The Fat Loss TroubleshootThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. This section is led by Leigh Peele, author of "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot," the ultimate fat loss manual. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
So I understand that in order to lose fat, you need a period of caloric deficit. And to build muscle you need a period caloric surplus. But further than this I have a few questions.
1) How long do these periods of surplus or deficit need to last?
--For example, if you cycle calories every other day (high/low) high being 500 over maintanence, and low being 500 under maintanence, wouldn't you theoretically lose about .5lbs of fat and build .5lbs of muscle in a week. In a month this would come to +2 lbs muscle, -2lbs fat.
--Or a different example. You do two weeks at +500 kcals, and then 2 weeks at -500 kcals. This would theoretically come to the same outcome after 1 month.
I know its all theory, but the reason I ask, is that I would like to maintain my current weight and lose some fat. I understand results may be slower, but I believe it will be easier, and possibly better in the long run.
Currently I am, 5'11", 195lbs and about 15% BF. My primary goal is to reduce my waist size from 34" to 32" while staying >190lbs.
Ive read Leigh's books, and am going through the audio walkthroughs at the moment. I have also read many of Lyle Mcdonald's books/articles, articles on t-nation, and "Better than steriods". All of these sources have inspired me to try to aim for body recomposition rather than cutting/bulking.
So here are some guidelines Im thinking of so far:
1) emphasis on protein (at least 1g/lb and more during low-cal/carb)
2) Nutrient timing -- (insulin spikes when beneficial, keeping insulin low when beneficial)
3) Supplementation with fish oil, creatine, and protein.
4) Training emphasizing heavier lifts (3-6rm mainly)
5) Control volume to allow for recovery, and progression.
6) High days will generally be higher carb, lower fat
7) Low days will be lower carb, higher fat/protein
And this is where im at a loss. The rest of my training plan really depends on my diet breakdown. Whether I do TBT sessions, or a push/pull/leg, or upper/lower split, and the frequency is going to depend on how often my refeeds are, and how the diet is layed out. Originally I wanted to avoid cardio all together, but have been rethinking this. Im thinking of 45-60 minutes of walking as my cardio. My weight training is going to be EDT style, so HIIT is out of the question.
So here are two possible methods of achieving my goals. Please critique or give other suggestions.
Option A (7 day cycle)
--------
diet
M - hi
T - low
W - hi
Th - low
F - hi
S - low
S - Mod
workouts
M - TBT
T - WALK
W - TBT
TH - WALK
F - TBT
S - WALK
S - OFF
OPTION B (5 day cycle)
----------
diet
Day 1-3 HI
Day 4-5 LOW
workouts
Day 1-3 PUSH/PULL/LEG
Day 4-5 WALK (OR REST)
Im not sure what your question is? I think both programs you laid out seem like they would work.
The idea behind cycling dieting, from what Ive read, is to diet at a caloric deficit without the hormonal and metabolic adapatations that occur as a result. The "refeeds" or carb ups are supposed to counter that. Zig zag dieting says that you lose on your deficit days, gain a little fat on your refeed days, but the overall trend should be downward in the long run.
Personally, to zig zag between a smaller deficit and going over maintanence would drive me crazy. When I am "dieting", I like to get it over with,, so what I am doing is something a little more strict. My low days are very low, and my high days are still below my maintanence calories. Refeeds only added intermittently only as needed.
I guess it depends on what your goals and timing are.
See below The Zig-Zag Approach In Action
To Increase Total bodyweight By Losing Fat And Gaining Muscle:
For 4 to 5 days each week (including your training days), add two calories per pound of lean bodyweight to your normal daily caloric intake. Spread these added calories among five meals per day. For example, a 170-pound person who is around 12% body fat should add approximately 300 calories per day to his or her diet. Over five meals, that equals a 60-calorie increase per meal on the average. Then, on the remaining 2 to 3 days each week (including off-days or light training days), reduce your caloric intake by two calories per pound of lean bodyweight. Reduce each of your five meals per day according to rules above. For example, a 170-pound person who is around 12% body fat should subtract approximately 300 calories per day from his or her diet; over five meals, that equals a 60-calorie decrease per meal on the average. Do not forget to adjust your calories upward monthly to reflect the new caloric needs of your increased muscle mass.
To Decrease Total bodyweight By Losing Fat And Gaining Muscle:
For 4 to 5 days each week (especially on off-days and light-training days), reduce your caloric intake by two calories per pound of lean bodyweight as described above. Then, on the remaining 2 to 3 days each week (including heavy-training days), add two calories per pound of lean bodyweight to your normal daily caloric intake. Do not forget to adjust your calories upward monthly to reflect the new caloric needs of your increased muscle mass.
To Stay The Same Total bodyweight But Lose Fat And Gain Muscle:
For 3 to 4 days each week, especially on off-days or light-training days, reduce your caloric intake, and increase your caloric intake for the other 3 or 4 days each week (especially on heavy training days) by two calories per pound of lean bodyweight as described above. Do not forget to adjust your calories upward monthly to reflect the new caloric needs of your increased muscle mass
Thanks for the reply getmovin, it gives me some ideas. I know its a pretty complex issue, but it all comes down to calories in vs. calories out for weight changes, and progress in the gym for body comp. My workouts now are very intense, and moderate volume, but can easily be adapted.
Basically here's what im doing:
A]
PR zone-1
Db floor press / rack pull (15:00) 6rm
PR zone - 2
Incline DB bench / hange power curl (10:00) 10rm
Assistance work (high reps 10-20 assistance, ex. face pull)
B]
PR zone - 1
Front squat / Pullup (15:00) 6rm
PR zone - 2
DB row / Tricep ext. (10:00) 10rm
Assistance work
Ive been doing this with a 1 on 1 off lately, but now that im getting to heavier weights in all the PR zones, its getting pretty hard. I may keep the volume high and go to a 1 on 2 off plan, or ditch the second PR zone in each workout and stay with 1 on 1 off. Either way, i'll follow some form of cycle/zig-zag diet, and my "off" days will include long walks for cardio/recovery, as well as foam rolling and stretching.
The only other option is to break the workouts down further, and go to more of a 3 on 2 off split, or 3 on 3 off.
Zig zagging works, but I think you'd do better with slightly longer periods of highs and lows.
M - Low
T - Low
W - Low - PM TBT - followed by higher eating
T - High - Off
F - High - Upper or Push
S - High - Lower or Pull
S - Mod - Off
The several days of lows aren't as important as the several days of highs. It takes food and rest to recover and grow, and following a workout day with less food is fine for fat loss, but not for muscle growth or recovery.
Kelly Baggett has a book on the subject, with many examples, including 14 day cycles, 10 day cycles, and weekly cycles.
There are many ways you can do it, depending on alot of variables as you activity levels, and your results. Also, I agree, if you are planning on zig zagging with a smaller deficit on low days and going over maintanence on high days, then its probably better to diet for 3-4 days in a row before a few days of high. Also, you need to be training on high days to limit the impact on fat storage during the refeeds.
For me personally, Id rather be in a deficit during the entire cycle, and just change it up and down based on my activity levels. This is also the direction I was given by the team at PN.
So for me it looks like this:
LOW: 10XBW
HIGH: 12-13XBW
Sundays-off-low
Mondays-high intensity cardio and full body weights-high
Tuesdays-TT-low
Wed-off-low
Thursdays-TT and high intensity cardio-high
Fridays-full body weights-low
Saturdays-high intensity cardio and TT or full body weights-high
I change things up depending on my activity levels. I know its not wise to diet on very low carbs and cals on very demanding workout days, for me personally, as it :
1.) makes me tired and stressed
2.) drives me to overeat
3.) ruins my stamina in the gym
There are many ways you can do it, depending on alot of variables as you activity levels, and your results. Also, I agree, if you are planning on zig zagging with a smaller deficit on low days and going over maintanence on high days, then its probably better to diet for 3-4 days in a row before a few days of high. Also, you need to be training on high days to limit the impact on fat storage during the refeeds.
For me personally, Id rather be in a deficit during the entire cycle, and just change it up and down based on my activity levels. This is also the direction I was given by the team at PN.
So for me it looks like this:
LOW: 10XBW
HIGH: 12-13XBW
Sundays-off-low
Mondays-high intensity cardio and full body weights-high
Tuesdays-TT-low
Wed-off-low
Thursdays-TT and high intensity cardio-high
Fridays-full body weights-low
Saturdays-high intensity cardio and TT or full body weights-high
I change things up depending on my activity levels. I know its not wise to diet on very low carbs and cals on very demanding workout days, for me personally, as it :
1.) makes me tired and stressed
2.) drives me to overeat
3.) ruins my stamina in the gym
Highs don't look high enough, what is the point? Too much aggression in the cardio too, save that for the lifting!
I think OPT Remix is a great recomp program. It is cycling with lifting. I didn't lose one bit of muscle, even gained on that one coming out of a lean bulk.
Highs don't look high enough, what is the point? Too much aggression in the cardio too, save that for the lifting!
I think OPT Remix is a great recomp program. It is cycling with lifting. I didn't lose one bit of muscle, even gained on that one coming out of a lean bulk.
So I understand that in order to lose fat, you need a period of caloric deficit. And to build muscle you need a period caloric surplus. But further than this I have a few questions.
1) How long do these periods of surplus or deficit need to last?
--For example, if you cycle calories every other day (high/low) high being 500 over maintanence, and low being 500 under maintanence, wouldn't you theoretically lose about .5lbs of fat and build .5lbs of muscle in a week. In a month this would come to +2 lbs muscle, -2lbs fat.
--Or a different example. You do two weeks at +500 kcals, and then 2 weeks at -500 kcals. This would theoretically come to the same outcome after 1 month.
I know its all theory, but the reason I ask, is that I would like to maintain my current weight and lose some fat. I understand results may be slower, but I believe it will be easier, and possibly better in the long run.
Currently I am, 5'11", 195lbs and about 15% BF. My primary goal is to reduce my waist size from 34" to 32" while staying >190lbs.
Ive read Leigh's books, and am going through the audio walkthroughs at the moment. I have also read many of Lyle Mcdonald's books/articles, articles on t-nation, and "Better than steriods". All of these sources have inspired me to try to aim for body recomposition rather than cutting/bulking.
So here are some guidelines Im thinking of so far:
1) emphasis on protein (at least 1g/lb and more during low-cal/carb)
2) Nutrient timing -- (insulin spikes when beneficial, keeping insulin low when beneficial)
3) Supplementation with fish oil, creatine, and protein.
4) Training emphasizing heavier lifts (3-6rm mainly)
5) Control volume to allow for recovery, and progression.
6) High days will generally be higher carb, lower fat
7) Low days will be lower carb, higher fat/protein
And this is where im at a loss. The rest of my training plan really depends on my diet breakdown. Whether I do TBT sessions, or a push/pull/leg, or upper/lower split, and the frequency is going to depend on how often my refeeds are, and how the diet is layed out. Originally I wanted to avoid cardio all together, but have been rethinking this. Im thinking of 45-60 minutes of walking as my cardio. My weight training is going to be EDT style, so HIIT is out of the question.
So here are two possible methods of achieving my goals. Please critique or give other suggestions.
Option A (7 day cycle)
--------
OPTION B (5 day cycle)
----------
diet
Day 1-3 HI
Day 4-5 LOW
workouts
Day 1-3 PUSH/PULL/LEG
Day 4-5 WALK (OR REST)
Thanks in advance for any and all advice.
Honestly it looks pretty good. The only things I would change up is touching on what LD said and make the chunk of hi/low of more a span if fat loss is still needed on a 10+ pound level.
So for example it could look like
diet
M - low
T - low
W - low
Th -hi
F - hi
S - low
S - Mod
workouts
Highs/mod will be lifting days/lows will be walks/general cardio.
I just checked out UD2. It seems rather logical,but unfortunately, a person is restricted to his workout recommendations. For someone like myself, who also teaches classes during the week, it wouldnt be ideal.
Cyclical dieting and body recomp?
Linear Mode
