The Fat Loss TroubleshootThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. This section is led by Leigh Peele, author of "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot," the ultimate fat loss manual. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
When I first started to lose weight all I wanted to be is skinny. At that time I would have killed to have a small body like Britney Spears or Eva Logoria; now I look at women like Hilary Swank (in million dollar baby), Jessica Biel (in Blade Trinity) and Linda Hamilton (in T2) and I think damn they look strong, lean and powerful. Now all I want is to get myself muscualr and really lean. I get offended when people call me "skinny"
I find it sad (although probably, as Leigh said, accurate)... I don't understand the mindset anymore that muscles are ugly or bad. I just don't. Those women look AWESOME! I mean - who wouldn't want to be strong? Helpless is NOT an appealing trait!!!! Ugh. I raise my daughter to be a strong independent young woman who doesn't "need" a man to rescue her or take care of her. This whole petite SKINNY thing just bugs me... and that more women would rather be fat than muscular!?!?!!? ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!
I mean... it's not like Leigh posted pics of female body-builders who have done 'roids and look truly masculine...
I agree with Jane and Bytsi. I was raised in an athletic, active home and played sports my whole life. So being strong and fit = beautiful to me and most of my teammates and friends. I think like most things, your upbringing and the role models in your life shape your opinions and preferences.
I commented on Leigh's post, but here is what I said:
I wondered what they survey would show if you had pictures of women the same size as Biel, but at higher BF%. This also came up recently because of something my husband said to me. I was goofing around and flexing my biceps and asked him “what do you think of the guns?” Laughing, he says “they look great” I then asked something like “what do you think of the look of my arms compared to a year ago?” He said “They look better, but bigger.” In actuality, I am at a lower BF % and my arms are actually 1 inch or more smaller in diameter. So to him they “look” bigger, but based on his comment it was because his perception of my arm definition that leads to a bigger look in his eyes.
Oh, I am for sure happy and bulky. I just found the answers amazing and while it made me a little sad, I could give an F what people think is attractive, LOL. It was just a very eye opening read for me.
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Ginger
"The miracle isn't that I finished. The miracle is that I had the courage to start." ~ John Bingham
I find the survey & article sad as well. It does give insight into what some women are thinking (not that there's anything wrong with that - or maybe there is).
If those women are bulky - what the heck do you say about this forum's favorite pole vaulter:
On the non-bulky pics, I keep thinking: wow, if they'd put on some muscle, they'd look so AWESOME! Specially the top right one.
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Vegetarian, consumer of large quantities of Quark cheese
Working my way from 76.4 to 58 kg (168 - 127.6 lbs)
Lifting a bit, schedule varies. Barbell weight: 22kg/48.4#
I, personally, really enjoyed that article too. It was interesting to me to see the video clip and the "digs" that the strong women were getting. I take a lot of "digs" from people because of my choices in body composition. This article sure did drive home the thinking of the masses here.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
I don't know. I love the muscle look, but I don't enjoy having to lower my bodyfat enough to make muscles look good. Otherwise, like Leigh said, you just look fatter and firmer. I'm looking fatter and firmer now, and I have to say don't like it much. I looked better before I started lifting, really. Of course, once/if the weight comes off, I'll have done a succesful bodycomp, but I'm not sure it was worth all the effort (to me).
I think I would much prefer to have a modest amount of muscle with a easy to keep amount of bodyfat%, than a lot of muscle and having to work on keeping my bodyfat% low forever.
What does this mean? The masses here at JPs or the masses here (that is, in your town/environment)?
The masses in general is what I meant and I would include this forum. That said, I would say that here the women are more apt to like the muscled look but I have heard comments from some here on being "too" muscled too. Since I am one of the more "amazon" or more more muscled women (one of the boyz), I have to wonder what those comments mean and where the line is drawn. Seems that as long as it doesn't cross your personal preference for "muscled" all is well. Even in this thread we have a bit of it going on...
it's not like Leigh posted pics of female body-builders who have done 'roids and look truly masculine...
Not to pick on the poster, but this statement is not exactly an "accepting" statement for women who choose this path for themselves. It exemplifies exactly what the article talks about. We are no better than the skinny girls in the video if we find the female body-builders on roids to be too bulky and amazon. Acceptance is what I took from the article. I accept those who want to be small and those who want to get big and compete even at top levels. A fit body is a good body. The way that body looks (after the genetics part of course) is a personal prefrence thing and it is all good.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
It seems as if there is a range or sliding scale on just about everything in society.
Muscle on a woman is OK, but "too much" muscle is reviled. As long as your body is somewhere in the middle, you're good.
I agree with kfisherx.
How much muscle is "too much"? And why should it matter?
Even in this thread we have a bit of it going on...
it's not like Leigh posted pics of female body-builders who have done 'roids and look truly masculine...
Not to pick on the poster, but this statement is not exactly an "accepting" statement for women who choose this path for themselves. It exemplifies exactly what the article talks about. We are no better than the skinny girls in the video if we find the female body-builders on roids to be too bulky and amazon. Acceptance is what I took from the article. I accept those who want to be small and those who want to get big and compete even at top levels. A fit body is a good body. The way that body looks (after the genetics part of course) is a personal prefrence thing and it is all good.
Well, that is you interpreting her meaning. Maybe "masculine" to her meant that mannish face that seems to take something more than just low bf levels for women to get. Or maybe it wasn't a disapproving comment at all, but simply saying "it's not like the pics were at the extreme end of the bulky continuum" or whathaveyou.
And from that you infer her level of acceptance of said roid-shootin bbers, and from THAT infer her acceptance of other points on that side of the continuum.
it's not like Leigh posted pics of female body-builders who have done 'roids and look truly masculine...
Not to pick on the poster, but this statement is not exactly an "accepting" statement for women who choose this path for themselves. It exemplifies exactly what the article talks about. We are no better than the skinny girls in the video if we find the female body-builders on roids to be too bulky and amazon. Acceptance is what I took from the article. I accept those who want to be small and those who want to get big and compete even at top levels. A fit body is a good body. The way that body looks (after the genetics part of course) is a personal prefrence thing and it is all good.
'twas me -- what I was trying to say was that Leigh didn't post "extreme" pics that the general public might see as out of the ordinary or "Icky". She posted women with relatively attainable bodies, women who appear athletic and strong. The extreme end of female bodybuilders don't fall into that "strong girl next door" range... Just as if she'd posted anorexic pics to show skinny (which she didn't) -- I was saying that she hadn't tried to skew the results by posting pics of people who are at the way far extreme end of things... No prejudice or judgment intended
Since I am one of the more "amazon" or more more muscled women (one of the boyz), I have to wonder what those comments mean and where the line is drawn.
Having recently been at The Arnold, I don't quite think I'd call you amazon!! See above pic that Bytsi posted for that!
And I meant to post earlier that what I think is cool is that around here (JP's) I love that many women have the goals of muscle and that it is accepted. That is what I was thinking when I was reading all the comments. It doesn't mean everyone has the same goals, but I never see people cut on anyone else because they have "too much" muscle. Love that.
I'll be honest and share that I haven't asked my husband what he prefers. One, I am pretty damn sure it isn't going to be the answer I want to hear and two, it just simply isn't going to make me change my goals.
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Ginger
"The miracle isn't that I finished. The miracle is that I had the courage to start." ~ John Bingham
I posted this in Pips training log...it's my ideal body / wish picture. Leaning hard towards the "Amazon Woman" end of the scale, but Bysti's picture made me realize not that far towards that end of the scale.
Having recently been at The Arnold, I don't quite think I'd call you amazon!! See above pic that Bytsi posted for that!
1. FYI: I LOVE the woman's body that Bytsi posted (the one you call Amazon) and would love to have that physique. (I already know I never could but that woud be SOOOO badass) Okay maybe her waist is a bit thick but otherwise it works for me. I know I am slanted a bit differently than many of you, but I am cool with that and Leigh's article hit on this point exactly to me.
2. I appreciate your "Arnold" perspective Jane but the fact is that people have called me Amazon, stared rudely, pointed or otherwise have made shitty comments to me about how I currently look and how I fit in more with da boyz more than the women. I have read posts on here where women compare me (saying they don't want to be as muscled as me). In fact I am pretty sure there was a comment on this topic recently from one of the Summit threads. (Something about me being one of the boyz) Perhaps this was not intended so much about my looks but it is part of the big picture here. Just saying that this group is not excluded from the prejudice of too much muscle or manliness in a women. There is a general NON-acceptance in society of any woman who wants to do competitive bbing whether she do drugs or not as that takes it just one step beyond where even some of you guys seem to be comfy.
Just so I am clear on this. (and I appreciate that you all responded so kindly so far) I hold no malice for this and totally understand it. (Bytsi, I get what you meant in your comment and did not take offense. Yes it is extreme.) This topic is what it is. If you don't like that look, it is your personal opinion and you may voice it. I have my own opinions about what looks good and voice them as well. To me, it's all good. I have decided that I am going for as much muscle as I can amass (naturally for now) and see where it all goes. In order to do this, I have to take the comments and critism in stride and continue towards my goal. For the most part I do get nothing but support from you guys and I do love you for that.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Edit - I cross posted with you, Karla. Don't want you to think I was blowing by your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfisherx
it's not like Leigh posted pics of female body-builders who have done 'roids and look truly masculine...
Not to pick on the poster, but this statement is not exactly an "accepting" statement for women who choose this path for themselves. It exemplifies exactly what the article talks about. We are no better than the skinny girls in the video if we find the female body-builders on roids to be too bulky and amazon. Acceptance is what I took from the article. I accept those who want to be small and those who want to get big and compete even at top levels. A fit body is a good body. The way that body looks (after the genetics part of course) is a personal prefrence thing and it is all good.
I think Jay Cutler and Ronnie Coleman are too bulky.
If one uses steroids and gets bigger than natural can produce, there's no reason we need to accept it as good looking. Sure, it's their choice, but so is being too skinny, and few here would say that too skinny is a good look.
That being said, I think the big disconnect is in what constitutes an "amazon." On the video in Leigh's article, there are some athletic women, who aren't jacked at all, merely more athletic than the others. They get labeled "amazons" and worse. Yes, they seem taller than the others, but mostly, they are just in shape and athletic compared to the other girls. Not one of them was mannish. They looked like they were into sports at some point, and were confident in moving around, pitching a tent, hiking, lifting more than a jug of water... they also seemed to wear no makeup and wore athletic clothes.
Part of the survey's findings might be one of semantics and knowledge base. Linda Hamilton was not bulky at all, merely lean. The other "bulky" women are a little more muscular, but also pretty lean compared to most of humanity in America.
I don't want to get NOW into this, so I won't mention that subconsciously, some women might want to be "smaller" because they want to be taken care of (on some level). And, since most men are weak, small, and out of shape from lack of physical work... what choice do they have?
I was really surprised that anyone would think that Linda Hamilton is too bulky. I did not watch the video though - my itty bitty computer is a poor choice for videos. But the still shots looked simply fit to me. But perhaps muscles are one of the last frontiers for equal rights. The soft but slim look seems to be a hold over from when women were not even expected to work outside the home - let alone actually DO anything.
You know what - I can not wait until more of my muscle is visible. I am on the short side and now that I have lost almost 30 lbs people are starting to treat me like a kid again. I dont like that. Thank you very much I really can carry that 5 gallon paint bucket and well, I think it will be easier for me than for you, so please don't strain yourself!
Let's not be hatin on women with "mannish" faces. Regardless of whether those jawlines are a product of steroid use or not.
I can't help what I look like. I'm a tall, bulky (I'm not fat, I'm big-boned!) woman who just happens to be a little sensitive to what is attractive and acceptable for a female. I've been accused of being a transvestite, bull dyke and steroid abuser, all of which is not true.
So, my preference for extreme physiques, like the picture of the female bodybuilder posted above (is she Collette Guimond?) probably comes from my life experience of never falling into the "norm", in both my body and my mind. Yeah, I like Ronnie Coleman, too.
Be the best you can be. Healthy and fit don't look the same on all bodies. Of course our preference for what body type "looks" healthy and beautiful is different for all of us. We are entitled to personal preference, that is our right.
I don't know where I'm going with this, maybe just sayin' that mannish women need to be shown a little kindness once in a while, too.
1. FYI: I LOVE the woman's body that Bytsi posted (the one you call Amazon) and would love to have that physique. (I already know I never could but that woud be SOOOO badass) Okay maybe her waist is a bit thick but otherwise it works for me. I know I am slanted a bit differently than many of you, but I am cool with that and Leigh's article hit on this point exactly to me.
2. I appreciate your "Arnold" perspective Jane but the fact is that people have called me Amazon, stared rudely, pointed or otherwise have made shitty comments to me about how I currently look and how I fit in more with da boyz more than the women. I have read posts on here where women compare me (saying they don't want to be as muscled as me). In fact I am pretty sure there was a comment on this topic recently from one of the Summit threads. (Something about me being one of the boyz) Perhaps this was not intended so much about my looks but it is part of the big picture here. Just saying that this group is not excluded from the prejudice of too much muscle or manliness in a women. There is a general NON-acceptance in society of any woman who wants to do competitive bbing whether she do drugs or not as that takes it just one step beyond where even some of you guys seem to be comfy.
Just so I am clear on this. (and I appreciate that you all responded so kindly so far) I hold no malice for this and totally understand it. (Bytsi, I get what you meant in your comment and did not take offense. Yes it is extreme.) This topic is what it is. If you don't like that look, it is your personal opinion and you may voice it. I have my own opinions about what looks good and voice them as well. To me, it's all good. I have decided that I am going for as much muscle as I can amass (naturally for now) and see where it all goes. In order to do this, I have to take the comments and critism in stride and continue towards my goal. For the most part I do get nothing but support from you guys and I do love you for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytsi
Just to clarify... I was thinking of a pic more like this as an example of "too bulky" for the average woman to desire... not the ones Leigh picked!
Karla,
You are still a small, petite woman. You're what, 5'4", 5'5"? And you weigh somewhere in the 125-130# range right now? That's not amazon, sorry! You might not be long distance runner skinny/scrawny anymore and that is what your friends/acquaintances are reacting to. But you are in no way anywhere near the size of the lady that Bytsi posted!! (And you realize that if that is your goal, you WILL need to start juicing to get there, right?!)
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