Question about evaluating results

[dianas]

The last two months I've been diligent regarding tracking my food intake and also have Gowearfit so have a basic idea of my activity and also an estimated burn from the GWF. Which by the way almost perfectly matches the estimate I got from Leigh's activity quiz.

Anyway I am losing weight but am so far about 5 lbs behind the expected weight loss taken from the daily deficits calculated. (ie I've lost 7.5 lbs taking highest and lowest weights past two months and projected is a hair under 12 lbs.) I'm happy I'm losing weight but would like to see at least a pound a week which should be quite doable at my weight (female 250 lbs, 5' 4").

So should I just assume that the GWF is overestimating my burn and drop my calories a little more? How do you decide whether to push more vs it's time to take a break coz things are slowing down? Or just to chill out and be happy with current progress even if it is a little behind what's expected.

[Leigh P.]

The short and likely answer is at the weight you are and with the intake of food you are having (if not shooting for an extreme deficit) you are going to store more water on average. Meaning you might not be as behind as you think.

The GW could also be off some as well, this certainly happens.

Throw out some details of what you are doing diet and training wise and we can see if there is a more detailed reasoning.

[dianas]

I was aiming for 1500 to 1700 calories for an average intake and while the day to day intake may vary my averages are spot on. January average intake was 1646 and February's average was 1712. Your activity quiz puts my maintenance between 2300 and 2500 and GWF monthly average burn was 2504 in January and 2398 for February. Deficit has been averaging about 700 to 800.

Macros are for the most part pretty balanced. I'm still not totally used to higher protein intake so typically manage somewhere around 80 to 100 grams of protein daily, 100 to 150 grams of carbs, 50 to 60 grams of fat and the rest whatever. I'm flexible regarding what and when I eat so daily intake may vary some but as long as it evens out over a few days I've been ok with that and it allows some flexibility and give and take meeting family wants and needs. I've been very meticulous about logging and weighing what I do eat though not guessing. I've had more low blood sugars this month than usual some of them prolonged so food intake on some days this past month has been higher than usual.

As far as activity goes for the most part pretty sedentary. Part time desk job activity at home varies, daily steps somewhere around 5,000 to 7,500. That's about what my ankle will tolerate right now after about 10,000 steps I'm limping for a few days afterwards and activity drops off considerably. Jan and Feb I used the OPT weight training but for the most part 3 days a week instead of 4 and 3 to 4 days/sessions of low impact cardio or intervals (not HIIT) about 45 minutes or so. I would say at moderate intensity for the most part. Usually I'd alternate between kickboxing or the elliptical, occasionally step aerobics or if my ankle bothered me stationary bike. I try to take 2 rest days a week and take longer warmup/cooldown include stretching etc but not always foam rolling. I did miss some workouts in February here and there. My goal/reason for exercising is for general health and to help with diabetes not just what burns the most calories. Also for the most part I'd say the GWF info seems to reflect what I've done in a day very well.

There does appear to be some water retention going on though although I don't generally get wild swings in weight and I don't think it's increased much recently.

I did just get lab work done and TSH, T4, and T3 are all normal. Cholesterol is awesome. The only potential problem is that after stopping birth control 1 year ago my periods haven't started back up yet. Last summer hormones were checked and at that point I wasn't in menopause so it should have resumed at some point here. I haven't had any of the typical hormonal symptoms at all actually other than occasional acne. I haven't been back to Dr. for a followup regarding the lack of periods yet.

So that's it in a long nutshell. There's pictures in my log also if that makes a difference.

Thanks much. It's great that you're willing to take a look at this.

[Leigh P.]

First off thanks for the detail outline, it helps.

Jan and Feb I used the OPT weight training but for the most part 3 days a week instead of 4 and 3 to 4 days/sessions of low impact cardio or intervals (not HIIT) about 45 minutes or so. I would say at moderate intensity for the most part. Usually I'd alternate between kickboxing or the elliptical, occasionally step aerobics or if my ankle bothered me stationary bike. I try to take 2 rest days a week and take longer warmup/cooldown include stretching etc but not always foam rolling. I did miss some workouts in February here and there. My goal/reason for exercising is for general health and to help with diabetes not just what burns the most calories. Also for the most part I'd say the GWF info seems to reflect what I've done in a day very well.

I know you mentioned it before but can you remind me what is wrong with your ankle specifically?

There does appear to be some water retention going on though although I don't generally get wild swings in weight and I don't think it's increased much recently.

I did just get lab work done and TSH, T4, and T3 are all normal. Cholesterol is awesome. The only potential problem is that after stopping birth control 1 year ago my periods haven't started back up yet. Last summer hormones were checked and at that point I wasn't in menopause so it should have resumed at some point here. I haven't had any of the typical hormonal symptoms at all actually other than occasional acne. I haven't been back to Dr. for a followup regarding the lack of periods yet.

Alright based on what you have put, here is my assumption and breakdown of the situation.

1-The first thing that everyone needs to remember is everything is best guess. The GW, how many calories a item of food has, etc. It is all best guess. If lucky 1600 is close to 1600 even if being exact as you can be you have to ask, where they when measuring?

2-You deficit and carb intake are not low enough to give the water drops. If you are looking at a pound of loss a week, and you are actually in a deficit of a pound, you aren't likely to see it for 3-4 weeks after the intial loss of weight. If larger in size, this is increased.

3-Your period/hormonal issues are likely estrogen driven, this always leads to holding more water in general.

In short, your decifit mixed with hormonal issues are likely cloaking your fat loss efforts. There is also a chance that calculations could be off in a 100 direction in either food and GW calculation. These things are not exact, nor should ever be used at such. Best guess, good trackers for change, but not exact science.

If possible, if you can take it, I would increase your protein, please work on that and get it to at least 130-150 right now. Increase fat, it might help with the hormonal aspect. I am curious did you do low fat before/high carb?

Lastly, I would like to hear about your ankle, how you are healing? What is wrong there?

If you want to increase deficit to pick up the pace I think you would be fine to do so, but not without increase protein intake as well, and getting the ankle situation under control best possible.

[dianas]

Originally Posted by Leigh P.

In short, your decifit mixed with hormonal issues are likely cloaking your fat loss efforts. There is also a chance that calculations could be off in a 100 direction in either food and GW calculation. These things are not exact, nor should ever be used at such. Best guess, good trackers for change, but not exact science.

If possible, if you can take it, I would increase your protein, please work on that and get it to at least 130-150 right now. Increase fat, it might help with the hormonal aspect. I am curious did you do low fat before/high carb?

Lastly, I would like to hear about your ankle, how you are healing? What is wrong there?

If you want to increase deficit to pick up the pace I think you would be fine to do so, but not without increase protein intake as well, and getting the ankle situation under control best possible.

Thanks for your reply that all helps. I really wasn't expecting any of this to be exact sorry didn't mean to give that impression but I'm glad you mentioned it as it's a common misunderstanding. I do like having data even if it is only ballpark and I think trends and patterns are helpful.

Are you finding the Bodybugg and GWF really to be within about 100 calories though overall? That's better than I expected. If so that's great.

The water stuff is interesting but I guess I was thinking we're talking 2 or 3 lbs not necessarily larger numbers. I do have one question though can a deficit cause the overall retention to increase over time? In other words am I probably holding more now than say I was in December when I wasn't really trying?

Regarding the ankle that's a long story but I have post traumatic arthritis and not a lot of joint left. If it was my knee or hip I'd have had a new one by now. I had a bad fall in my 20's that resulted in multiple fractures of my R ankle. I also have congenitally short heel cords which up until recently they couldn't do anything about. I think my range of motion for the R for many years was about -10 degrees and that meant I had to rotate my foot sideways to walk and pretty much had a permanent limp for many years. Plus it put a big strain on other tendons in my foot and ankle and my left leg did most of the work to compensate. And if all that isn't enough lastly about 4 years ago I had problems when the old surgical screws came loose and tore things up some more. That's when I found out they now had a surgery for the achilles and so while they retrieved the screws I also had the achilles lengthened. That has helped tremendously. After a bear of a recovery period (those loose screws really messed things up) I also did several months of rehab trying to figure out how to walk with a foot that wasn't crooked anymore and also to build up everything that was healthy to compensate for what is permanently damaged. So my R leg is actually stronger than my L leg now but it's still about 2 inches smaller.

The tendons and whatnot are a whole lot better and rarely give me problems or pain I think it's more the arthritis and that stays low grade up to a point then it gets worse. As far as the arthritis goes I don't want a fusion and so the idea is to hope to get as many years as possible out of it and pray for new technology. It's been a while since I had synvisc I might ask for some more of that it seemed to help a bit. I also don't like taking too many pain meds either although I will if need be. It's a catch 22 because being more active will help with weight loss which will ultimately help the joint.

Lastly that's a lot of protein but will give it a go. Oh and I was following the American Diabetes Association and American Heart Association guidelines so yeah more low fat. I didn't really consider the carbs to be high more like 200 to 250 grams spread out throughout the day.

Thanks again.

[UConnJulie]

Diana, not sure if I mentioned this before, but water exercise tends to be really great for arthritic joints. If you can find a warm water therapeutic pool around, most of them have a max depth of 4 feet or so and are kept at 92 degrees which is great for keeping arthritic joints warm. The one where I work offers all sorts of water aerobic type classes and has helped many of my clients with arthritis (more commonly hip or knee). Worth a try at least ...

[dianas]

Thanks Julie,

There's a couple of places near me that have pools but the hours and classes are limited so for the number of times I could use it buying a stationary bike actually has been a better choice for now. I used to really like water aerobics though so I keep an eye on the pool schedule.

Thanks.
Diana

[Leigh P.]

[quote]

Originally Posted by dianas

Thanks for your reply that all helps. I really wasn't expecting any of this to be exact sorry didn't mean to give that impression but I'm glad you mentioned it as it's a common misunderstanding. I do like having data even if it is only ballpark and I think trends and patterns are helpful.

Are you finding the Bodybugg and GWF really to be within about 100 calories though overall? That's better than I expected. If so that's great.

At this time I will say that with myself and the type of food logging that I do, I would say it lands in a 100-200 caloric range safely. That is with myself.

The water stuff is interesting but I guess I was thinking we're talking 2 or 3 lbs not necessarily larger numbers. I do have one question though can a deficit cause the overall retention to increase over time? In other words am I probably holding more now than say I was in December when I wasn't really trying?

You have to remember that when you lose fat you literally leave holes open, something has to fill them, and the length of times that does this can vary. I did a test with women and the long term effects of body wraps after a period of weight loss. To induce a whoosh, and I wont lie, it seemed to have worked fantastically to drain some of the excess subcutaneous water after an aggressive fat loss phase. The water did not return even after excess caloric refeeds. Meaning no carb avoidance or decrease of calories occurred and they were wearing bodybugg systems and logging calories. It was interesting to say the least.

I am hesitant to bring it up because of the amount of people who will mistake what I am saying. So it should be strongly noted that this was AFTER an aggressive fat loss phase with subjects who were done or at least on a long term break from contining fat loss.

What does this prove? Nothing we didn't already know but that you can store for extended periods of time water subcutanously after fat loss. The amount of time it takes for a whoosh to occur naturally just varies. Its just a method of manipulating it and that could even not be a good thing (messing with a homostasis of electrolytes), but instresting none the less.

Regarding the ankle that's a long story but I have post traumatic arthritis and not a lot of joint left. If it was my knee or hip I'd have had a new one by now. I had a bad fall in my 20's that resulted in multiple fractures of my R ankle. I also have congenitally short heel cords which up until recently they couldn't do anything about. I think my range of motion for the R for many years was about -10 degrees and that meant I had to rotate my foot sideways to walk and pretty much had a permanent limp for many years. Plus it put a big strain on other tendons in my foot and ankle and my left leg did most of the work to compensate. And if all that isn't enough lastly about 4 years ago I had problems when the old surgical screws came loose and tore things up some more. That's when I found out they now had a surgery for the achilles and so while they retrieved the screws I also had the achilles lengthened. That has helped tremendously. After a bear of a recovery period (those loose screws really messed things up) I also did several months of rehab trying to figure out how to walk with a foot that wasn't crooked anymore and also to build up everything that was healthy to compensate for what is permanently damaged. So my R leg is actually stronger than my L leg now but it's still about 2 inches smaller.

The tendons and whatnot are a whole lot better and rarely give me problems or pain I think it's more the arthritis and that stays low grade up to a point then it gets worse. As far as the arthritis goes I don't want a fusion and so the idea is to hope to get as many years as possible out of it and pray for new technology. It's been a while since I had synvisc I might ask for some more of that it seemed to help a bit. I also don't like taking too many pain meds either although I will if need be. It's a catch 22 because being more active will help with weight loss which will ultimately help the joint.

I was just curious what the issue was and how/what kind of recovery you were dealing with. I highly suggest following julies advice.

Lastly that's a lot of protein but will give it a go. Oh and I was following the American Diabetes Association and American Heart Association guidelines so yeah more low fat. I didn't really consider the carbs to be high more like 200 to 250 grams spread out throughout the day.

In general higher fat and protein has shown to lean more towards helping your types of conditions. If possible slowly increase fat and protein, decrease carbs a little, and see how that makes you feel.