x5 and 2000x2. The most recent 5 weeks has been the best: not EatStopEat, but rather 5 low calorie days with low carbs, and 2 higher calorie days with higher carb but low fat.
It will be interesting to see if this continues, and carb-cycling tricks my body into not getting used to the lower calories.
If anything, I'm exercising less, sometimes not exercising at all, only NEAT, but my deficit has been about the same throughout the 23 weeks: 750 cal - 1300 cal deficit daily
Well, I spoke too soon (again). I'm always so afraid to have a victory, because inevitably after a few weeks of victory, some invisible chain comes out from nowhere, and yanks me back up a few pounds for absolutely no reason.
Up until this past Friday I was losing weight! The scale wasn’t fluctuating crazily anymore, and I was working my way down at an even 2-3 pounds a week. My calories have been about 900-1200 calories a day. I went from 245 from the weekend of the September 12th to 236.2 on October 8. So I’d basically lost about 9 pounds in a month. Last Friday, my weight started going back up, for no reason!
10/9 - 236.5
10/10 - 236.7
10/12 - 239.1
10/13 - 240.2
10/14 - 239.5
10/15 - 240.4
10/16 - 240.9
What in the world????!!!! This is what I've gone through for the past 1 1/2 years. I get to the mid-230s, and this craziness starts every time. Last Friday morning my father-in-law went into the hospital unexpectedly, both of my children got sick with their asthma, I received loan paperwork that had to be processed, and my mother in law stayed with us while my father-in-law was in the hospital, and now I myself am starting with a chest cold -- all at the same time.
It was extremely hard to keep track of everything this past week, but having worked so hard the last several weeks, even under all the stress of the weekend, I still made mental notes about how much I was eating, and never overate. By Monday morning 10/12, I weighed 239.1. Is this my body's response to stress?? I've had cortisol checked twice and it's always okay -- so I just don't understand this. My body is out of control. It's such a helpless feeling to have to just stand and watch your body do this.
I tried to tell myself it was just water. “No one gains fat that fast,” they tell you. I could tell on Monday morning that I was dehydrated from the weekend; I hadn’t been able to keep up with my water intake, and my urine was really dark. I got back on the horse with my diet and with my water immediately. Today is Friday, and my weight just goes up and up and up a little each day. I've been on the treadmill for an hour EVERY day this week. It’s as if I get to the mid 230s and I suddenly get yanked back up several pounds by some invisible chain! It just doesn’t make any sense.
I tell myself it’s “just water,” but if it is, then why does it take me 3 weeks to lose it? It should come back off in just a few days after you start drinking again. What becomes discouraging is to work so hard for a month, gain nearly four pounds in six days that shouldn’t be fat because “no one gains fat that fast”, but then it takes you another three weeks to get that off, and the whole thing starts all over again. In other words -- I basically stay where I am.
My observations have been that 1) When I reduce calories and/or carbs, I begin losing water. 2) In the water loss phase, the scale goes down. 3) After the water loss phase, no fat loss occurs. At this point, weight begins to fluctuate wildly, and inches are never eventually lost. 4) Discouragement sets in and I’m back at ground zero. The bottom line is that my body is not burning fat. I gain water and lose water at the drop of a hat, but I am not burning fat. I've had all the obvious blood tests, but there's something else going on here. I know what my weights are, because I have been keeping a detailed journal of my weights, feelings, goings-ons, since July 23. That document is now 45 pages long. If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t take the time. Now, I had some labs done last week, and my doctor called on Tuesday and told me that my Vit D was low (nothing unusual), and that my Vit B-1 was low. The latter was a new one. I went to the store last night and bought the needed supplements.
As I was standing in the aisle, I began noticing that a lot of the supplements had different colored strips on them telling you what they were for. The B1 fell under metabolism support, so I looked to see what other vitamins were in that category. There was one called L-Carnitine. I read the back and it said it helps with getting your fat to burn. I am so desperate at this point to find an answer. I thought it was interesting so I bought it too.
I came home and read about it before taking it. I've never heard of this before, but a few things I find interesting. Our bodies make carnitine, and you can be deficient in it. There's primary Carnitine deficiency (you're born with it and have problems at birth), and then there's secondary Carnitine deficiency that occurs in adulthood. Secondary carnitine deficiency has a few interesting characteristics:
1. It can be brought on by bouts of fasting & starvation (my gastric bypass?)
2. Usually occurs in people who have malabsorption (definite gastric bypass side effect)
3. Causes your body not to go into ketosis. I thought this was VERY interesting. I lost 60 pounds on Atkins about ten years ago, but since surgery have been unable to get my body to burn fat/go into ketosis. I lose the water but don't burn fat. This past spring I got to where for one day I ate SO much fat and NO carbs that I felt sick -- and still couldn't turn those ketostix any colors!! I felt so bad physically at that point, that I had to add carbs back in.
Would love to hear anyone weigh in on this (no pun intended).
I too, have baaad water retention problems; besides being really overweight I take an anti-seizure medication with bad water retention as a side-effect. Factor in occasional dehydration or PMS and I can gain several pounds overnight even while on a 1000 calorie deficit. Also, because almost every female in my family (who are thinner than I) has diabetes, I am trying to make sure my carbs come almost exclusively from fresh fruit and veggies - no starches and I limit the total number of carbs to 20-25% of total (~105 g/day). Less carbs, less starch = less water retention as well. So for example, I had some starchy treats for my anniversary on Wednesday but kept overall calories about the same as usual (i.e., still had big deficit). Bam! The next morning (Thursday am) I was TWO pounds heavier. Now I sure as heck didn't have 7,000 extra calories, it's just water. This morning I've lost one of the pounds of water already.
Even when you know it's just water, it sucks when the scale goes up. So, drink yer water and if you know that your retaining water maybe skip the weigh-in the next day, sometimes it's better for keeping your outlook positive.
Water rule of thumb: 5 clear urinations/day, at least 2 after exercise
Hazeldazel -- I would LOVE to believe it's water, but I become suspicious when my weight is consistently moving up every day. Your weight gain was overnight from your anniversary meal, and you've already lost part of that within just a day or two. For me, two pounds was gained overnight -- but it's still going up gradually every day, even though I'm shoveling in the water and staying on top of my exercise. It's been four days, and not only have I not lost anything, but my weight KEEPS going up? I thought, "Okay, maybe I'm still losing fat, so let me ignore the scale." So I measured, but no results there either. Aaarrgh!! :|
okay, you've gained about 4 pounds in a week. That means if you gained 4 pounds of fat in a week then you've eaten 14,000 calories over maintenance in that week and your exercise was such that none of that went to building muscle. Sound likely? No. However, 1 measely gallon of water is ~8.5 pounds.
I have lost a pound of water already but I've been drinking water like a mofo, taking potassium, exercising, etc.
Oh, here's a thought... I had a several-day-long weight gain a couple weeks ago that was baffling, and without being too TMI, it ended when I added more fiber to my diet.
What I've been finding is that some bodies are very particular about the mystery of metabolizing the food. I don't yet have answers to my sleuthing, but what's been going on with me for 6 weeks now, I've been losing 1.5 lbs per week which is remarkable.
Here's what's curious:
My total calories for the week, averaged to daily calories, is not all that different than what it was when I was eating a haphazard 900-1400 cal / day, thinking that if I averaged out to 1300 cal / day it would cause weight loss, but it didn't.
The one weekend that I ate high carb, but also ate high fat, and much of it processed carb/fat, was the one week that I showed a 4 lb gain on the scale Monday morning, and it took 11 days to recover that 4 lbs and begin to lose again.
When I keep my weekends high carb, high protein, low fat, and my weekdays low calories (high protein, healthy fat, low carb vegies and fruit, (my range has been 700-1000cal but I weigh less than you), I have had results of lower scale numbers and lower measurements.
I am pretty specific now about what I'm doing. I have target macros for the weekend, and it seems if I hit these macros, I don't show much gain the next days.
I don't really know why. I think:
1. My body quickly gets used to a low calorie number, and stops losing, and the 2 high carb days are reminding my body it's not really starving.
2. My body is sensitive to something in the macro combinations and the processed foods, (even relatively healthy processed foods, like crab cake or pizza as opposed to donuts).
I don't really know what to tell you, except you might want to try to get one of those telephone coaching calls with Leigh.. when Body For EATS launches, or she'll be available for coaching on her forum in a few weeks.
When I carb cycled 1high 3 low 1high 2 low, it did not work. Leigh suggested "I got the best results in my girls on 2high, 5 low"... I switched to that and started losing.... weird huh?
Keep at it, persevere, be certain your calories aren't higher than you think. Are they? Where are you logging them?
I was not losing on an average of 1350cal, but am losing on an average of 1150-1220 cal, with the same deficit, so it's just not mathematical.
Oh, I've mostly cut out the protein shakes because they digest so easily and on 700-900 cal, I want food. I'm also eating plain, healthy foods: chicken breast and acorn squash w/ 7g walnuts and 7g dried cranberries is a current favorite.
Good luck. If you're numbers are going up for more than 2 weeks, change what you're doing.
You have not gained fat this week. Period. Unless you are delusional and eating more than you report, or you are somehow getting up at night and eating an entire cake. It is physically impossible to gain that much fat in a week.
I would suggest you IGNORE the scale. You are super stressed out, anxious, who knows what your hormones are doing. KEEP DOING WHAT YOU KNOW YOU NEED TO DO. Control what you can, and don't pay any attention to what you can't control. One week is nothing in a weight loss journey, don't let it get to you.
My concern for you is that you have something like this trend on the scale, and you let it bother you so much you give up. I did that repeatedly until I figured out that I would just keep doing what I knew I had to do and not come up with any excuses for falling off the wagon.
Here's your test, now, and you have to decide what you're going to do. In the past, when you had these setbacks, what did you do? Give up? Start overeating? That was what I did. Don't let it happen. Keep up the good work, know you are doing the right thing, and give it a month. Losing 9 pounds is nothing to sneeze at, just keep going. The 4 that came back are not real. They are water, most likely 'cause of stress or undersleeping or hormonal fluctuations.
Just take a deep breath, and continue with the plan. Measurements are not reliable at your weight, how are your clothes fitting? Are you making fitness gains? Use some other measure than the scale if you must--even psychological measurements--anything! Making progress in your attitude is a great accomplishment.
You can do it, but you have to have patience and just keep going, no matter what. Personally, I only take seriously the weight I see on Fridays, 'cause that's after 4 days of hard calorie cutting. But even once a month may be better for you--if you had only seen 5 pounds in one month, you would be happy, right? Patience!
Remember, you already know you can gain water like crazy. You already know you're really stressed this past week. Do some yoga or walk to relax and just tell yourself to not get too worried about this.
Okay guys -- thank you for talking me off my ledge! Figuratively speaking of course! Hazeldazel, what you said about the whoosh -- maybe that's something to be looking forward to! My body's doing whatever it's doing for whatever reason, but I guess I have to keep telling myself that if I keep going I'll eventually see results.
I HAVE had lots of these experiences in the last 1 1/2 years, and have always tried to push myself past it for a week or two, and then give up, feeling betrayed by my body. I have always gotten back on the horse, though, even though it might be a month or two later, knowing that I really DO want to lose this weight and don't really WANT to give up, but end up taking a sabbatical much more out of exasperation than just the fact that it's hard work.
I am D-O-N-E with excuses for not losing weight -- which is why I had the surgery in the first place. Ya don't let someone cut you open like that if you're not serious, ya know?! Well -- at least I don't! I hope I can hang in there with this pseudo-setback long enough to finally learn how my body reacts and what things mean and what to look for when certain things happen. Just trying to find a pattern SOMEwhere, you know?! Good grief.
Okay, shoulder back to the grindstone. I just got off the treadmill for 55 minutes, so I haven't given up by any means. I'll report back in a couple of weeks and let you all know what's happened!
Yeah, the scale is just noise. you can't have gained a pound of fat in a day. Moreover, you're talking about a 4lb change. That's under 2% of your body weight. Now, 4lbs of "true" fat loss or gain is a big deal, and can take weeks to achieve. But for a short term fluctuation it's nothing. That's the confounding problem with tracking trends.
Water, stress, food in gut, menstruation, it's all going to cause a lot of fluctuation. Heck, I look at a chart of my weight over the last couple of months, it looks like random noise. I think I may have lost a couple of pounds, since I've been trying too, but you can't really see a trend.
Okay guys -- ordered the Bodybugg this morning! I'm SO excited. The seller is in Los Angeles (45 minutes away) and is shipping it today, so I should get it tomorrow. I was going to get the GoWear Fit, but the BodyBugg actually ended up being cheaper (on eBay, including the 6-month online subscription -- $150 total). I hope this gives me an answer on my burn one way or the other. You just don't know!!
I had to make a decision between this and the endoscopy, though -- which was scheduled for October 30. I called and rescheduled it this morning. It was a tough choice, but as I thought about it, I don't really think the endoscopy is going to tell me what I really need to know. And what I really need to know right now is -- how many calories am I burning/day. An endoscopy's not going to answer that.
After already having tons of blood tests that tell me I'm okay, I don't think the endoscopy is going to tell me anything either -- I would spend $150 just for them to tell me, "You're fine." And at that point, the money's gone. Poof! And then I'd be right back where I am today -- still looking to spend ANOTHER $150 on a Bodybugg!
Honestly, I think I'm either undereating, or my metabolism is running cool. The endoscopy is only going to tell me that they don't "see" any problems. You can't "see" metabolism in someone's insides. So the burning question (no pun intended! ) can only be answered by a metabolism test or a calorie monitoring device.
I haven't canceled the endoscopy -- it's going to take 6 months to get back in -- but that's enough time for me to work the Bodybugg and use the included 6 month subscription. If I don't get anywhere with that, at least I can resell my Bodybugg on eBay (it's unbelievable to me what the demand is for them, even used!), and use the proceeds on the endoscopy, which is the same price.
Also, if the Bodybugg doesn't get me anywhere, then at least I have six months of data from the Bodybugg database to take back to a doctor. That narrows down that it's not anything I'm doing, but that something's blocking fat burning. Then at THAT point, I can do the endoscopy. I want to rule out everything that's within my own power first. Does that make sense??
i don't think you'll regret getting the BB, the GWF was SUCH a help for me. I was having trouble figuring out the right deficit using the formulas but the GWF was a godsend. Turns out my burn is really different during the week so i was eating almost at maintenance half the time and of course, getting discouraged by the scale doesn't help you stay away from junk food. Now you'll know exactly what you're doing wrong and what you're doing right.
It's Day 2 on the BodyBugg!!! I LOVE it!! I love seeing where I am several times a day! Ya know . . . I'm burning a whole lot more than I thought I was!
Yesterday I did 45 minutes of walking, burned 2400 calories in total, and ended up with a 700 calorie deficit (I didn't get the Bugg until yesterday afternoon, so didn't really start this full-force until today). Today I did more like 55 minutes and I'm at 2665. My target burn is 2750. I didn't make the target burn, but then again . . . my calories at this point (it's almost 8p) are at 1337. My target deficit is (according to the website) is 500, but at this point the deficit is at 1328.
Is that deficit too big? I'm not eating within "conservation mode" (I don't think I am anyway), but considering that my burn is so high, is a 1328 calorie deficit too much?
I love that I can only input my weight once a week in the system. In fact, it was like this morning I really had no desire to weigh, because of the BB software. I have something that's more accurate than the scale to tell me how I'm doing, so I suddenly felt like the scale wasn't my friend anymore! I put it away and don't plan to take it out until next Friday. THAT's a feat!
I love it already and am looking forward to seeing what happens. If someone can give me their input on my deficit, that'd be great.
Yeah, Saylee I thought about that too -- the BB says I burned 2978 calories yesterday -- but even with a margin of error of 10%, that's still 2700 calories, and the BB burn target is 2750. Amazing.
Yeah, Saylee I thought about that too -- the BB says I burned 2978 calories yesterday -- but even with a margin of error of 10%, that's still 2700 calories, and the BB burn target is 2750. Amazing.
Good luck with the body bugg!
But it kind of doesn't matter what it says, if your food isn't low enough to cause a deficit. It is different for everyone, and it is not math 3500 cal=1 lb loss, just not always true.
Quote:
It was extremely hard to keep track of everything this past week, but having worked so hard the last several weeks, even under all the stress of the weekend, I still made mental notes about how much I was eating, and never overate. By Monday morning 10/12, I weighed 239.1
Sheryl, Do you keep a record of your calories and macros? Weekends when I eat high carb I gain between 1 and 4 lbs in the 2 days, by Monday morning weigh in. Last week when I limited my carbs to 20 g/day Mon-Fri, all that gain was gone by Wed morning. The carbs cause soak up the water causing the water gain.
You could examine how your macros affect your scale gain.
You say
Quote:
It was extremely hard to keep track of everything this past week
So that is not 1 day you were estimating, it was a week. You could have gained a couple of pounds that week... Sorry everyone who is saying it is water weight... It could also be poor estimating.
When I guestimate, I can be 500 cal or more over what I see when I weigh the food.
Aren't you having trouble with eating ie pain? The endoscopy will tell you if you have scar tissue or problems with your stoma so I wouldn't completely rule it out. Concentrate on keeping your protein and calcium levels up because of the malabsorbing going on. I find when my protein levels are up where they need to be it is quite a good diuretic for me.
Also I think you have answered yourself about not losing weight-low Vitamin D and B's can prevent weight loss. Stress also plays a big factor. I use Natures Bounty Sublingual Liquid B Complex-one dropperful under the tongue a day. I have never had low B issues using this and you can get it at Walgreens for about 8 bucks. It is great for wls patients as it is a liquid and absorbed by the body very easily. With the D vitamins make sure you are getting a good D3. Did your doc mention a script for Vitamin D?
I seriously think I hit on something, but Etana to answer your question -- my calorie deficits have been anywhere from 950 to 1400 calories per day this past week since having the bodybugg. No matter where my calories were that particular day, I made sure my deficit has been in that range, as 2 pounds/week is my goal.
The 4 pound gain occurred immediately after the weekend. The following week was hard to keep track of, but the gain occurred after the weekend. Poor estimating? Possibly. But no way in the world was that 13,000 calories worth of underestimating, especially since I have a small "pouch" due to gastric bypass surgery. I couldn't have eaten that much in two days if you'd put a gun to my head. That would mean each of my three meals in two days would have to have been 2000 calories each! One week is one thing. A year and a half of this is quite another.
But in either case -- Lyrica you're right. I seriously hit on something today, and it was like "Eureka!" Okay walk with me here.
FACTOR #1
The one thing I've always been low on is Vitamin D since surgery. Now, it's possible I could have been low before now, because I have all the risk factors for it. I have a family history of diabetes, I'm African-American, overweight, and it's well known that African Americans tend to be low in Vit D (we don't need the tan ), which is probably why it's a huge epidemic in the African-American and many darker-skinned races.
FACTOR #2
ANYWAY, I've been reading voraciously the last two weeks and the thing I've continued to come back to in the last year has been insulin resistance. Just over and over. My insulin tested once, and FASTING -- it was 10. Now, my lab tends to have a wider range (3-11 considered normal), but many labs consider anything over 9 to be an indication of IR -- and that's fasting, mind you. At the very least, that's an indication of having a poor level.
Today on a whim I decided to cross reference the two factors, something I've never done before. I know I have a Vitamin D deficiency -- so I cross referenced that with IR and LR. The search results were nearly astounding. There is compounded evidence that a low Vitamin D level causes symptoms of IR and LR! Let's examine some of the symptoms . . .
"When insulin is circulating in the blood stream, the body will not release significant fat stores, even when a person exercises and restricts their food intake. Such circumstances would only result in the loss of lean body mass and fluid"
This is what I've been saying for months, but couldn't find anything to describe what I was going through! I only lose water when I reduce calories -- never fat. I was so thrilled to see this in writing I didn't know what to do with myself.
As I read on about IR, I also came upon info about Leptin Resistance. The two go hand in hand many times, and Leptin is a powerful hormone linked to obesity. I came upon a PDF file today of the Rosedale Diet where they give you a quiz for LR. Check this out: (http://webcontent.harpercollins.com/...0060782293.pdf)
1. When you go on a weight loss diet, do you have trouble losing fat?
2. Do you have trouble keeping weight off after dieting?
3. Are you constantly hungry?
4. Do you crave sweets?
5. Do you wake up hungry at night (I mentioned this earlier in this thread; someone thought it might be that I might not be eating enough)
6. Do you have a spare tire or apple shape?
7. Are you losing muscle mass despite the fact that you are exercising?
8. Do you feel stressed out?
9. Have you been diagnosed with high triglyceride levels?
10. Do you have high blood pressure?
In the book, each of these questions is answered as to a reason why this is happening. I loved #5, because except when I was pregnant and my metabolism was through the roof, I have NEVER found myself hungry in the middle of the night before.
I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night positively starving, having to get up to eat just so I could go back to sleep! Not a normal MO. This morning I woke up so hungry several minutes before it was time to get up. I only got up because I was SO hungry, but wanted to sleep! The explanation? Read on.
"Nights are for sleeping, not for eating. Sleep is a time when your body is supposed to take a break from the stress of digestion so it can wind down and concentrate on (1) maintenance and repair of your cells to keep you in peak condition and, in the process (2) burn up fat stores as fuel to do this repair work. If you’re hungry at night, it is usually because you have run out of sugar to burn and your body has “forgotten” how to burn fat. The fact is, you should be able to get adequate nourishment during the day and burn fat stores at night so that you don’t feel hungry at night. If your leptin signaling is off, however, you will feel hungry when you shouldn’t, even when you should be sleeping.
In other words, what happens is that at the point my body runs out of sugar to burn -- which it would do quite easily because I'm keeping my carbs fairly low -- it doesn't switch over to burning fat. I just get ravenously hungry instead, when I really shouldn't be!
"If you answered “yes” to any of these questions, you are likely to be suffering the symptoms of leptin resistance, and the devastating effects of being a sugar burner as opposed to being a fat burner." Numbers 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 9, and 10 describe me. At this site -- http://www.buzzle.com/articles/metab...-syndrome.html -- I found the following: "Many a times, this syndrome [metabolic syndrome] can manifest due to lack of vitamin D. Hence, reports have claimed the relation of vitamin D deficiency and insulin resistance syndrome."
So as I have many times suspected, I'm experiencing insulin resistance -- but what I DIDN'T know is that it's caused by my lack of Vitamin D! Now mind you -- I flat out asked my surgeon a year ago if I was having a hard time losing because of Vitamin D. He told me no. Other doctors have told me that Vitamin D is only involved with the transport of calcuim to the bones (or something like that), but NEVER mentioned its link to IR or LR. And none of the five doctors I've seen in the last year ever recognized the symptoms I've been describing to them as symptoms of IR or LR.
Is this unreal or what? I also read that Vitamin D tends to be a lot more effective in treating IR/LR than even Metformin, which I have a Rx for (due to PCOS) -- but that it could take several months to get my levels back up to where they need to be. After all this time I'm just a wee bit impatient about wanting to see results, but if this is the answer I've needed all along, I guess I have no choice but to wait it out.
I know this thread is so long, but I fear someone else somewhere some time will need to read this when they're just about to give up, like I have wanted to so many times. I'll keep you guys updated, if for no other reason than to keep this thread flowing so that someone can read the journey and the final destination.
Just wish I could get doctor's pay for doing the doctor's work.
Just wish I could get doctor's pay for doing the doctor's work.
Why? Just get a crapload of sunshine while walking, suppliment with D3, and see what happens. If it is a vitamin D deficiency causing problems it won't take very long to find out.
Why? Just get a crapload of sunshine while walking, suppliment with D3, and see what happens. If it is a vitamin D deficiency causing problems it won't take very long to find out.
Meaning this is something that should have occurred to at least ONE of five doctors that I have been paying to see about this -- when I'm the one who had to do all the research and haven't been paid a dime. Being facetious of course, but that's what I meant . . .
I forgot to answer Lyrica's question about the supplementation. One of my endos has always prescribed 50,000 IUs of Vit D (3x since surgery) for 10 days whenever I have it tested, and then that's it. I think that's why it's always remained low -- I need it every day, not just mega-doses for 10-day stretches.
FWIW, even in summer I'm taking 2500iu D3 a day & I'm a fair-skinned girl.
You'd *think* doctors would/should know, but they don't know all that much about supplements, since those are not medicine. D3 is rather special as it's so hormone-like & interest as well as research on it is increasing.
Low D3 as possible cause for no fat loss; Insulin & Leptin Resistance
SUMMARY/POSSIBLE FINDING: Low D3 as possible cause for no fat loss; Insulin & Leptin Resistance
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherylWilliams
The 4 pound gain occurred immediately after the weekend. The following week was hard to keep track of, but the gain occurred after the weekend. Poor estimating? Possibly. But no way in the world was that 13,000 calories worth of underestimating
This post is remarkable.
Yes, I too "gained 5 lbs" last week from Sat to Mon. And on a weekly deficit total, I only recovered 4.2 lbs of that during this week, showing a .8 lb gain. This was I think due to eating fat and carbs together on my high carb Sat and Sun, instead of carbs and low fat. I think when I eat high carbs and low fat, I don't show a high water gain. My biggest weekly loss (-2 lbs) was when I ate high carb/low fat on weekend followed by high protein, high fat, carb under 20g Mon-Fri.
Quote:
(http://webcontent.harpercollin s.com/...0060782293.pdf) "If you answered “yes” to any of these questions, you are likely to be suffering the symptoms of leptin resistance, and the devastating effects of being a sugar burner as opposed to being a fat burner."
I have been reading Rob Faigin's Natural Hormonal Enhancement (suggested by Jane), and he too talks about being "sugar-burners" vs "fat-burners," and I keyed into that as significant also!!!
- I too am low in D3 and high in Cholesterol and LDL.
- I too had a horrible time not losing fat on low cal and high exercise.
- I too had a high deficit.
- I too for years have thought insulin was an issue, but never quite can understand how it plays in, and even more, what to do about my insulin levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherylWilliams
I seriously think I hit on something, but Etana to answer your question -- my caloriedeficits have been anywhere from 950 to 1400 calories per day this past week since having the bodybugg. No matter where my calories were that particular day, I made sure my deficit has been in that range, as 2 pounds/week is my goal.
This post is remarkable.
Sheryl, Do you mind if I post your message on Leigh's new forum and see what she has to say about it? (too bad she's not here anymore)...
Now I am losing fat, but on relatively the same average calories per week, and about the same deficit per week as when I was not losing!!!
What did I change?
a. I increased my D3 capsules from 1000mg to 5000mg!
b. I began carb cycling.
c. I began phentermine. (but my GWF isn't registering a higher burn)
This post is remarkable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherylWilliams
FACTOR #1 always been low on is Vitamin D since surgery.
FACTOR #2 insulin resistance. FASTING, it was 10. At the very least, that's an indication of having a poor level.
Vitamin D deficiency cross referenced with IR and LR. The search results were nearly astounding. There is compounded evidence that a low Vitamin D level causes symptoms of IR and LR! Let's examine some of the symptoms . . .
"When insulin is circulating in the blood stream, the body will not release significant fat stores, even when a person exercises and restricts their food intake. Such circumstances would only result in the loss of lean body mass and fluid"
This is what I've been saying for months, but couldn't find anything to describe what I was going through! I only lose water when I reduce calories -- never fat. I was so thrilled to see this in writing I didn't know what to do with myself.
As I read on about IR, I also came upon info about Leptin Resistance. The two go hand in hand many times, and Leptin is a powerful hormone linked to obesity. I came upon a PDF file today of the Rosedale Diet where they give you a quiz for LR. Check this out: (http://webcontent.harpercollins.com/...0060782293.pdf)
1. When you go on a weight loss diet, do you have trouble losing fat?
2. Do you have trouble keeping weight off after dieting?
3. Are you constantly hungry?
4. Do you crave sweets?
5. Do you wake up hungry at night (I mentioned this earlier in this thread; someone thought it might be that I might not be eating enough)
6. Do you have a spare tire or apple shape?
7. Are you losing muscle mass despite the fact that you are exercising?
8. Do you feel stressed out?
9. Have you been diagnosed with high triglyceride levels?
10. Do you have high blood pressure? "If you answered “yes” to any of these questions, you are likely to be suffering the symptoms of leptin resistance, and the devastating effects of being a sugar burner as opposed to being a fat burner." Numbers 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 9, and 10 describe me. At this site -- http://www.buzzle.com/articles/metab...-syndrome.html -- I found the following: "Many a times, this syndrome [metabolic syndrome] can manifest due to lack of vitamin D. Hence, reports have claimed the relation of vitamin D deficiency and insulin resistance syndrome."
So as I have many times suspected, I'm experiencing insulin resistance -- but what I DIDN'T know is that it's caused by my lack of Vitamin D!
I also read that Vitamin D tends to be a lot more effective in treating IR/LR than even Metformin
Quote:
When insulin is circulating in the blood stream, the body will not release significant fat stores
So how do we regulate our insulin so it will circulate less in the blood stream??? Will simply a high enough daily dose of Vitamin D3 solve this problem???
I am so excited by this research you did. I will read the links today. I said yes only on 1, 2, 4, 9. But I thought you might be interested to hear, and your post here is what made me even think about it; that soon after I began taking 5000 mg of Vit D3 instead of the 1000mg, I began to lose weight.. Is that possible?????? I wish I had a note of what day I began the 5000mg D3, but I have the bottle... I just counted how many D3 pills are left = 60 in a 120softgel bottle. So that's 8 weeks. I started losing 1.5 lbs per week (my exact caloric deficit per GoWearFit) about 8 weeks ago. !!!!!!!!!!!!!
This week I plan to have a lab test for my D3 and Cortisol. I think I will email my Endocrinologist with some of this info and your links, and see if he wants me to have any other tests.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherylWilliams
Just wish I could get doctor's pay for doing the doctor's work.
It TOTALLY makes sense to me, Etana! And I'm so glad you had results shortly after increasing your intake; hopefully I will too! And please do forward the information -- it's not like it's mine; it's out on the internet & I just happened to put two and two together!
As far as your question about getting our insulin lower, I think trying to treat the IR and LR independently is in effect treating the symptom rather than the cause. I think it all goes back to Vitamin D. Hopefully -- from what I read -- if we can treat the Vitamin D deficiency successfully we can clear up most of the issues.
Now that said, I DID do a little reading on people who are doing both -- taking Metformin AND Vitamin D together. I haven't read a whole lot into that yet, but if you decide to do that, let me know! Metformin (Glucophage) is a medication prescribed for diabetics and for PCOS patients. It's supposed to somewhat treat insulin resistance -- but it would stand to reason that if you're only treating the symptom and the root cause is a Vitamin D deficiency, that you're only going to get limited efficacy. But I would be very interested in seeing information on treating both the cause and the symptoms at the same time, myself!
There seems to be some controversy over which form of VitD is most efficacious -- D2 or D3. I just checked with my pharmacy, because the Rx I have for Vitamin D doesn't say which form it is. The pharmacist said it's 50,000iU of D2.
"I treat vitamin D deficiency with 50,000 IU of vitamin D2 once a week for eight weeks. To prevent vitamin D deficiency from recurring, I then put the patient on 50,000 IU of vitamin D2 every two weeks forever. From my experience of over 100 patients on this regime for up to six years, their blood levels are sustained above 30 ng/ml which is considered to be the vitamin D sufficient range. On average, the blood level was between 40-50 ng/ml. Furthermore, an evaluation of their blood calcium, a measure of whether ingesting vitamin D2 at these levels, had caused any toxicity did not change. Therefore, this regime was effective in maintaining my patients’ vitamin D status without causing any untoward toxicity."
"This study confirms these observations and adds to the body of scientific literature demonstrating that at least when healthy adults take 1,000 IU of vitamin D2, they can be assured that it is as effective as taking 1,000 IU of vitamin D3."
"D2 or ergocalciferol is often included in the blood measures of vitamin D along with vitamin D3. The only reason it's checked with blood work is to ensure "compliance,", i.e., see whether or not you're taking a prescribed ergocalciferol. Beyond this, it has no usefulness." Yikes.
"25-OH-vitamin D3 , or cholecalciferol , is both the blood measure and the supplement you need. This is the one that packs all the punch. Keep in mind also that it is the oil-based gelcap you want, with more consistent and efficient absorption. Tablets usually barely work at all, even if it contains cholecalciferol. Most people who take calcium tablets with D, or multivitamin with D, not only are getting a powdered form of D, but also in trivial doses. It's the pure vitamin D3, cholecalciferol, in gelcap form you want if you desire all the spectacular benefits of vitamin D."
Hmmm. But then . . .
"The newest study addressing this question, challenges the long held belief that vitamin D2 is less potent or less effective than vitamin D3 in raising and maintaining blood levels. This was a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blinded study of healthy individuals ages 18-84 years who received either placebo, 1,000 IU of vitamin D3, 1,000 IU of vitamin D2, or 500 IU of vitamin D2 plus 500 IU of vitamin D3 daily for 11 weeks at the end of the winter. Sixty percent of the study subjects were vitamin D deficient at the start of the study (< 20 ng/ml). This three month study of 68 individuals found that supplementation with both forms produced similar results. Neither 1,000 IU of vitamin D2 or vitamin D3 raised 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels in vitamin D deficient subjects to a level above 30 ng/ml. The authors concluded that vitamin D2 is equally as effective as vitamin D3 in maintaining 25-hydroxyvitamin D status." (http://drtorihudson.com/general/nutr...han-the-other/)
I suppose the best thing to do is be safe and use the D3 if possible -- just to be sure -- although they may actually both have similar results.
The invention is directed to a dietary supplement which contains mannoheptulose. Mannoheptulose occurs naturally in avocado fruit. The dietary supplement and its method of use can lower serum insulin levels and lower a subject's weight
... and gasped. I liked avocado but rarely ate it because "it is 2 WeightWatcher points for a small slice = too fattening for the calories I have in a day"
But, the past months I have been eating avocado at least 4 days a week because I am increasing my healthy fats.
Quote:
As little as one microunit of insulin in serum will prevent the breakdown of stored fat. Even starvation does not bring insulin levels to normal in obese subjects.
This explains why, when I did Brad Pilon's EatStopEat (ESE) for 12 weeks last year, twice a week (fasting from 9pm Sun to 9pmMon, and then 9pm Thu to 9pm Friday, I still lost no weight for the week.
It is incredible how researching a document, you really need to interpret the meaning in what you are reading. You found some info in this article, I keyed on other information, and the pharmaceuticals will key in on other info. They will make a drug to buy, instead of just letting us eat more avocado and increase our Vit D3... So your personal experiences got you A & B from the articles and then my own personal history got me C & D. It's so interesting how reading the original source documents add to knew conclusions and possible new findings!! This is thrilling!!!
Great job researching, Sheryl!!!!
Quote:
As people age, sensitivity of cells to insulin generally decreases due to sedentary lifestyles, poor diet, and the natural aging process. The pancreatic response to this is often hyper-secretion of insulin. Therefore, it is difficult for people to lose a significant amount of body fat as long as they suffer from insulin overload. A noticeable effect of excess serum insulin is constant hunger.
summary:
1. I'm aging, sedentary, poor dietary history = insulin resistance
2. I fasted ESE, insulin never dropped to 0
3. I increased D3 = began losing fat
4. I increased avocado = began losing fat
So I tried to find the people who filed the patent, to ask if they had created a supplement of mannoheptulose / avocado ... couldn't find email or phone #, but will probably write to them.
Chapnick, David Linda G. I., 9282 Broad Street,. Boca Raton, FL 33434, US ...... (71) LG Life Sciences Ltd., LG Twin Tower, East Tower, 20, ...
p.s. I am taking D3. I think Leigh or Espi wrote something about why D3, not D2
Quote:
"As little as one microunit of insulin in serum will prevent the breakdown of stored fat. Even starvation does not bring insulin levels to normal in obese subjects."
Seriously -- I read that somewhere too! My mouth dropped open when I read it, and was like "NO WONDER!" I can't remember where I read it, but I'm sure it's somewhere in my 50,000 browser bookmarks.
I would have included it in my post too but it would have turned into a book. It should have occurred to a doctor that if my FASTING insulin level was at 10, that there's no way I could be burning fat! I'd really hate to know what my postprandial insulin level is, if it's 10 fasting . . .
Doctors are seriously failing in striking the balance between listening to what patients are saying and a patient's blood tests. Doctors sometimes are giving blood tests 99% of their attention, and a patient about 1% of their attention -- as was my case. Mine have looked at my blood tests and totally written me off with a, "You're fine," when I KNOW I'm not, as evidenced by the fact I can't burn fat, but only lose/gain water.
There really needs to be a 50/50 give, here. If I'm giving you symptoms and I have a borderline blood tests, I think that should be plenty of reason to consider that my test results -- while on the VERY high side of normal -- may still be telling you something! They tend to take blood tests as the gospel truth and nearly disregard patient symptoms! And I almost suspect that some health care plans intentionally widen their reference ranges so that you fall within "their" range of normal so that they don't have to treat you.
Another thing I didn't mention either -- my blood pressure and bad cholesterol (LDL) have been going up, despite a calorie deficit and exercise. About six weeks ago my BP was at 102. When I went to urgent care for a different issue this last week, it was 139. But that may be caused by the pain I was in, even though it wasn't what I would consider severe . . .
My good cholesterol (HDL) was low about a year ago, but that's been going up because I've been eating more nuts. It's still on the lower side of normal, though. You and me BOTH Etana, are thrilled at this information. I just can't wait to see what it eventually does for me. For now I'm going to stay on my Metformin and on the Vitamin D. I'm back to 238.2 for the last three days from being up near 241 a week or so ago.
THANK YOU for validating what I've been saying with your own struggles. We've saved the world today.
Don't absolutely count on Vitamin D to cure your IR and weight problems-you have PCOS. That right there causes IR (leading to high cholesterol in some) in many women & weight loss problems. PCOS is notoriously hard to deal with in these areas. You have multiple hormonal problems going on and you need to find a competent endo to help you.
After all this time I'm just a wee bit impatient about wanting to see results, but if this is the answer I've needed all along, I guess I have no choice but to wait it out.
not bring insulin levels to normal in obese subjects.
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