The Fat Loss TroubleshootThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. This section is led by Leigh Peele, author of "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot," the ultimate fat loss manual. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
I'm just wondering how lean someone who's hypothyroid can expect to get? In all the research I've looked at people lose really slowly whether medicated or not and the leaner they get the worse it is.
Is it even reasonable to have a 20% bodyfat goal as a female? Is it reasonable to expect to be able to maintain that?
A google search for "hypothyroid personal trainer" turned up none on the first 5 pages; just hypothyroid patients who hired personal trainers.
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Originally Posted by Lost Dog
Plus, my desire to remain stunningly attractive outweighs the call of the cheesecake. mostly...
I'm just wondering how lean someone who's hypothyroid can expect to get? In all the research I've looked at people lose really slowly whether medicated or not and the leaner they get the worse it is.
Is it even reasonable to have a 20% bodyfat goal as a female? Is it reasonable to expect to be able to maintain that?
A google search for "hypothyroid personal trainer" turned up none on the first 5 pages; just hypothyroid patients who hired personal trainers.
well I have been hypT since age 16 and in my early 20's was anorexic and down to 87 lbs at one point (at 5'2) and then maintained a low (but not unehalthy) and lean weight for many years so I really don't think someone who has hypoT well controlled would have any issue getting as lean as anyone else ya know? Might take longer, I have always had slower weight loss than the norm even when I was starving myself!
Right. That is what makes sense. It's difficult because I've just been reading all these forums and all this stuff everywhere that makes it seem as if it's practically impossible, even on the right meds. Thyroid stuff is just such a minefield with so much contention. I really have to try to remember not to feel defeated from the very beginning.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Dog
Plus, my desire to remain stunningly attractive outweighs the call of the cheesecake. mostly...
Right. That is what makes sense. It's difficult because I've just been reading all these forums and all this stuff everywhere that makes it seem as if it's practically impossible, even on the right meds. Thyroid stuff is just such a minefield with so much contention. I really have to try to remember not to feel defeated from the very beginning.
don't feel defeated. So much of the stuff you read online about thyroid is total BS. There is a particular site, Stop the Thyroid Madness that is particularly bad and full of very incorrect medical information. Remember to view everything online with a very critical eye!
It is true that many people are not medicated properly. Doctors will often just test the TSH but not look at the actual T4/T3 levels. Some doctors don't even seem to know that the a few yrs ago the "normal" levels were revised downward so it is important to get copies of your lab work and make sure all the right tests are done. good luck.
I post on two different thyroid forums and the Stop The Thyroid Madness site is not that bad-there is also a book by the same name. A good book that really goes in depth and is easy to understand is "The Thyroid Solution" by Dr. Ridha Arem-I have loaned this out 3 times so far and it is really a great book. Mary Shoman also has published books and runs the thyroid forum on about.com. Hang in there and learn all you can.
A good book that really goes in depth and is easy to understand is "The Thyroid Solution" by Dr. Ridha Arem-I have loaned this out 3 times so far and it is really a great book. .
You do realize that written in that book is the following statements.
"Fat gets easily absorbed in the intestine and much goes straight to fat storage. If you reduce the fat in your diet you will lose weight even if you continue to eat the same amount of calories."
"Increase the frequency of your meals, this has been adopted by france."
"Milk is rich in hormones and promotes weight gain"
"You should follow a low-glycemic, low fat diet."
It also preys and feeds on common anxiety and depression issues, particularly of women.
The problem is even if this doc seems to understand some of the processes and comes in and makes a good reference, he has no idea how to back that with nutritional aid or understand the possible faults of weight loss in general especially in regards to research studies.
Also the Stop the Thyriod Madness site is bad and full of finger pointing and scare tactics. No it isn't easy to work with thyroid issues and they are real but they are not as aggressive or common as people are making them out to be. If people want to keep believing that you can't see dysfunction in a blood test then why even bother getting the test, just walk in, say your cold, and get your meds.
I have never heard of anyone walk in a docs office and say they are cold and get meds-most often the case is getting the proper diagnosis and treatment. Not everyone has this symptom-it's different for everyone. The book is a good one on explaining the current diagnosing trends for thyroid disease and other problem areas in the body that the thyroid affects-I never said to use it as a nutrition manual for thyroid disease just as a good starter for learning more about the thyroid.
So much of the stuff you read online about thyroid is total BS. There is a particular site, Stop the Thyroid Madness that is particularly bad and full of very incorrect medical information. Remember to view everything online with a very critical eye!
This is what I keep trying to remind myself. A year ago when I had my thyroid out I found the forums with people who say that their levels are "fine" according to their docs but they don't feel right and no one will help. I decided then to forget it and not worry until/unless it happened to me.
Fast forward to now, on a clear deficit for 10 weeks with four pounds of water weight lost and that's it. Now I have to start thinking that maybe I'm not medicated enough, which is very possible, but there are lots of people who say they can't lose weight or its very slow even fully medicated, unless they're on T3 but most people have a hard time convincing their Dr to prescribe it.
I worry its going to take a year to lose 20 lbs; once its off I can gain again in an instant for no reason other than because my hormones go funky; I won't be able to work out hard (because as Leigh says it messes with adrenal/cortisol issues - which is another area I can't find any info on).
Basically I wonder if not having a thyroid and becoming a personal trainer just doesn't mix.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Dog
Plus, my desire to remain stunningly attractive outweighs the call of the cheesecake. mostly...
This is what I keep trying to remind myself. A year ago when I had my thyroid out I found the forums with people who say that their levels are "fine" according to their docs but they don't feel right and no one will help. I decided then to forget it and not worry until/unless it happened to me.
Fast forward to now, on a clear deficit for 10 weeks with four pounds of water weight lost and that's it. Now I have to start thinking that maybe I'm not medicated enough, which is very possible, but there are lots of people who say they can't lose weight or its very slow even fully medicated, unless they're on T3 but most people have a hard time convincing their Dr to prescribe it.
I worry its going to take a year to lose 20 lbs; once its off I can gain again in an instant for no reason other than because my hormones go funky; I won't be able to work out hard (because as Leigh says it messes with adrenal/cortisol issues - which is another area I can't find any info on).
Basically I wonder if not having a thyroid and becoming a personal trainer just doesn't mix.
I am not sure if things are a bit different for someone who does not have a thyroid gland vs someone like me who has one but is hypoT. That might complicate things a bit further. Are you being treated by an endocrinologist or regular doctor for the thyroid replacement? Are you having any other symptoms in addition to the slow loss? And the typical questions are you weighing/tracking all your food honestly, etc? For me, to lose I have to really lower calories below what the basic formulas say I should lose it. It stinks but with much trial and error I found this to be true as much as I hated that idea. Reducing the intensity of my exercise made it easier to stick to this lower calorie level plus kept me from getting too tired/burnt out like I had in the past.
I'm being treated at the moment by an oncologist who I went to for my radio iodine treatment for cancer (the reason my thyroid had to go). The thing is, he did say 4ish months ago that he may increase my presciption next time, so yes I'm probably under-medicated. I don't know if I have other symptoms because so much of it is psychosomatic. I lived most of my 20's with most of the hypo symptoms, it's hard to pick them out.
Around February/March of this year I went from 74 kgs to 70 kgs in like 3 weeks then hit a plateau and lost motivation. Now that I feel like I have an arsenal of information and tons of things to try and willpower, I can't seem to pass 71.9 no matter what.
Maybe I'm freaking out for no reason but I just keep reading reports of people who's doctors basically tell them they have to accept that they just have a crap metabolism now. That does freak me out.
I can try the really low calorie diet again but really low calories and less intense exercise actually depresses me a lot. If it worked I would suck it up and do it anyway I guess. Maybe I should just relax, talk to the doctor and stop reading stupid thyroid horror stories.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Dog
Plus, my desire to remain stunningly attractive outweighs the call of the cheesecake. mostly...
This is what I keep trying to remind myself. A year ago when I had my thyroid out I found the forums with people who say that their levels are "fine" according to their docs but they don't feel right and no one will help. I decided then to forget it and not worry until/unless it happened to me.
Fast forward to now, on a clear deficit for 10 weeks with four pounds of water weight lost and that's it. Now I have to start thinking that maybe I'm not medicated enough, which is very possible, but there are lots of people who say they can't lose weight or its very slow even fully medicated, unless they're on T3 but most people have a hard time convincing their Dr to prescribe it.
I worry its going to take a year to lose 20 lbs; once its off I can gain again in an instant for no reason other than because my hormones go funky; I won't be able to work out hard (because as Leigh says it messes with adrenal/cortisol issues - which is another area I can't find any info on).
Basically I wonder if not having a thyroid and becoming a personal trainer just doesn't mix.
I do not have a thyroid gland. I havent for about ten years. Started out with Graves Dz and had radioactive Iodine to kill it. Then spent the next 8 years on bad meds just going from dose to dose. I now take Armour. Since i've really been working out and watching what I've been eating I've dropped 45 lbs since last October. Now I'll be the first to admit. I cheat and I've taken some time off from "dieting". So that's the reason it has been "slow". But i'm doing ok with my progress. I feel great and I know I sure look better now then I did just a few months ago. So it really depens on how hard you work and how serious you want to be with it. It will happen it may take some time, but I do recommend taking a break now and then. Its important good luck.
Mojo
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"There are things known and things unknown and in between are The Doors"
I wasn't happy with the idea of eating less and working out less intensely either but after reading Leigh's materials and not having luck eating at a smaller deficit and working out harder I figured I would give it a shot. I have lost almost 25 lbs since last December. It was slooooow, I typically ate deficit for 5-6 days and had 1-2 higher days but still counted/tracked etc and never went really overboard with the exception of one time during the holidays. I did take a few week long diet breaks during the time. In the past slow weight loss would make me frustrated and would give up. This time I accepted that it was slow and something was better than nothing (or gaining!)
Hopefully you can get in soon to see your doctor and have your blood checked. I take synthetic hormones but I know some people love the natural ones. Although now there is a shortage of the natural hormones and people I know are being told it might be 3 months before the pharmacies are restocked. NOt sure what is going on.
I have thyroid nodules that are increasing in size and may have to face a choice of the radiated iodine or thyroid removal. Can I ask your ladies experiences with either of these? If I do have to make a choice I have been leaning toward the radiated iodine. Thanks so much for sharing your experiences.
I'm being treated at the moment by an oncologist who I went to for my radio iodine treatment for cancer (the reason my thyroid had to go). The thing is, he did say 4ish months ago that he may increase my presciption next time, so yes I'm probably under-medicated. I don't know if I have other symptoms because so much of it is psychosomatic. I lived most of my 20's with most of the hypo symptoms, it's hard to pick them out.
If you're undertreated, and it sounds like you are, I'd make an appt with an endocrinologist ASAP to get the right meds so you can feel better. When I was undertreated, it felt like I had a constant low-grade flu(with brain fog and memory probs) and I was miserable. A good endo will up your meds, retest you in six weeks and adjust your meds according to the tests AND HOW YOU'RE FEELING.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen
...Maybe I'm freaking out for no reason but I just keep reading reports of people who's doctors basically tell them they have to accept that they just have a crap metabolism now. That does freak me out.
You should be freaked out. I was when I read similar stories, and for years I thought the same way. I was large and in charge, and wore my "I have a diagnosed reason for being fat" weight like armor. Really, that mindset was just an excuse to stop trying IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen
I can try the really low calorie diet again but really low calories and less intense exercise actually depresses me a lot. If it worked I would suck it up and do it anyway I guess...
I hear ya. As a former heavy lifting, supersetting, ultra-low carbing addict, her advice ran counter to everything I'd been taught and believed, but you know what? I tried it and I like the results (1.5 - 2 lbs per week) so far with no burn out.
Leigh mentioned in her podcast that hypos can have bad stress responses and working to exhaustion can futz our hormones. LaraT also mentioned that going too low carb was problematical for us, so I took these ladies' advice and now my sleep is better, my apartment and car are cleaner , and I'm not jumpy and edgy as I was when I was lifting hard.
(FWIW: I'm at 40P/35F/25C, btw 950-1100 cals with minimal 'exercise.' When I decide to start lifting again, naturally my cals will increase.)
Check out Leigh's podcast for hypos and her blog link.
Good luck.
p.s. - Naturethroid is a natural hormone replacement like Armour and there's no shortage of it. My doc switched me to it several weeks ago and I've had no problems.
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I really should leave the house...
You should be freaked out. I was when I read similar stories, and for years I thought the same way. I was large and in charge, and wore my "I have a diagnosed reason for being fat" weight like armor. Really, that mindset was just an excuse to stop trying IMHO.
I hear ya. As a former heavy lifting, supersetting, ultra-low carbing addict, her advice ran counter to everything I'd been taught and believed, but you know what? I tried it and I like the results (1.5 - 2 lbs per week) so far with no burn out.
Leigh mentioned in her podcast that hypos can have bad stress responses and working to exhaustion can futz our hormones. LaraT also mentioned that going too low carb was problematical for us, so I took these ladies' advice and now my sleep is better, my apartment and car are cleaner , and I'm not jumpy and edgy as I was when I was lifting hard.
(FWIW: I'm at 40P/35F/25C, btw 950-1100 cals with minimal 'exercise.' When I decide to start lifting again, naturally my cals will increase.)
p.s. - Naturethroid is a natural hormone replacement like Armour
You're average is 950-1100 cal per day? Really? And at that low cal you're getting 1.5-2 lb loss per week? My average has been 1200 and I havent' wanted to drop it to 950-1100cal. But I'm really getting tired of being on a constant diet and it is having an effect on my energy. It's been 17 weeks almost with a 3-6 pound loss.
Perhaps I should try some weeks on 1050 cal average, but wow, there sure isn't room for fish oil in them thar calories. Like fasting every day almost.... Whew!
but if I could lose 6 pounds per month, in 4.5 months I could be done with deficit.
You're average is 950-1100 cal per day? Really? And at that low cal you're getting 1.5-2 lb loss per week? My average has been 1200 and I havent' wanted to drop it to 950-1100cal. But I'm really getting tired of being on a constant diet and it is having an effect on my energy. It's been 17 weeks almost with a 3-6 pound loss.
Perhaps I should try some weeks on 1050 cal average, but wow, there sure isn't room for fish oil in them thar calories. Like fasting every day almost.... Whew!
but if I could lose 6 pounds per month, in 4.5 months I could be done with deficit.
I.WANT.TO.BE.DONE. That's why the deficit is so aggressive. Leigh suggests this MAY work better for hypos, and for the past 2 weeks, it has.
I tried 1300 cals 5x/wk and 2600 2x/wk, and at my sedentary best, I lost .5-.75 lbs per week for a month. Disheartening.
I think the key is the protein for me. I'm eating a lot of chicken, some salmon, more veggies than a farmer, less red meat and moving a bit. Plenty of vits and fish oil. I'm not hungry due to my decreased activity (it's kind of like a PSMF), but when I am, I eat. If I feel tired or foggy, that means more carbs, usually in the form of a serving of potato wedges, sweet potatoes or some such. No problems so far.
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I really should leave the house...
I.WANT.TO.BE.DONE. That's why the deficit is so aggressive. Leigh suggests this MAY work better for hypos, and for the past 2 weeks, it has.
I tried 1300 cals 5x/wk and 2600 2x/wk, and at my sedentary best, I lost .5-.75 lbs per week for a month. Disheartening.
I think the key is the protein for me. I'm eating a lot of chicken, some salmon, more veggies than a farmer, less red meat and moving a bit. Plenty of vits and fish oil. I'm not hungry due to my decreased activity (it's kind of like a PSMF), but when I am, I eat. If I feel tired or foggy, that means more carbs, usually in the form of a serving of potato wedges, sweet potatoes or some such. No problems so far.
I.WANT.TO.BE.DONE. 2
Are you counting the fish oil in the calories?
Are you on thyroid meds?
thanks
tired tired tired of dieting with compliance and treading water....
.. and only getting tired
Are you counting the fish oil in the calories?
Are you on thyroid meds?
thanks
tired tired tired of dieting with compliance and treading water....
.. and only getting tired
I do count fish oil caps (3g) and flaxseed (1g), but really four grams is not a big deal. I also take a multi, cal/mag/zinc, vit. D, potassium, coq10 and glucosamine/msm for crunchy knees.
I'm also on Naturethroid 90mcg a.m./45mcg p.m.
No worries.
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I really should leave the house...
I do count fish oil caps (3g) and flaxseed (1g), but really four grams is not a big deal. I also take a multi, cal/mag/zinc, vit. D, potassium, coq10 and glucosamine/msm for crunchy knees.
I'm also on Naturethroid 90mcg a.m./45mcg p.m.
No worries.
You're on thyroid medication and STILL you have to eat such low calories to lose??? ugh... I thought the thyroid meds would help a thyroid/metabolism get to be more normal....
Yikes, that sounds abnormally low levels to have to eat. I don't think any adult should have to eat such low calories to lose unless they were bedridden. That does NOT sound normal at all. Thyroid issues or not, I have never heard of someone having to eat so little unless maybe they were already super lean and trying to get sick lean...something ain't right here. Leigh never said a person with thyroid issues needed to eat THAT low.
A properly medicated, and otherwise healthy individual does NOT need to eat that little to lose. Something else is going on.....
Yikes, that sounds abnormally low levels to have to eat. I don't think any adult should have to eat such low calories to lose unless they were bedridden. That does NOT sound normal at all. Thyroid issues or not, I have never heard of someone having to eat so little unless maybe they were already super lean and trying to get sick lean...something ain't right here. Leigh never said a person with thyroid issues needed to eat THAT low.
A properly medicated, and otherwise healthy individual does NOT need to eat that little to lose. Something else is going on.....
It IS low and I know it, but seeing as how I'm uber sedentary (from bed to computer most days) AND Leigh's podcast recommended a harsh deficit (45%+) before recomp... what can I say? It's working where the more moderate deficit I tried before didn't.
I'm kinda doing a cross between Leigh's recs and a PSMF for a max of six weeks, then a week break to review.
Check Leigh's 11/11/2008 podcast for hypos.
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I really should leave the house...
Tiggy, just want to say I am on thyroid meds since May after thyroidectomy(we are still working on the dose) and I have to go as low on calories as you to lose around 1lb a week or less.
(PS have regained 5 pounds from photo by eating around 1500 cals perday the past 6 weeks.) am trying to find maintenance
Tiggy, just want to say I am on thyroid meds since May after thyroidectomy(we are still working on the dose) and I have to go as low on calories as you to lose around 1lb a week or less.
(PS have regained 5 pounds from photo by eating around 1500 cals perday the past 6 weeks.) am trying to find maintenance
Yer body's still smokin', Jedi. I could only PRAY (and mainline clen) to look like you.
I am adequately compensated on my meds across the board and I feel good otherwise, so I'm not blaming the butterfly.
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I really should leave the house...
Thanks to all for the advice. It was actually really helpful to have the conversation to push my thoughts around out of the circular self-feeding mess they were in. I can't know anything until I go to the doctor on Tuesday. And then I'll have to wait and see what kind of effect more meds will do.
I did 1100 calories during the week and higher on the weekend, but only once and I didn't do it right because I ate too high on the weekend. I'm considering bumping wednesday to 1500 for psychological reasons.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Dog
Plus, my desire to remain stunningly attractive outweighs the call of the cheesecake. mostly...
It IS low and I know it, but seeing as how I'm uber sedentary (from bed to computer most days) AND Leigh's podcast recommended a harsh deficit (45%+) before recomp... what can I say? It's working where the more moderate deficit I tried before didn't.
I'm kinda doing a cross between Leigh's recs and a PSMF for a max of six weeks, then a week break to review.
Check Leigh's 11/11/2008 podcast for hypos.
I don't recall Leigh recommending 45% deficit. If you don't mind me asking how much are you looking to lose? Are you "overweight" according to the charts or are you already in your healthy range and just wanting to be really leaner? and you have your thyroid gland right? it wasn't removed.
She did say almost a protein-sparing-modified-fast, but not quite. That meant, to me, have whole eggs rather than egg whites; squash and carrots, even though they're a little carby is ok with dinner. Maybe oatmeal for breakfast, though I was trying not to. I was on about 1100 calories and 50 - 80 carbs a day. Not for very long though; only 4 days, two weeks in a row. Put me in a foul mood.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Dog
Plus, my desire to remain stunningly attractive outweighs the call of the cheesecake. mostly...
She did say almost a protein-sparing-modified-fast, but not quite. That meant, to me, have whole eggs rather than egg whites; squash and carrots, even though they're a little carby is ok with dinner. Maybe oatmeal for breakfast, though I was trying not to. I was on about 1100 calories and 50 - 80 carbs a day. Not for very long though; only 4 days, two weeks in a row. Put me in a foul mood.
Low carb is not optimal for people with thyroid problems.
Low carb is not optimal for people with thyroid problems.
It's probably why I was in such a foul mood. I only did it for two weeks and hated it really. What I read was at least 30 grams a day and I couldn't eat less than that if I tried. How high do you think we should stay?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Dog
Plus, my desire to remain stunningly attractive outweighs the call of the cheesecake. mostly...
Hypothyroid - How Lean?
Can I ask your ladies experiences with either of these? If I do have to make a choice I have been leaning toward the radiated iodine. Thanks so much for sharing your experiences.
, and I'm not jumpy and edgy as I was when I was lifting hard.
I only did it for two weeks and hated it really. What I read was at least 30 grams a day and I couldn't eat less than that if I tried. How high do you think we should stay?
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