Stalled - wait for a whoosh or change things up?

[seela]

Hi, all! I have been in a deficit since the beginning of March and have been losing between 4-6 pounds a month. Here are the stats:

F 37yo
5'4"
weight on 3/7/09: 157
wt. on 6/22/09: 139
bf%: 25% calipers, 29% tanita scale (I think both are about as reliable as the magic 8 ball, but in any event, I still have some fat to lose)
Daily calorie intake: 1400-1500 calories going for a 40/30/30 macro distribution
Workouts: NROLWStage 1 3days/wk. Cardio, usu.steady state 30-40 min. 4 days/wk

I weigh daily and since 6/5 I have weighed in every day btw. 139-140 - so the weight has been the same for a little over two weeks. I have tightened up on my diet compliance over the last week, but so far, no movement. Also, I started NROLW on 6/12 and have been super sore ever since. I would appreciate some advice about what to do next. here are the options I've been considering:

Option 1: Wait for the whoosh
Factors in favor:
1. Although my weight hasn't moved in 2 weeks, I have lost 2-3 pounds as of June 1, which doesn't really put me too far off track of my 4-6 pounds/ month average since beginning deficit.

2. two weeks isn't all that long to be at roughly the same scale weight

3. Soreness and hormonal issues could be causing water retention that I just need to wait out.

Option 2: Lower calories
Factors in favor: May be I've lost my deficit and I need to do it to get back in a deficit. I don't have a GWF, so I don't really know where my burn is, but I am a SAHM of two small children, so I am on my feet a lot. Particularly now that I understand NEAT a little better, I try not to sit down much during the day, other than driving. I even have my computer on a kitchen counter, so I stand to check e-mail, etc. But I understand that decreased bodyweight and other factors may have brought me to the point where I'm just going to need to cut calories more.

Option 3: Diet break
Factors in favor:

1. I've been in a deficit for 15 weeks, which is consistent with recommendations for a diet break that I've read, including Venuto's Body Fat Solution.

2. If I need the break to give me a jump start, waiting for a whoosh could just be a waste of time.


I do not own FLTS b/c until now I have not had any fat loss trouble to shoot. I'm open to making the purchase if people think it would really help me, but right now, I just don't have the extra cash to spend on something I don't truly need.

If you made it through all that, thanks a lot and I would appreciate any advice, including any options other than the three above. Thanks everyone!

[dianas]

I'm no expert here by any means but offhand I'd say that a diet break is in order if it's been 15 weeks. I don't see how that could hurt. Even if it isn't the problem right now you may be needing one soon anyway so this might be a good time to take one.

My guess would be water retention/inflammation from your new routine considering you're sore from NROLW. It looks like you only recently started that program. Even if you were weight training prior to 6/12 it must be different enough from your previous exercise since you're sore. It sounds like some can handle the program while in a deficit and others cannot. I'm not a big fan of changing too many things all at once I think it makes it harder to figure out what helps and what doesn't. For some switching to NROLW is a pretty major change in and of itself and if this is the case for you... At this point I'd probably just wait and see how you do overall with NROLW before changing anything other than a break.

If you're still stalled after adjusting to NROLW then maybe look at overall calories. You're 18 lbs lighter. Congratulations.

[LaraT]

many people experienced a stall in loss when starting NROL as far as I can remember.

[seela]

Thanks, Diana! I had been lifting weights prior to starting NROLW, but OMG, I'm still really sore. I thought I had read somewhere that soreness causes water retention, so that could be contributing. One thing I forgot to mention is that I am going on vacation the last week of July, which will coincide with completion of Stage 1 and my original plan was to take a diet and w/o break that week. That doesn't rule out taking a diet break earlier, but that vacation week will be something of a diet break also (at least a break from weighing and measuring food), just based on circumstances.

[TBDX00]

Nrol is a great training program but not a great on talking about diet for fat loss or bulk program. Get Leigh's book for the diet, mix it with the NROL lifting if you want, and you will get faster results.

http://www.fatlosstroubleshoot.com

I talk abou it alot because it changed everything for me and I think people need to talk it up more to save people time.

[TheWookie]

Clearly, I am not Leigh , but speaking from personal experience it gets harder for me to lose weight as I approach my goal. Just for me, it requires me to be even stricter (and it sounds like you're doing that) as well as changing my workouts. Even something as simple as adding on a mile walk with the dog a few days a week can be enough to get me losing again.

I'm sure you will get great advice here as to whether a break is in order.

You've done a great job on those first 18 lbs! Congratulations!

[Aoife]

And how is your activity other than your workouts, esp since you've started NR and been so sore?

[seela]

Clearly, I am not Leigh , but speaking from personal experience it gets harder for me to lose weight as I approach my goal. Just for me, it requires me to be even stricter (and it sounds like you're doing that) as well as changing my workouts. Even something as simple as adding on a mile walk with the dog a few days a week can be enough to get me losing again.

I'm sure you will get great advice here as to whether a break is in order.

You've done a great job on those first 18 lbs! Congratulations!

Thanks. You are right. I have had to be even stricter with the food than I was when I started. As for activity, I think I am less sedentary than most, since I don't have a desk job, but I could easily add a walk with the kids a few times a week. I will definitely give that a try.

And how is your activity other than your workouts, esp since you've started NR and been so sore?

It depends . This is where the GWF would come in handy, but if I'm going to spend money on anything right now it's going to be FLTS (if I decide I need it). My days vary with activity. Sometimes, I'm largely in the house playing with the kids, though on those days I try to do a lot of cleaning and be inefficient with my trips upstairs. It's hard to say if the soreness is making me do less of that than I had been. Other days, I am outside, walking around, doing errands, pushing a shopping cart or a stroller. Some days, I spend what seems like a good amount of time toting a 28 pound 2yo around. For example, last week I took the kids to the botanical gardens and when we got there, I realized I'd forgotten the stroller. That meant I had to carry the diaper bag and a big beach bag with towels, lunch, water bottles and change of clothes the whole time we were there. Then, when it was time to come home, the 2yo was exhausted, so I had to carry her out as well. It was a good amount of walking and I feel sure I burned plenty of NEAT calories. The good thing about that kind of activity with the kids is that I don't really feel I have the option of slacking because I'm sore.

[dianas]

I love my GWF and wouldn't do without it. However a pedometer though would give you a general idea of how active you are outside of the gym. It would be more affordable for now.

FLTS is definately worth the investment. Think of it as your reference book for fat loss. It's something you can come back to again and again and reread pertinent sections for whatever is going on at the time. It's not like some other diet books out there where I would read them once (maybe from the library if I just wanted to know what others are reading) and could summarize the content in two sentences.

[sunshinekisses]

Originally Posted by seela

I've been in a deficit for 15 weeks, which is consistent with recommendations for a diet break that I've read, including Venuto's Body Fat Solution.

2. If I need the break to give me a jump start, waiting for a whoosh could just be a waste of time.

Take a diet break.

Eat at maintenance calories (approx BWx14-16, depending on activity level) for 10-14 days then come back to dieting.

After 15 weeks in deficit you are due for a break.

[seela]

FLTS is definately worth the investment. Think of it as your reference book for fat loss. It's something you can come back to again and again and reread pertinent sections for whatever is going on at the time. It's not like some other diet books out there where I would read them once (maybe from the library if I just wanted to know what others are reading) and could summarize the content in two sentences.

I'm sure that FLTS is awesome. Frankly, Leigh's food weighing and measuring video alone would be worth paying for. Ever since I stumbled across Leigh's stuff thanks to the JP forums (Thanks, NROLW!), I have been reading everything she's written and listening to her podcasts and the Fitcast and generally worshipping at the altar of fabulousness that is Leigh. Just through applying some of the tips I learned from reading and listening I was able to lose 19 pounds (I'm down to 138 as of today. yay.) after being stalled for 6 months. The only reason I put off purchasing FLTS was the relative expense and because I think I have heard or read Leigh saying that basically if what you're doing is working (which it was, and to some extent, still is), you don't really need FLTS. I love me some books though and my birthday is coming up, so perhaps FLTS will be a present to myself.

Take a diet break.

Eat at maintenance calories (approx BWx14-16, depending on activity level) for 10-14 days then come back to dieting.

After 15 weeks in deficit you are due for a break.

I think I am going to do a diet break. Even though I did manage to lose a pound this week ( see above) through strict control of intake and concerted effort not to decrease NEAT, I've decided a break is probably still a good idea. One thing I've noticed, particularly the last few days is that I have been a lot hungrier than ususal. Like I'll eat what used to be a satisfying meal for me (abt. 400 cal at breakfast, 300-350 for other meals and snacks) and then like 45 minutes later, I'm hungry again. And actual hunger, not just "I'm sick of dieting, somebody get me a cheeseburger immediately" hunger. So I think that could be a sign.

I'm getting fairly close to where I think I want to be weight-wise, so it's definitely tempting to just try to push through, but I think taking the long view is healthier. After all, I started a little more than two years ago at 192 pounds, so it's obviously been a slow process. But now I can fit into all but the smallest of the small items in my wardrobe and a week or so of not dieting is not going to change that.

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice!

[stingo]

The hunger could also be a sign that your diet is actually working in that your body is turning on its defense systems in ramping up your appetite.

[MQ5]

Mind if I tag on to this post? I have been stalled for about 3 weeks. This is getting old lol
I keep waiting for the woosh - I retain a lot of water sometimes and I can see it in my legs, so I know that water is there. But it is not budging! I even tried a diuretic. To no effect.
I actually had a day about 10 days ago where I thought I had hit my woosh. I peed all day long - gallons and gallons and not 1 pound lost. wtf?

so I have been going over my habits and two things come up.
1. I have been riding my bike a lot more. Not a lot by some standards but about 3 hours a week which is about 2 hours more than before.
2. About 2 weeks ago I started taking SAM-e to help with some arthritis issues. I am taking far less than the recommendation of 800 to 1400 mg a day. I am only taking 100 mg a day. But along with that I have added a B complex as it is recommended when taking SAM-e. I suspect that the SAM-e is the culprit but I have not read anything that it causes water retention or may stall weight loss efforts. I am loathe to give it up because it is actually starting to work for what I intended. It is about as good as taking advil. Seriously. But with advil I would have to take it several times a day.

Any way - today I did a high carb (for me) refeed. I probably did not do it just right because I dont have the book. I was just winging it. I did not count cals today in an effort to make sure I got at least maintenance in. But as I review my cal intake I can say I failed to reach maintenance. I did not even have a huge amount of carbs - maybe 50-60% but I felt so disgusting! I could not force myself to eat anything else today. I felt really bloated. As an estimate (counting a 30% overage for error) I hit 1600 calories today. Roughly what I normally eat to maintain a deficit of about 700-800 cals.
I dont know if I am asking for help or just whining! lol
please - if you feel inclined to advise, whine back or even scold - go ahead!

[seela]

The hunger could also be a sign that your diet is actually working in that your body is turning on its defense systems in ramping up your appetite.

I guess it could be. All I know is that it's a fairly recent change. I'm planning to stay in deficit for a few more days to make it an even 16 weeks, so maybe I'll see a little more loss in that time.

MQ5: Obviously, I'm in no position to offer advice, but I can offer sympathy. Stalling stinks!!!

[scribess]

Originally Posted by MQ5

Any way - today I did a high carb (for me) refeed. I probably did not do it just right because I dont have the book. I was just winging it. I did not count cals today in an effort to make sure I got at least maintenance in. But as I review my cal intake I can say I failed to reach maintenance. I did not even have a huge amount of carbs - maybe 50-60% but I felt so disgusting! I could not force myself to eat anything else today. I felt really bloated. As an estimate (counting a 30% overage for error) I hit 1600 calories today. Roughly what I normally eat to maintain a deficit of about 700-800 cals.
I dont know if I am asking for help or just whining! lol
please - if you feel inclined to advise, whine back or even scold - go ahead!

I've discovered that for me, refeeds have to be scheduled/deliberate--I have to count the calories to make sure I get them all in. Winging it doesn't work for me, or else, like you, I wind up low.

Regarding feeling "disgusting," what sort of carbs did you eat? Did you spread them out throughout the day or just once or twice? Honestly I don't know too much about refeeds since I haven't done them much, but if you eat the quick-digesting "bad" carbs we're told to avoid (white bread, pasta, etc.) throughout the day, that might help.

[MQ5]

Thanks scribess. I had a croissant, a small muffn and pasta and a banana. All spread out between breakfast and up to dinner. I had planned spaghetti for dinner but I could not go there! I had chicken instead.

I have never been a big carb eater anyway. It was like eating pure candy. I felt nauseas. I also felt just ill - not shakey but just generally ill.
On the plus side - I woke up 1 lbs lighter! But it seemed like 3. I have been fluxing back and forth from 125 to 128 for the last few weeks. Today I woke up at 123.9.
Yay me!
I will try the carb thing again if I need to. But oy! There has to be a better way!

[scribess]

Well, it looks like it did what you wanted it to! Again, I have limited experience with refeeds, so honestly I don't know what the better way would be.