The Fat Loss TroubleshootThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. This section is led by Leigh Peele, author of "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot," the ultimate fat loss manual. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
Let's say someone starts a weightloss program, and does everything right. Right amount of cals in vs cals out, and lets say that the excercise program is optimal. Lets also say that this person has a lot of weight to lose, more than 50lbs.
Why does it take certain people longer (weeks and maybe even months) to start to see weight loss on the scale and others start losing right away, at a steady rate. Is it hormones, is it due to body type, is it impossible and truly the program isn't followed correctly.
Well, firstly there's lots of variables that mean "right" might not be. It tends to be really hard to know what maintenance level is or how much your activity helps you increase your expenditure. The formulas are never spot on, the caloric counting of food is never spot on, and our burn counting is never spot on. So if someone had all that off just a bit in the same direction, that could be significant.
And then, yes, it would be highly individual. Even beyond hormones and whatnot, simply how much someone fidgets, what their amount of rest is like, how much they move when they sleep. Getting enough sleep. Getting quality sleep. How food affects them (carb tolerances, for instance). Mental/emotional stress.
Some will depend on what their diet was like before they changed their eating habits. When I first lost weight I think I lost about 25 pounds in the first month. However, my eating habits were horrible before. This time when I started losing weight I lost 9 pounds in the first month. Yet, appreciably, I did nothing different. There was a slight difference in starting weights, but I probably ate around the same range of calories, had not incorporated exercise yet. My eating habits were much better before I started though. I was eating more of the right things, just too much of them.
I agree with you both Anne & Aoife, but I still think there is more to it.
As an example, without fail everytime I can remember that I've started with a fatloss or exercise program, it takes a minimum of 2 months before I see a result, any result. I know myself pretty well, and have dieted and excercised on and off for many years. So the variables you speak of would always pretty much be the same for me I would think. My NEAT, my eating habits, exercise habits etc. But I always see a result 3 months down the road. So I keep thinking there is more to it than this.
And this quetion is not really geared towards me, because I do know myself, and I can live with this.
Both my sisters are very overweight, they've both tried diets and seem to be in the same situation as me. They get totally frustrated and give up. I've seen them do this several times. So basically I'm just trying to see if there is another factor that could be taken into consideration and maybe give them a bit of info.
When you have 50+lbs to lose, it can be disheartening to try for weeks on end and not see the scale budge, not even 1lb. They think they will never be able to lose it, and I want to help.
And I'm pigheaded enough from my past experience to think there is a missing clue somewhere...I have yet to figure it out even for myself.
Both my sisters are very overweight, they've both tried diets and seem to be in the same situation as me. They get totally frustrated and give up. I've seen them do this several times. So basically I'm just trying to see if there is another factor that could be taken into consideration and maybe give them a bit of info.
Some thoughts from years ago, when I tried (very unsuccessfully to lose weight). It's not likely all apply, but some may.
- fad diets don't work - anything that doesn't deal with a good mix of foods is a waste of time. You know the grapefruit diet, the cabbage soup diet, etc. I don't think I did any of these, but probably bought into a couple of these types. You get so bored with what you're supposed to eat that within a couple of weeks (maybe even days) you can't stand it.
- extremely low carb diets - althought I think the basis of South Beach is probably a good one, what often happens is a major loss the first week, little to nothing the second week, and a slight gain after that. I think it gets people's hopes up. I mean 5 lbs the first week... then start dividing 50 by 5 and get excited. No diet plan can live up to that.
- anything too restrictive - if there's one thing that's seems to be true is that once someone says you can't have X, that's all you want.
- setting calorie levels too low - this one works for some people, not for others
My overall thoughts:
Calorie counting works. It allows you to eat a wide range of foods, and if you really want something you can work it in. Eventually you start thinking about it as a budget. Is (whatever) worth 500 calories to you? If it is, you work it in. If it's not, you don't.
I'd suggest that they start calorie counting now. Don't adjust their eating habits, but get used to weighing/measuring, and get familiar with the program. Do that for at least 2 weeks, a month would be better. Everything they consume must go into the software (or spreadsheet). Take a starting weight and an ending weight. If they've maintained on that level this should help you pick a starting calorie count. There are other ways of picking a starting level, but the more I think about it, I think this might be a better choice when you have a lot to lose. I used to think I had a slow metabolism. It turns out that I don't appear to. I seem to lose weight more consistently when I eat more (ie. keep my deficit around 1000 cals a day). If it gets greater than that for whatever reason I don't lose as well.
Depending on physical fitness they can either just start with calorie counting for a while, then add exercising. Getting the food part down cold is (in my opinion) the most important part of the equation. I tend to be a little compulsive on the food side - ie. I don't go to bed without the next day's food being planned. I find it helps with hunger during the day. I know what I'll be having and I can pull it ahead / push it back a little based on how I'm feeling.
Oh, I didn't mention water - get more consistent with that. Low / high intake days can truly mess with your weight. I suspect it's worse when you carry more weight.
I agree with everybody's comments. Being someone who for the most part has been unsuccessful in managing my weight and can stall for a long time I have a few observations.
In my opinion it really doesn't matter what factors influence your ability to lose weight--ie let's just say there is something outside of your control that influences your speed and ease of weight loss it really doesn't matter in the end. You still have to hit a deficit in order to lose weight. All you can do is work with what you can change or have control over (ie food and exercise) and go from there. I truly believe this is harder to do for some than others and may take more effort, be slower but believe it can eventually be done.
Some people may need to pay more attention to every little detail in order to get the job done. If I don't weigh and log my food I won't hit my deficit I end up eating more than I think I have. Logging also really helps me to keep track of my exercise. I'm really good at maintenance that's easy for me but I do have to pay attention in order to hit a deficit consistently. At first this was a total pain in the butt as there is nothing I detest more than logging. But it gets the job done even if I do end up on the slow boat to China. And it gets easier the more you do it.
Something that helps me too is to find a path that ends up being more of a lifestyle change rather than a diet. When you have 100 lbs to lose it's not going to happen overnight and so approaching this in a sustainable fashion is very important. For me that includes having an occasional glass of wine, or candy, or pizza, or a greasy cheeseburger, and eating out once in a while etc. I'm learning how to include those foods now and then and keep calories level at the same time. This type of approach typically also means slower progress. Kind of like the tortoise and the hare sort of thing. But I think it works better when you have a lot to lose. I might occasionally do something more drastic short term to shake things up a bit or break a stall.
I also tend to set my goals based on behaviors rather than results. Don't get me wrong I want the results and they may be a secondary goal but in the long run I can't predict how much weight I'll lose and when. I can go along for weeks or months with seemingly nothing happening and then all of a sudden I'm down 5 lbs. So I focus more on things like I logged for x # of days, I increased my protein, or included more fruit etc. I hit my calories, I did x amount of exercise. This is something you can measure daily. It's also immediate feedback that you're making healthier and better choices and have accomplished a lot even if the scale doesn't reflect that this week or month. These are also the type of things that need to continue happening after you've hit your results wanted it doesn't all just stop once you hit your goal weight or body fat percentage or looks. By focusing more on the behaviors that put the weight on in the first place I feel I'm more likely to keep off any weight I do lose.
Anyway I know that doesn't answer your question about why but hopefully there are some suggestions on how to deal with things in the long haul.
I also think this is an area where your actions and sticking with it may help your sisters. Perhaps you can show them by sticking with it you eventually get the weight loss you want. This is one area where there usually is no quick and easy fix. And that's a reality your sisters may not want to deal with right now.
anne and diana have said some really wonderful things, and they resonate with what I finally learned, but it took me 9 years of lots of trial and error.
I am 75 pounds down from my highest, and, at some point, I had to learn that uberrestriction doesn't work. making my behaviors dependent on scale change doesn't work. understanding that my behavior changes were helping my health and helping me feel better regardless of the scale change helped a lot. learning to love exercise in a larger body helped. redefining my idea of "fun" helped a lot. "fun" used to be a 6 course thai meal with a large cookie dough blizzard for dessert. "fun" is now defined by lots of things, most recently kayaking the black canyon river with several miles of uphill climbing, an amazing dinner at voodoo steakhouse at the top of the RIO casino. enjoyed lots of food and cocktails, however, nowadays stuffing myself to the brim doesn't feel normal. stopping when I am comfortably full feels normal, and I actually know what that is now.
when I looked at very lean people when I was heavier, I used to think that they lived in a world of restriction all of the time. and some of them might. in fact, one local triathlete I know does for sure. but plenty of them live like I live now. most days are filled with yummy, delicious, healthy food, peppered with occasional times of food that isn't so healthy.
my transformation happened very very gradually--I don't think it has to take 9.5 years to lose 75 pounds, but that is how it happened for me. I actually have a weight graph of the entire process. very interesting stuff.
Thank you all for your answers. Fengshway, it took me about 6 yrs to lose a total of 100lbs. Trail & error for me to. I could be a year sometimes with nothin happening, and I would coast for a while.
Anyway, what you guys say all makes sense. It's funny, when I was overweight my sisters and I would talk about this all the time (weightloss I mean). Now that I have lost the weight, it's become difficult to discuss. There is a strain between us.
I truly beleive you need to be ''ready'' emotionally and well as physically to lose weight. It's a journey of sorts I think.
I would so much like to help them out, but I don't want to give off a know-it-all attitude, so I don't bring it up unless they do. Sometimes I get the impression they think I'm holding on to a secret I won't share with them....isn't that weird. Anyway, I'm sure you know how volotile emotions can be in families.
Thank you all for your answers. Fengshway, it took me about 6 yrs to lose a total of 100lbs. Trail & error for me to. I could be a year sometimes with nothin happening, and I would coast for a while.
Anyway, what you guys say all makes sense. It's funny, when I was overweight my sisters and I would talk about this all the time (weightloss I mean). Now that I have lost the weight, it's become difficult to discuss. There is a strain between us.
I truly beleive you need to be ''ready'' emotionally and well as physically to lose weight. It's a journey of sorts I think.
I would so much like to help them out, but I don't want to give off a know-it-all attitude, so I don't bring it up unless they do. Sometimes I get the impression they think I'm holding on to a secret I won't share with them....isn't that weird. Anyway, I'm sure you know how volotile emotions can be in families.
Congratulations on your weight loss. I can see where it could be a strain on your relationships. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Your results tell the story now anyway and if your sisters want to know more about how you did it they'll ask. I think it's normal for people to want a magic quick fix. Eat less move more is simple in theory but oh so hard in actual application day after day.
redefining my idea of "fun" helped a lot. "fun" used to be a 6 course thai meal with a large cookie dough blizzard for dessert. "fun" is now defined by lots of things, most recently kayaking the black canyon river with several miles of uphill climbing, an amazing dinner at voodoo steakhouse at the top of the RIO casino. enjoyed lots of food and cocktails, however, nowadays stuffing myself to the brim doesn't feel normal. stopping when I am comfortably full feels normal, and I actually know what that is now.
I think I'm still on that path of redefining "fun." My bike has definitely made it onto the fun list alongside more sedentary things like reading and a movie with a friend. But it took some really un-fun bike rides to get it there. And if I decide to do longer rides, that will take another un-fun push before it morphs back into "fun."
I'm hoping (well more than hoping, planning) to slowly explore more active things and add in the ones I think I could come to enjoy.
As for food, learning where the full/hungry line is is an ongoing process and I don't think I'm all the way there yet. Actually, it's kind of surprising to me how long learning that is taking me. (Though I know a lot more about it than I did a year ago.)
If I'm honest though, there's something I miss about that stuffed-to-the-gills-after-Thanksgiving feeling. Maybe that will fade with time. I don't know.
I think a bunch of this stuff isn't a secret you can share because it's not like the answer to a test question; it's a gradual internal discovery process.
__________________
"Time and patience are the 2 elements that most people don't include in their plans."
-Alan Aragon
"The scale simply tells you how much the earth loves you on a particular day."
-Ogedei (Keith)
I really like the idea of "redefining fun." Could that be the key to a true lifestyle change? I have gradually been adding more outdoor activities, some "sports" and some just plain outdoor stuff, but I think it's way helpful in giving me a reason for keeping on my weight-loss/healthy living/exercise journey.
cloveapple, I really agree with the gradual internal process concept. sometimes you pick up clues from other successful losers and maintainers that resonate with you and work, and other things don't.
right on celestial mom!!! here is another idea of fun-i just love that I have built my fitness up to a level where just any old time I can jump into a sprint triathlon with my friends and finish strong! I actually did that in may. she called me on a wednesday, we raced on saturday. we didn't break any speed records, but we talked and laughed the whole way and had a total blast. but the state I am in right now required some unfun times, like learning how to freestyle swim. but once the skill was built, swimming is one of those amazingly fun things that I do anytime I want. in fact, during said vegas trip, the guide and I were the only ones brave enough to dive into the brisk river for a cold dip! when he proposed the idea, it sounded like fun to me, a challenge! the sedentary me would have preferred to be curled up near a fire with a book. now I still do enjoy that on occasion, but the majority of my free time is now spent doing things that support my goals.
oh, and diana, I agree. I shudder sometimes when I hear people who have never had a weight problem say to me DUH, you figured it out, eat less move more. well, yeah, true, but they have no clue how many steps it took for me to do that, and how much trial and error and practice. for some people, maybe fat loss is easy and intuitive. for some people, maybe they just have a knack for learning these skills the first time and didn't have to fall down as much as I did.
for me, fat loss and fitness improvement took an assload of focus, concentration, practice, failures, books, seminars, forums, friends, therapy, you get the idea.
It's funny, when I was overweight my sisters and I would talk about this all the time (weightloss I mean). Now that I have lost the weight, it's become difficult to discuss. There is a strain between us.
I'm finding this to be true with all of my sisters-in-law who are very overweight. I feel like it's an overweight club and I'm no longer in it sometimes. The other day one of my husband's cousins was complimenting me and asking what I had been doing, and one of the Overweight Club members, who had been chatting with us, stared at me pointedly and then walked off. It's happened a number of times. I feel as if I've actually lost friends by getting in shape.
On the question of weight loss, though, I think that very out-of-shape people and people who have illnesses have a different set of issues to address. I was ill for years with chronic liver disease, and when I was finally cured, my body just did not respond to dieting the same way it does now. I think our bodies are such complex systems that if, for instance, a person is totally sedentary the system does not function and it takes a long time to start to respond normally. It's taken me two years to get to the point that calorie restriction doesn't mean that I will go nuts and eat everything in sight. Maybe it was nutritional deficiencies, who knows, but now when I cut calories I see a response on the scale, whereas before it just didn't happen the same way. I would be fascinated to find out more about how this works.
oh, and prof, congrats on your amazing journey!! way to go!!
Thanks Fengshway, I've watched your progress, you are doing an amazing job!!!!
I love your attitude about weight loss and agree with everything you post. You really get the emotional part of losing weight, which I think was a HUUUUGE part of the battle for me.
thanks annie! I posted some true befores in my log. It has been quite the wild ride! Just finished an awesome 8.5 mile run and then walked 3 miles back to the hotel - I just love sightseeing in a new city this way.
Recovery meal at the hotel restaurant. The Belgian waffle was great, but the run was even better!
Why????
Linear Mode
