The Fat Loss TroubleshootThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. This section is led by Leigh Peele, author of "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot," the ultimate fat loss manual. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
I was going to follow the advice I read here regarding taking breaks periodically and take a break from my diet before I do the OPT fat loss program, as I've been eating at below maintenance for 3 months now..
However a review of my intake for the past 3 months shows I haven't been as adherent as I could have been..
The trend has been calories under maintenence, though..
Do I need a reset, or have these unintentional "refeeds" been enough?
Also, seeing as how I've been having success at losing weight just by eating 500 cals under maintenence (2700), should I just continue doing it this way, maybe increase the deficit and build in weekly refeeds?
Note the macros have stuck pretty much to 35/25/40
April
4 3130, WO 5 2860 6 2940, WO
7 2375
8 2780 9 2950, WO
10 2375
11 2780 WO 12 2950
13
14 2533, WO Started reading Fat Loss Troubleshoot 15 2915
16 2580 WO, w= 225, Started keeping track of weight w= 225 17 2930
18 2400
19 2550, WO
20 2520 21 2841 , WO
22 2650
23 2600 WO, Hurt my back..
24 2300 (so I cut back on the cals, as figured no WO, less cals needed)
25 2350 w=222
26 2310
27 2430
28 2740 29 2990
30 2540 , w=220
May
1 2540 w=219
2 2725
3 2560 back to the gym
4 2760
5 2760 6 3050, WO, started NROL
7 2640 8 2900, WO
9 2650 10 3050, WO
11 2560, w=218
12 2670
13 2630, WO
14 2700, PN book arrives
15 2650, WO
16 2690
17 2715, WO 18 3175, w=216 Got body fat measured (21.5) 19 3275, WO
20 2750
21 2770, WO
22 2720, w=216 23 2870
24 Week of camping
25 2600?
26 2700?
27 2700?
28 2700?
June
1 2700?
2 2700?
3 2700? WO, w=214
4 2600
5 2750, WO
6 2500
7 2750, WO 8 3060
9 2700, WO
10 2700
11 2560 WO
12 2560
13 2630, WO
14 2700
15 2645 WO
16 2690
17 2600, WO, w=211
18 2690
19 2710, WO
20 2670
21 2610 WO
22 2600 23 2960 WO
24 2560
25 2600, w=210
27 2780, WO
28 2500
29 2500, WO
30 2590
I'd say take a break. That looks like a pretty consistent deficit to me.
Aside from that, I do wonder why you're changing programs when what you're doing already seems to be working.
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They call me Amanda, that being my real name, and "They" being people who know me in person as I don't go around introducing myself in real life as "scribess." 'Cause that would just be strange.
Aside from that, I do wonder why you're changing programs when what you're doing already seems to be working.
PS
I should have said it IS working, but Alan Aragon (among others) says that at my fat level, I could stand to lose 2-3 lbs a week without risk of too much lean body mass..
So.. It's a long way to 11% body fat, at the rate I'm going at currently..
I want to step it up a bit so I can ditch the diet and start eating for mass again..
why not just whack off another 500 calories per day or even 750 more?
I think that might indeed be what's called for in Lyle's Rapid Fat Loss diet..
I'll have to read it tonight..
I'll continue at 2700 for a couple more weeks, so I have a good track record of deficit eating under my belt, and will feel better about taking a 2 week break..
Doug you have already answered your own question over and again. Your body doesn't NEED a break from deficit I'd say. You really are not in that big of a deficit. That said if you have having a hard time with compliance it may be a good thing to do anyway. Diet break isn't just about what your body needs. It is also for your mental well being.
WRT you having a hard time chosing goals, I totally get it even though it is annoying to watch it from afar (Old Guy is showing his displeasure with it I see) LOL! The concept of fat loss is very simple. But YOU have to figure out what do you want to do. Refer again to Nov AARR and the choices that you have for body recomping a, b, c, d. You have to decide how you want to lean between a and b. Do you want to drop the weight as quickly as possible with everything else taking second priority? Then go for the fat loss as quickly as possible plan. If you want to lose fat but want to make sure muscle doesn't go away at all then pick b instead of a. Becuase your bf is pretty high, you have the option of doing a pretty quick fat loss plan 2-3 lbs a week without sacrificing too much mucle. If you can handle the deficit and the bit of muscle loss that will occur, that will get you to your goal the quickest (while still being non-retarded). If that doesn't work for you (for whatever reason) go for a slower rate of loss.
Pretty simple in concept and hard to figure out. But in order to figure it out you really do have to pick a goal (one) and a plan (one) and stick to it long enough to understand what is going on.
On a personal level I feel like you should stop reading all of these diet plans and just learn about nutrition as it pertains to you. How is RFL going to do anything different for you? Most of those plans are designed for people who don't wanna learn about macros, counting cals etc. You are already there nutritionally. You count calories, you get macro distribution. All you have to do is stick to that and figure out what cals work for your current goal. Lyle McDonal says it best when he says that for an overweight person ANY non-retarded plan will work just fine for fat loss.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
That said if you have having a hard time with compliance it may be a good thing to do anyway.
Nope, like I say, I'm more than ready and willing to keep chugging away..
But I do respect the opinions of Lyle and Leigh..
I'll just have to see if indeed it's DRASTIC defecits they refer to when recommending breaks, or ANYTHING short of maintenance..
It's not a question of need, either..
They say you should do it if you want to MAXIMIZE the effeciency of defecit eating, as eating less than maintenece over prolonged periods will affect hormones, etc. to an extent that a reset is beneficial..
And that's what I want.. Maximum effeciency..
If taking a break for 2 weeks will help me do that, so be it..
And if I can get it done and over with sooner so that I can get on with adding plates and hopefully muscle, all the better..
Quote:
Do you want to drop the weight as quickly as possible with everything else taking second priority?
See above..
Quote:
Then go for the fat loss as quickly as possible plan.
Agreed..
Quote:
I can't wait to see the threads when Doug starts doing 800 calorie days
LOL
HOW long is this diet supposed to go on for? 3 MONTHS?
I'm reading still..
I'll wait till I get to the end and decide wether I have the fortitude to take the fastest route or not..
I AM having success with this mild defecit, even though it's taking longer..
I may indeed just up the defecit a bit and speed things up just a bit, rather than "brutally" (I see this term bandied about alot with the RFL diet, and it's not encouraging.. LOL).
Thanks for all the comments, and I AM sorry for the exasperation I put you guys through..
But I like to cover my bases and look before I leap, and asking the "dumb" questions rather than charging ahead and regreting stuff later..
When calculated you'll probably be about 1100 calories per day. Of that about 100 will be from carbs (about 25g.) That's the hard part. Some people have difficulty on low carb (I think Karla has a tough time with it). It will probably take the first week to get used to that.
Meet the protein requirements and you should not have hunger problems.
Be prepared to change your workouts. I seriously doubt you can do SS on this diet (I don't think NROL would be advised).
You're probably category 2 so you would follow the diet for 2-6 week before taking a break. Then you can decide what to do after that.
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"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
You're probably category 2 so you would follow the diet for 2-6 week before taking a break.
I am, and I should be able to handle it for that time period..
But from what I've read so far even Lyle doesn't think it's such a good idea..
Of the reasons he gives for possibly NEEDING to do this drastic diet, the one that fits me is being in too much of a hurry to get back to a regular eating and lifting routine as quickly as possible..
I don't know if that's the best of reasons, and that I might be better served just cutting calories a bit more, perhaps even doubling it to a 1,000 cals a day (2100-2000)..
I'll ask him wether I need to take a diet break at such a mild deficit..
He already intimated that I should, but I'll clarify my position and see what he says..
I think a safe bet would be that you could drop maybe 3-4% body fat per cycle of the diet. Wanting to get to 11% would still take you 3 cycles, with putting in breaks, would be 24 weeks (from now until the end of the year). In the grand scheme of things that's not so long.
Patience, padawan.
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"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
You'll drop fast in the first week but it will be mostly water weight. Then it will slow down so don't be discouraged (last week I lost 3 lbs, this week 5 - the first week was 7 lbs.)
I think a safe bet is 15 lbs. per cycle. You'll probably add back 3-5 on the break.
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"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
Of course after you can build back up to 190 @11%. I just think it will be hard to cut to 190 at that body fat level. Say you're 207 @20% now -that's 41lbs bf. 190 @11% is 21 lbs. bf. The only way you can probably do that is go lower and come back up.
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"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
When calculated you'll probably be about 1100 calories per day. Of that about 100 will be from carbs (about 25g.) That's the hard part. Some people have difficulty on low carb (I think Karla has a tough time with it). It will probably take the first week to get used to that.
Meet the protein requirements and you should not have hunger problems.
Why are you suggesting a 1100 cal diet for Doug. If Doug eats 1700 cal he's cut his cal down from what he's now eating by 800, and 1700 is do-able. 1100 is really really low, even for me; seems drastic for a guy.
Also, Doug, it sounds like you WANT a refeed 2 weeks... You keep bringing it up. Are you speaking from what you want or what you need? It doesn't matter. I would think it's okay to take a break from a "want." But it's more empowering if you know that you are taking a break because you want to and not because you need to.
Who knows, you may be able to lose faster. But you'll never know until you try with a full commitment. And that means not blowing a gasket when "hey I lost a pound yesterday but only .87 today. What's up with that?"
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"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
The old guy is summarizing all pretty well including the fact that Karla cannot do 25g of carbs a day. Even at 120g a day I suffer from terrible mood swings and energy crashes. All trainers (I believe) acknowledge that some people simply cannot do low carbs and Lyle even sets up an alternate diet for those peope in UD2. That said, there is a 2-3 week time period that feels worse than the rest. See if you can make it through this time period before you determine that you cannot do low carb. (it feels like the flu)
So Doug, keep in mind that what you are chosing with RFL is to go on an EXTREME diet. This will do two things. 1. You will lose more LBM on this than on a slower diet. 2. It will be unGodly hard, mentally and physically. You're gonna feel like shit.
Also you are striking out for an 11% bf goal. You probably haven't been in that bf range since you were a teen. So you'll prolly go back to closer to your teenage weight. The first time I dropped bf% to ultra low numbers I weighed less than I did in highschool. Be prepared to see yourself very small to hit this 11% goal very quickly. That is the trade off.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
The old guy is summarizing all pretty well including the fact that Karla cannot do 25g of carbs a day. Even at 120g a day I suffer from terrible mood swings and energy crashes. All trainers (I believe) acknowledge that some people simply cannot do low carbs and Lyle even sets up an alternate diet for those peope in UD2. That said, there is a 2-3 week time period that feels worse than the rest. See if you can make it through this time period before you determine that you cannot do low carb. (it feels like the flu)
So Doug, keep in mind that what you are chosing with RFL is to go on an EXTREME diet. This will do two things. 1. You will lose more LBM on this than on a slower diet. 2. It will be unGodly hard, mentally and physically. You're gonna feel like shit.
Also you are striking out for an 11% bf goal. You probably haven't been in that bf range since you were a teen. So you'll prolly go back to closer to your teenage weight. The first time I dropped bf% to ultra low numbers I weighed less than I did in highschool. Be prepared to see yourself very small to hit this 11% goal very quickly. That is the trade off.
1. Where is this "alternate UD2 diet" you speak of? It's not in my UD2 book.
2. The whole purpose of RFL is that you WON'T lose LBM whilst losing fat more rapidly
Quote: In contrast to commonly held belief that faster weight loss is associated with a worse long-term result, research actually suggests that faster initial weight loss may be superior to slower approaches. The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook approaches the topic scientifically and presents an integrated program of nutrition and training to generate the fastest possible fat loss with no loss of muscle or performance. Maintenance and exercise are all discussed in detail as well.
ETA: Good luck, Doug! I think you'll do great on RFL and I'll be following along! (I'm on the other board, too).
The whole purpose of RFL is that you WON'T lose LBM whilst losing fat more rapidly
That was my understanding..
Well, that you WOULD lose LBM, but that it wouldn't be muscle (or not much, anyways, especially if I keep weight lifting)..
ie. it'd be everything BUT muscle..
Water, glycogen, etc..
I think I WILL try this RFL diet..
It IS the shortest route from A to B, and if it doesn't work for me, I can always say I tried it, and can move on to the 1,000 cal deficit method..
So I'll continue on a 500 cal deficit till the 20th, then I go on holidays for 2 weeks, during which time I'll take a diet break and try to keep cals up to 3200, still eating relatively clean.. Then after that I'll get going on the diet..
So till then I guess I'll have to see where to get this caffeine and ephedrine stuff, and order that.. read and re-read and read again the RFL diet book and make sure I know what I'm doing, and by Aug 1st I should be ready..
Thanks for the input, everyone!
I'll of course be documenting it on my training log..
Do I need to take a break from my defecit?
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