The Fat Loss TroubleshootThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. This section is led by Leigh Peele, author of "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot," the ultimate fat loss manual. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
I know and longingly read about wooshes, manipulated by sodium and water, etc. I've got Leigh's books so I have the 'water manual', btw.
This is kind of a general question.... if one has been in a not-fully-REPAIRed state for several years, never really fixing all the undereating crap, could the cloaking still be there and have been there all along?
I guess I'm asking if I can induce/push/expect a woosh even after all this time if I clean myself up.
I have moderate retention symptoms - sock lines, etc, but NOT severe like I've heard others describe.
Thanks, everyone.
__________________ "My yoga class had me trembling and sweating and I feel MUCH better." - Fang
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tenacious Training and Tweaking (the A lotta Alitteration thread)
You could have been holding onto a few lbs of water if you just plain retain water. I retain water (sock lines, etc.) all the time. The thing is that if I fix it, it's just scale weight that can come back after too many pickles or salty snacks.
Other than the sock lines and the scale, there's actual fat loss from that whoosh.
When people talk about the whoosh during fat loss, it's just a symptom of a cyclical weight loss phenomenon during fat loss -- you're losing fat, but water is "filling the space" of the lost fat until the whoosh. That's not being held for three years.
Not to say that you can't fix an underlying issue that's encouraging water retention, of course.
I didn't lose any weight for about 3 weeks and then dropped 2.5lbs in a week. (I only weigh once a week, so I don't know if that was paced or came off in a day or two)
Is that the kind of woosh you are talking about? Or do you mean something more dramatic, like 5+ pounds?
Have you lost any weight during that time frame? Right now I am averaging 3/4 pound loss a week and that seems like such a trivial amount to me . . . it's almost embarrassing
__________________
***********************
If you weren't born drop dead gorgeous, be thankful for the opportunity to develop character first.
Losing 100lbs, there's so much extra space for water to fill, I think my whole lymphatic drainage system is flat out overwhelmed and nothing is moving out.
I mean, I can drop 6lbs of water in a workout but it comes right back within hours.
Sock lines? My legs are a good 1/4" smaller all around the area where I always wear my socks, and it's a very abrupt transition at that. I can move the fluid by hand with some massage work but it always re-settles.
The worst part is my stomach and back though. Got the batwings when I happen to be especially sloppy-wet, and the stomach disappears when I'm laying on my back but flows to the front when I stand or lean forward.
So, yeah, I know how you're feeling, but I have no answers. No amount of water manipulation, carb depleting, etc. has had any affect for me.. at least nothing that lasted more than a few days.
Until I started thyroid meds a couple weeks ago, my weight would swing 10-15lbs every few days, which was annoying. Now that I'm somewhat medicated that fluctuation has tamed quite a bit, but it settled at the high end of the swing range - D'OH!
I found this poem I wrote and sent to Leigh almost a year ago.. and am still pretty much in the same spot, just a bit leaner, a little heavier and a little more waterlogged. It's called "Waterlogged Who" - was having a little fun with it, spoofing on Dr Seuss.
Waterlogged Who
going about as he may
trying to shed some excess fluid
for weigh-in day.
No more green eggs
and sodium-laced ham.
No more who-hash
and no more who-spam.
No more roast beast
to no avail, no luck.
Going out of his mind
crying "WHAT THE WHO-F@*K!?!?!"
He cuts the salt,
increases his potassium
I don't know what else
rhymes with potassium
He sweats his ass off
at the Who-gym
All the other Who-gym rats
make fun of him
"Shut UP!"
He lets out a roar
"Just don't slip in the puddle
I left on the floor!"
He hops off the treadmill
bounds towards the scale
You should have seen his face
It turned quite pale.
Then like a small child
he spat and he pouted
"GAWDAMMITWHATTHEHELL?!?!"
he shouted.
For the last three days
I've lived on lousy cheap whey
I've sweated like a pig
two times a day
It's too much effort cheating the scale
come weigh-in day.
"I miss my green eggs
and sodium laced ham.
I want that who-hash
you can keep the spam
Bring my roast beast
and a big salt shaker
some cookies too
compliment the baker.
"I'm tired of this crap
and running out of rhymes
soon it will be
weigh-in time.
__________________
Mike Pipes
Massive fat loss survivor and aspiring trainer in training
I found this poem I wrote and sent to Leigh almost a year ago..
Thanks, Mike - and congrats on your huge losses!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlankIt
what is the longest break from dieting & training that you've taken during this period?
Heh, good question. It was my 8 weeks of REPAIR about 15 months ago, which I followed up with my status quo, unfortunately....
My running is getting better, though.
Oh, and Lost Dog, thanks for the general thoughts. I really didn't think that if I got all of my electrolytes manipulated I'd just drop 5lbs like that... but you never know.
That being said, I used to be one of those people who was heavier than I appeared - more muscle mass. Now, I think that I appear "correctly" or maybe even the other way - I'm lighter than I look. Hmph.
__________________ "My yoga class had me trembling and sweating and I feel MUCH better." - Fang
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tenacious Training and Tweaking (the A lotta Alitteration thread)
8 weeks after how much time spent overtraining/dieting? Doesn't Leigh sometimes recommend going through it twice?
I never actually did her program, but I remember it taking a VERY long time for my body to recover from all the damage I had done to it during college..... somewhere around 5-6 months. Then again I was stupid and refused to stop exercising for very long
8 weeks after how much time spent overtraining/dieting? Doesn't Leigh sometimes recommend going through it twice?
Yes, Leigh recommends the more severe cases go through it twice. It seems those would be the level 1's on her quiz...
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They call me Amanda, that being my real name, and "They" being people who know me in person as I don't go around introducing myself in real life as "scribess." 'Cause that would just be strange.
8 weeks after how much time spent overtraining/dieting? Doesn't Leigh sometimes recommend going through it twice?
Yep, and at the time I thought, "8 weeks times TWO??? I don't have time for that!". And here I am about 70 weeks later.... sheesh.
The overtraining/dieting phase was (and is) about 4-6 years, depending on how strictly you want to define it. Just hit 5 years of amenorrhea, FTW.
(sorry, I've been hooked on 'FTW' lately and use it on everything like a spice mix made of crack)
__________________ "My yoga class had me trembling and sweating and I feel MUCH better." - Fang
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tenacious Training and Tweaking (the A lotta Alitteration thread)
You've had amenorrhea for 5 years and you continue to diet and seem more concerned about a whoosh than the amenorrhea.
Why?
Not only this but sweetie, you are really, really thin and look really thin. Exactly WHAT (pray tell) are you wanting to woosh? Why are you seeking to lose scale weight?
Is it some belly fat that you want to drop or something?
__________________
The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
What is the Woosh mean?
Woosh means great value landline and high-speed broadband.
It allows you to work where you like, play where you want and experience the very best of the Internet as well as calling rates.
Yep, and at the time I thought, "8 weeks times TWO??? I don't have time for that!". And here I am about 70 weeks later.... sheesh.
The overtraining/dieting phase was (and is) about 4-6 years, depending on how strictly you want to define it. Just hit 5 years of amenorrhea, FTW.
(sorry, I've been hooked on 'FTW' lately and use it on everything like a spice mix made of crack)
I can definitely empathize with what you are going through.
So I take it you never took the maintenance break pre- UD2.0 that you are supposed to take? If you were to retake the MRM test again, what would you score?
It sounds like you need to consider whether what you are doing is getting you the results you want. Judging by this thread, I assume it isn't. So, the next thing to consider is what is the worst possible outcome of you backing off on training/dieting? Is it likely (judging by how your body handled metarepair)?
As I recall (it has been a long time) it took a month and a half of less intense/long workouts and a ton of carbs & fats before I got my period back. I DID put on weight, but I also didn't follow a smart program.... and it DID come off.
p.s. I think ftw-fever is going around as it now seems to follow every sarcastic statement I make
sock lines are a symptom of water? I didn't know that. I sock line like a maniac. I just though my socks were too tight. I drink water like a maniac too.
I can definitely empathize with what you are going through.
So I take it you never took the maintenance break pre- UD2.0 that you are supposed to take? If you were to retake the MRM test again, what would you score?
I would score slightly better than I did the last time - I am incrementally better in my eating and sleeping, but obviously not recovered.
Of course I didn't do the maintenance break, silly.... that's what logical people do.
Thank you for your comments - those who have read me on here for a bit are probably nodding their heads and saying, 'girl, you know what to do! do it!!! sheesh!!' and trust me I *understand*. Its the follow through that needs work.
__________________ "My yoga class had me trembling and sweating and I feel MUCH better." - Fang
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tenacious Training and Tweaking (the A lotta Alitteration thread)
That is what I was thinking. You probably should be more concerned about your overall health at this moment.
See below, and thank you for your concern. I do appreciate it, and do not post questions on here to fish for moral support but sometimes that tends to happen when ya'll know a person's posting history, or I blurt out stuff about my hormones that may or may not be appropriate to the topic at hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfisherx
Not only this but sweetie, you are really, really thin and look really thin. Exactly WHAT (pray tell) are you wanting to woosh? Why are you seeking to lose scale weight?
Is it some belly fat that you want to drop or something?
Karla, something like that, its kind of mental and has to do with choosing to be a competitive runner with a body-image problem, but keep reading....
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshinekisses
Are you the same misstenacity that is over on Lyle McDonald's support forum?
Indeed. I didn't get all creative and use different handles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanceDiva
You've had amenorrhea for 5 years and you continue to diet and seem more concerned about a whoosh than the amenorrhea.
Why?
Short answer that will piss everyone off - I still think I can fix it gradually, or AFTER I achieve some other athletic goals, because I'm not convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm doing permanent damage. There, I said it.
Whatever extra comments you want to throw in, I welcome the discussion but first, do know that I know the potential damage, I know how to fix it, and I am choosing not to fully jump into recovery, yet.
So I'm happy to let this thread die for now and re-read MRM, if you'll forgive me.
__________________ "My yoga class had me trembling and sweating and I feel MUCH better." - Fang
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tenacious Training and Tweaking (the A lotta Alitteration thread)
Whatever extra comments you want to throw in, I welcome the discussion but first, do know that I know the potential damage, I know how to fix it, and I am choosing not to fully jump into recovery, yet.
Perhaps if you let your body rest and heal you could actually reach your goals.
Perhaps if you let your body rest and heal you could actually reach your goals.
Amen to that.
I also suggest professional counseling. Unless you are a pro athelte who's livelihood depends on atheletic performance you really should put your health first. I know you *know* this but since you are not following through and doing what is best for your body this just shows that you are not being sane and rational about this situation and in denial. Don't mean to sound rude but have been there and when you are "in it" you really can't "see it".
Thank you for your comments - those who have read me on here for a bit are probably nodding their heads and saying, 'girl, you know what to do! do it!!! sheesh!!' and trust me I *understand*. Its the follow through that needs work.
I've followed for a while (look how long I've been a member). I just also 'get it'.
Knowing something from a logic/rational standpoint doesn't necessarily convert to logic based action. Fear & anxiety (and whatever else you want to throw in) are very powerful obstacles.
I've followed for a while (look how long I've been a member). I just also 'get it'.
Knowing something from a logic/rational standpoint doesn't necessarily convert to logic based action. Fear & anxiety (and whatever else you want to throw in) are very powerful obstacles.
x2... I have been wanting to jump in her and give ya my lectures but I think you know. You just hafta traslate that somehow into do. I remember how scary it all was for me during my first bulk too.
Many congrats Andrea on qualifying for the Boston. Your hard work and dedication to a goal is certainly never an issue.
Watching and worried for ya in Oregon...
__________________
The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
I've followed for a while (look how long I've been a member). I just also 'get it'.
Knowing something from a logic/rational standpoint doesn't necessarily convert to logic based action. Fear & anxiety (and whatever else you want to throw in) are very powerful obstacles.
yup, and why when you are that deep in it most often professional help is key.
The pain of change is often perceived to be worse than the pain of the status quo.
Sometimes, it's a matter of just doing it, trusting in that you'll be glad that you did and that it won't really have been as hard and painful as you are subconsciously making it out to be.
In the same way that noone in their right mind just tries to run a marathon the first time they put on a pair of sneaks, so maybe do you have to plot out a plan of babysteps to get you closer to the goal without each individual bit seeming like some scary mountain.
Your rationalizations are just that… rationalizations. They're nice and comfy and don't require you to change because surely what you're subjecting yourself to just isn't that bad. You certainly could be doing far worse things to your body.
Sheah… and I'm ok because even though I'm fat I'm not as fat as some other chick, right?
Regardless, it does require you to bite the bullet and at least take the first step. Maybe then the second step is less painful, and the third step even less of an issue. But even if you never go farther than that first step, or even if that second step takes another 3 years, you'll at least be in a slightly better place than today… right?
Are you the "can but won't" or the "can and will" person? Because you're not the "can't."
Holding on to a potential WOOSH for 3 years??
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