The Fat Loss TroubleshootThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. This section is led by Leigh Peele, author of "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot," the ultimate fat loss manual. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
Leigh, I was listening to the Fat Loss Rapidfire webcast today (which was great, BTW) and was struck by your response to the question regarding how long to wait to see results before tweaking diet. I've always heard 4 weeks for women, and when you said 4-6 weeks for women who have a less weight to lose, I had a real "DUH" moment. It seems obvious but had never occurred to me.
Would you mind elaborating (either here and/or in a future blog post) regarding any special difficulties, diet tips, etc. you would have for those with less weight to lose?
ETA: Also, are there any differences between someone who has dieted down to the last 10 pounds vs. someone who is just carrying an extra 10 pounds?:
Hey! I had EXACTLY the same thought too!!! I'm doing a program with Martin Berkhan right now and was a bit discouraged that after 4 weeks I haven't seen more change.
So Martin basically said what Leigh confirmed in her podcast:
Be patient - it takes time at this level, and especially for women fat loss does not occur in a linear fashion. We can go weeks without seeming to lose a pound then all of a sudden drop 5. It goes without saying, too, that when you're already quite lean and thisclose to "being there" your body's not that thrilled about surrending those last few pounds. Especially as women, our bodies love to protect us by hanging on to it - why, it's grown attached, not just literally, to the last bit of muffin top and it's going to take a planetary alignment, poodles jumping through rings of fire, and a whole lot of effort, consistency, and patience to get the job done. But it can happen.
So hang in there! BELIEVE then keep plugging away!! We're doin' it!! :-)
Thanks for starting this thread!
__________________ Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
Thanks for the post. I've read some of Martin's stuff WRT IF and find the idea really interesting, although not really suited to me. How do you like working with him?
I LOVE that comment about poodles jumping through rings of fire!
Would you mind elaborating (either here and/or in a future blog post) regarding any special difficulties, diet tips, etc. you would have for those with less weight to lose?
Hello, I thought I might throw my two cents in here - speaking from the dieting down perspective. When I reached the point of "the last 10 pounds" that was the hardest loss for me. I found that since I had been dieting for a while, I had to really focus more, and not let myself slip because I felt deprived, tired, etc.
I found that the more honest I was with myself, being diligent in my weighing of foods, no bites here and there, and also focusing on really pushing myself during my workouts and getting in NEAT - the faster the lbs came off. On the weeks where I slipped a little, maybe didn't push as hard in my workouts, or had a night out where I splurged, etc...those were the weeks where the losses were less visible. Sounds obvious, but for me personally, it was just a matter of finding that I really had to be focused and on par even though I felt like I had been dieting "forever" and "deserved" breaks here and there.
I think once you get to this point, its all mental. Staying focused is the key to that last bit of jiggle, and getting DONE and on to maintenance. So, long story short (ha), 4-6 weeks may give you the time to test your boundaries (because we all do), find out what works, realize what you've got to do, and get into your groove!
I totally agree with these ladies. The last 10 lbs are very hard. Mainly because:
1.) its extremely slow
2.) you are busting your ass
3.) you have to be meticulous about your calories
I think you have to manipulate yourself to eating at a deficit and still feel comfortable and for each of us, its a different technique.
Personally for me, the more meals I eat, the more likely I fail at the last 10 lbs. I find that I need to semi-fast during the day to keep my calories down. I have applied the fasting technique (basically eat very little until 12pm), and Ive already dropped a few pounds. I agree all that nibbling and eating all day long makes me want to eat more. Also, find out what time you tend to cheat and make that your biggest meal time. For example, for me, I tend to cheat at night. So I save a big chunk of my calories for the nightime, and Im less likely to binge. I find I can tolerate being hungry during the morning hours, and but at night, its intolerable.
Sorry for hijacking, just throwing out some ideas........
Personally for me, the more meals I eat, the more likely I fail at the last 10 lbs. I find that I need to semi-fast during the day to keep my calories down. I have applied the fasting technique (basically eat very little until 12pm), and Ive already dropped a few pounds. I agree all that nibbling and eating all day long makes me want to eat more. Also, find out what time you tend to cheat and make that your biggest meal time. For example, for me, I tend to cheat at night. So I save a big chunk of my calories for the nightime, and Im less likely to binge. I find I can tolerate being hungry during the morning hours, and but at night, its intolerable.
Interesting... I'm at my last 10# (although I'm not sure I'll actually stop there, but for now I have 6# to my original goal). Anyway - I find that I do better if I eat much as you've described - I am hungrier (and more likely to give in) at night, so I save most of my calories for evening. My overall macros are where I want, as are my overall calories, but I eat approximately half my calories between dinner and bedtime... so far it's not perfect but it's working better than "6 small meals a day" for me and I can comply better...
I also log my calories from dinner through the next afternoon (instead of breakfast through bedtime). That way, if I do majorly indulge in the evening, I can make up for it a bit during the next day (smaller lunch, for example). I'm MUCH better at eating a small lunch and waiting til dinner than I am at staying on plan when I'm out of calories by 7pm and my stomach's still growling!
I also log my calories from dinner through the next afternoon (instead of breakfast through bedtime). That way, if I do majorly indulge in the evening, I can make up for it a bit during the next day (smaller lunch, for example). I'm MUCH better at eating a small lunch and waiting til dinner than I am at staying on plan when I'm out of calories by 7pm and my stomach's still growling!
Interesting... I'm at my last 10# (although I'm not sure I'll actually stop there, but for now I have 6# to my original goal). Anyway - I find that I do better if I eat much as you've described - I am hungrier (and more likely to give in) at night, so I save most of my calories for evening. My overall macros are where I want, as are my overall calories, but I eat approximately half my calories between dinner and bedtime... so far it's not perfect but it's working better than "6 small meals a day" for me and I can comply better...
I also log my calories from dinner through the next afternoon (instead of breakfast through bedtime). That way, if I do majorly indulge in the evening, I can make up for it a bit during the next day (smaller lunch, for example). I'm MUCH better at eating a small lunch and waiting til dinner than I am at staying on plan when I'm out of calories by 7pm and my stomach's still growling!
Yes, the 6 meals a day concept doesnt work for me. The longer I wait to eat my first meal, the better off I am, as it helps with appetite control. I guess its a concept of intermittent fasting, although I dont know much about the concept. I do wake up pretty hungry and I am usually fine with a piece of fruit and some coffee. I then work out, from 10-11am, and by the time I get home, I get my first meal at 1pm, which is typically between 400 and 500 calories. That keeps me full for a while, I usually have a small snack around 4pm of either fruit, veggies and nuts, and then dinner I eat big (meat with a large portion of veggies, maybe a starchy carb), and fruit and nuts before bed.
Today a trainer in my gym said that I shouldnt eat starchy carbs at night....what is your take on this?. As long we are in an overall deficit, does it matter what type of nutrients I am intaking? I do not track macronutrients.
Sheila, thanks for the post. I am finding that to be totally true. I had been falling into the "I've been doing this forever, so I deserve this" line of thinking this summer. Now I'm making progress again by weighing everything and logging all of it, even the things I wish I hadn't eaten.
getmoving--I don't know about the idea of not eating starchy carbs at night unless you are a person who can eat just a little of them and get satisfied. If you are somebody who would eat a little starchy carbs at night and then want to go on a binge, then yeah, I wouldn't eat them at night, especially if you're more likely to cave to a binge because you're less active or chilling out watching TV. I don't know if there's a reason beyond that, but the same goes for anything (I think) that you might eat that might trigger a binge.
The idea behind tracking macros is that getting a good balance (especially getting enough protein and a good balance on your carbs/fat) will help you keep true to your deficit without giving in too much to hunger.
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"Do you choose to simply know the path, or do you choose to walk it?"
Your body keeps an accurate journal regardless of what you write down...
Sheila, thanks for the post. I am finding that to be totally true. I had been falling into the "I've been doing this forever, so I deserve this" line of thinking this summer. Now I'm making progress again by weighing everything and logging all of it, even the things I wish I hadn't eaten.
Krispy, so far I love my training program (real heavy and basic, focusing on the powerlifts) and I'm getting stronger with every workout (benching 100lbs now, deadlifting 140+, etc.... getting there! :-).
Personally I was eating 6 small meals a day before (literally, each one was the same calories and macros except pre/post workout) and I found it gave me the urge to eat often. I woke up hungry and while I was satiated in between these small meals I craved them.
With IF I prepare all my food on Sundays (mainly LOTS of meat, cottage cheese, and cruciferous/green vegetables) and bring everything to work in baggies. I have 3 meals a day, each of which has very specific macros and calories, changing based on whether it's meal 1, 2 or 3 and if it's a training day or not. At first that's a bit overwhelming but you figure out the foods you like, crunch your numbers in Fitday, and the worst of the work is done.
I have my first meal of the day between noon and 1pm and my last one by 8:30pm. At first I was hungry when I woke up but now it passes quickly. I just make sure I drink lots of water, get a little black coffee in me, and I'm fine. The easiest days are the ones where I adhere 100% to the simplest plan: Like, 175g of grilled chicken breast with 2 cups of cauliflower rather than some convoluted combo that gets real complicated to track and change.
It's still early on (I'm in Week 5) but I've lost some weight and I'm quite a bit stronger. And I feel good! So I'm very hopeful. :-)
Thanks for asking!
__________________ Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
Krispy, so far I love my training program (real heavy and basic, focusing on the powerlifts) and I'm getting stronger with every workout (benching 100lbs now, deadlifting 140+, etc.... getting there! :-).
Personally I was eating 6 small meals a day before (literally, each one was the same calories and macros except pre/post workout) and I found it gave me the urge to eat often. I woke up hungry and while I was satiated in between these small meals I craved them.
With IF I prepare all my food on Sundays (mainly LOTS of meat, cottage cheese, and cruciferous/green vegetables) and bring everything to work in baggies. I have 3 meals a day, each of which has very specific macros and calories, changing based on whether it's meal 1, 2 or 3 and if it's a training day or not. At first that's a bit overwhelming but you figure out the foods you like, crunch your numbers in Fitday, and the worst of the work is done.
I have my first meal of the day between noon and 1pm and my last one by 8:30pm. At first I was hungry when I woke up but now it passes quickly. I just make sure I drink lots of water, get a little black coffee in me, and I'm fine. The easiest days are the ones where I adhere 100% to the simplest plan: Like, 175g of grilled chicken breast with 2 cups of cauliflower rather than some convoluted combo that gets real complicated to track and change.
It's still early on (I'm in Week 5) but I've lost some weight and I'm quite a bit stronger. And I feel good! So I'm very hopeful. :-)
Thanks for asking!
idv8,
are you following a specific IF program or something you modified for yourself? How has your progress been, quantitatively?
Im like you, eat my first real meal at 1pm. Then I just have small snacks, and my next big meal is around 7-8pm. I do need to have coffee and a piece of fruit first thing in morning though, blood sugar is very low
You know I had all these same questions and fears too as I came into my first cut. Ya know what? It wasn't harder to knock off those last 10lbs at all. The perception maybe is that it is harder because many people will have been dieting down for a long while before reaching this point. If they are under 15% body fat then the female body gets a bit weaker and with this weakness comes a natural slow down of NEAT and that sort of thing. If you stay very aware of your NEAT, your overall calories and continue to do hard work in you workouts I think it is pretty possible to have them melt away. Other than those few things I am remembering that it wasn't much differnt than the first 10 lbs I lost.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
From memory the first bit of excess weight was incredibly easy as I was way heavier than my settling point. Since my mom died in 1985 and I ballooned on carb/fat heavy foods, I've always weighed around 72kg and weight wouldn't go below 68kg despite insane amounts of cardio.
Not doing any cardio at all would make me balloon up to 80kg but.. weight would just plummet back down as soon as I'd pick up the pace. E.g. once I started a ketodiet weight dropped from 80 to 72kg (a 17,5lbs drop) in just 6 weeks and further back to 68kg in a couple of months (about 1 kg a month). But it just would not go past 68kg no-matter-what-I tried.
A few years later after having been sick and deciding to just eat and record every morsel, every bite &tc etc. what I ate, pretending to be a neutral observer (anthropologist) I was back to 72kg. Preplanning eats and then sticking to the diet and.. cutting waaaaaay back on cardio but increase NEAT (more walking!!!) made the entire diference and going down to 63kg was amazingly easy.
But dropping further down to say 58kg (128lbs) which would bring me to around 20% fat w/o LBM loss, was & is very hard. Partly because I'm .. well content. BF% is at 25% (Omron) . At 63kg my BMI was exactly 25. A BMI of 25 happens to be the wt with the highest longevity prediction and I was overly joyed to be there. Changing my mindset from being thrilled about having a BMI of 25 but wanting a bf% of 23% (to start with) and preferably 20% , is a very difficult one.
I'm currently at 61kg and am taking a breather for the SAD winter months to come and will resume culking again.
I think it has to do with individual genetics. For me, getting to 120lbs or 18% bf will require hard work and dedication, and maintaining would require lots of cardio or restricting my food intake forever. Once I let up a bit, I gain it back fast.
I just wanted to make that point across, because for many, 15% bodyfat is not easily attainable at all. When I was that lean at one point, I looked emaciated and unhealthy. So I really think there is a genetic component to all this too.
15% is incredibly low for a female but quite feasible for a male. And then again, not even *that* easy for all males. Especially when you've got localized fat like mostly on legs or abdomen it is entirely possible that 15% for a male will indeed make them look skinny fat.
Most people don't think my bf% is currently 25% yet it is.. and it's going to be a real bitch to get down to 20% which is why I'll stop half-way as strength is where my real love is.. not so much being lean & weak. I said weak, since getting to really low bf% mostly implies eating far less than you'd naturally need to maintain. I'd rather be fat(ter) and quite strong.
I believe the last few lbs are harder. Especially down to the last 5-10 lbs. Our bodies don't WANT to let go of that fat, particularly for females. And, it holds on to them for dear life.
I think it has to do with individual genetics. For me, getting to 120lbs or 18% bf will require hard work and dedication, and maintaining would require lots of cardio or restricting my food intake forever. Once I let up a bit, I gain it back fast.
I just wanted to make that point across, because for many, 15% bodyfat is not easily attainable at all. When I was that lean at one point, I looked emaciated and unhealthy. So I really think there is a genetic component to all this too.
totally agree. When I got down to a certain low weight (but was sorta skinny fat so bodyfat % was probably not all that low) my periods stoppped, my face looked gaunt and you could see all the bones in my chest.
Lots of research has confirmed our bodies have "set points". some of us are able to push those points lower and lower while others just physically can't without being unhealthy. If ones' "ideal weight" means they must maintain at 1200 calories (and I know plenty of women who live that way) then obviously that is not an ideal weight for that body!
I believe the last few lbs are harder. Especially down to the last 5-10 lbs. Our bodies don't WANT to let go of that fat, particularly for females. And, it holds on to them for dear life.
Yes, Jane, let's hear it for those that have absolutely zero problems and think they have all the answers for all!!!!
Karla, if you think that was a dig--it was. It was a dig at you and I'm going to tell you why. You often explicitly state or strongly imply that people aren't paying attention to details or just aren't doing it right to begin with. You have had a year's worth of strict attention to detail under your belt and success in meeting your goals, and you think this is it.
Ha.
Let me tell you something, sister.
There are a TON of factors that go into what numbers greet you on the scale in the morning when you have XX as your 23rd pair. Add to that years of serial dieting, bodybuilding, figure competitions, and/or eating disorders, and you can throw out your linear models, K?
If you actually want to be a good trainer, you might want to start adjusting for variables that you personally have not experienced. This anecdotal brahscience bullshit annoys me to no end, sorry. You're working with Alan now, use the opportunity to learn broadly from it and consider that maybe your experience isn't everyone's even if every damned thing else was the same.
If Leigh wants to chime in on this, she can tell you and everyone on JPs green earth about me, with my full permission. I'm completely frickin anal mydamnself, and measure everydamnthing, and do lots of NEAT, and lift heavy, and am lean to begin with, and et CETERA et CETERA et CETERA. Would you like to know how long it has taken us to get 10 lbs off of me with complete attention to everydamnedthing? Hmmm? Can I hear eight months? Yeah.
I'll let Leigh elaborate on this some if and when she pops her far too omniscient head in here, but there is fat loss, there is scale weight, and there is a lot of confusion between the two.
...Karla, if you think that was a dig--it was. It was a dig at you and I'm going to tell you why. You often explicitly state or strongly imply that people aren't paying attention to details or just aren't doing it right to begin with. You have had a year's worth of strict attention to detail under your belt and success in meeting your goals, and you think this is it.
...Would you like to know how long it has taken us to get 10 lbs off of me with complete attention to everydamnedthing? Hmmm? Can I hear eight months? Yeah.
/rant over
That's alright. You seem to seek every chance you can to give me a dig. So look here it is just another. And look again you INFER that I mean something that I absolutely did not say or mean in my post. Please... I was simply posting a differning point of view.
In fact I made this post to make an equally important point about this subject. That point being that losing that last 10lbs is NOT harder for EVERYONE as one will infer after reading enough of these threads. I was terrified going into my last 10 lbs (I think you will find more than one post about this started by me at the time) because of all these threads where people talk about it being so much harder. It simply doesn't have to be for everyone and every situation. Also I was trying to point out if one is aware of all the things that give it the perception of being harder it makes the process a lot easier. (things like low bf% and how that feels and how NEAT decreases automatically with deficit, etc)
Yes there are a LOT of factors to weight loss. I am very sorry that you are struggling so hard and if I could do anything to help you I would. But please don't hate me just because I was able to do it for me using basic concepts with relatively little struggle. It's just how it is and I expect it is that way for more people than just me.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Excellent post. The stars just happened to align for you and I'm thrilled to see it working for you that well.
It doesn't imply that Karla would be pointing fingers at others and say 'hey look at me, do it my way and you will be greeted by success'.
There are a few lessons though that I am learning from her and others.. being anal about calories & macros (mine are way different) and taking enough rest and let NEAT do most of the extra calorie output instead of exaggaring on doing too much strenuous cardio.
Even then there's many other variables to begin with. But yes, provided your hormones aren't wacked (esp thyroid) and you're not piling the stress onto yourself (sleep!!!) it can be relatievely easy once you know how to play the game.
Oh, I definitely do not seek to dig at every opportunity--not even close--but this particular subject is near and dear to my heart.
I realize it is difficult to get outside of your own posts and see how they might be read at times, but I am not the only person who has pointed this out, and I'm telling you, as a trainer, you're going to want to get a little less militantly Karlacentric and a lot more understanding about the difficulties that others experience with this issue. Read the literature and internalize it. There is a lot more going on that just macronutrients and energy expenditure; Espi correctly alludes to the importance of rest as part of the equation as well.
I cautioned you about anecdotal evidence, but I'd like to provide you with a personal anecdote that mirrors yours initially:
The first time I dieted down to 9% by calipers for a bb show (probably closer to 12%, but at any rate low enough to lose the ability to have a cycle for over 18 months), I had NO problem. None. Easy. Calories in, calories out. Lost like clockwork. Tada!
Next time, still, not bad.
Next time... uh oh. Harder.
Next time... Bueller? Bueller?
Things are not static and always completely predictable in these situations. I am just trying to illustrate this point. I am trying to provide examples that are opposite your own. I hope you never personally experience them.
Tina you are WAY over simplifying my journey and my post and my emotions. Just because I chose to relate my personal experience in my posts does NOT mean that I do not see other stories, viewpoints or that my own story is as simple as I take the time to write here.
Your story is actually easier than mine. I honestly cannot completely relate to it being as easy as calories in versus calories out. I am sure it seemed that way as I posted my stats but it was different. I had to make adjustments all the time including macros, cals, rest and activity while I was on the way down. It wasn't as if I just ate xyz and out came 12% bf. There was MUCH more to it. It was a balancing act of many different variables all the way to the end. Also it was hard all the way down becuase let's face it... Being in deficit SUCKS. I am simply saying that the last 10 wasn't significantly different for me than the first 10 except for the factors that I previously mentioned.
I am hoping that this side of the last 10lbs can be heard too without too much hate even if it is a differing opinion.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Without diving into the fray here, I just want to relate my own personal experience from when I originally lost 50# (11 years ago). I started as a sedentary unhealthy person who ate crap (junk) all the time. When I made the initial changes (got more active, ate healthier) the weight came off relatively quickly. It seemed hard AT THE TIME, but looking back, because the changes were a gigantic shock to my system, it was a pretty quick loss. I lost about 40# in 6 months on WW, then took another 4 month to lose 8# more, then the last 2# took forever and I finally adjusted my goal weight 10# higher and started maintenance one year after I started, with a total of about 50# lost (instead of 60#).
There was no way, without doing a LOT more sacrificing and work, that I could've just continued the rate of loss I began with.
It gets slower and harder for many because we have to get stricter with diet, and more active, to continue losing. 2000 cals (JUST a random number here) might be a big enough deficit at 200#, but it's not at 150 or 140... at least not for me!
If I was doing things just the same as when I first changed my lifestyle in 1997, I would have stalled out a long time ago. So, for me, it's harder. It requires more time, more effort, more sacrifice, as I get closer.
Is it my body wanting to cling to the last pounds (or setpoint theory)? I don't know. I just know that my personal experience and that of most (but not all) people I work with is that weight loss slows as you get closer to goal, particularly if you started off more than 15 - 20% above your ideal body weight.
Question: Does anyone have an opinion or any experience with losing 10 lbs in general vs. losing "the last 10 lbs"? (I hope that makes sense)
Tkinsley: 8 months to lose 10 pounds? I would be going out of mind! Why did it take so long?
Kfisherx: Thanks for sharing your experience, too. I'm starting to get the feeling that you and Tkinsley are at opposite extremes and maybe the rest of us are in the middle somewhere?
One can also choose to lose slowly because it leaves for more fun foods and equally important, more strength for workouts.
Especially when the last bit of weight is 'just for vanity' not everyone wants to make fast fat loss a priority.. not even for a brief period of time. Besides, this has always backfired (for me) in the past. Not just mentally but also physically due to a weakened immune system.
So it's not always about not being able to drop fat fast, but also about wanting to do it slowly. If you know to be heading in the right direction, 1 lbs a month is excellent progress. Heck I'll even take 1/2 a lbs a month if this would also mean that there won't be any rebound effect, either hormonally or just because you felt too deprived during the diet and go on a binge afterwards, which is extremely common for competitors.
If you stay very aware of your NEAT, your overall calories and continue to do hard work in you workouts I think it is pretty possible to have them melt away. Other than those few things I am remembering that it wasn't much differnt than the first 10 lbs I lost.
karla, if you said this to me as my trainer right now, ( I actually AM trying to lose my last 10 pounds) I would not receive it very well. by saying that if I just do
A. be aware of my NEAT
B. monitor my overall calories
C. work hard
A + B + C = pounds melting away.
restriction isn't a natural, comfortable place for everyone. it just isn't. and restriction as you get closer to a natural weight for your particular body isn't a comfortable place for everyone. "melt away" reminds me of those stupid ass diet informercials where you take the capsules and the fat just "melts away". for me, losing these last 10 pounds is really hard. I feel hungry sometimes. my energy isn't as high as when I eat maintenance. my workouts don't feel as strong. my endurance sports don't feel as easy.
for me and for some of your clients, restriction is going to suck, and it is going to feel bad. and what we need during this time is not someone to say to us "nyah nyah nyah ya it was just so simple for me, I love restricting, I lost my last 10 easily". we need someone who actually has some experience walking the journey with clients, who understands that fat loss sucks for many people. we need someone who will lead us forward.
trainers who aren't experienced helping clients yet, would be very well served by modeling themselves after the myriad of experienced trainers here and local to them--- learn how to be heard by clients. that is how you get your clients to do what you want them to do and produce results. because if a trainer can't get that skill, they are likely not going to be retaining very many clients or getting very many referrals.
this is just another example of that whole squat thread. I watched you move from doubting julie, and basically posting a thread asking others to support your position, to realizing that maybe the person with the degree in this with more than a decade plus of experience at this might know WTF she is talking about.
when you are responsible for the training and education of others, you have a responsibility to learn how to think outside yourself and your own experiences and learn how to apply objective data, in combination with your own experiences, in a way that meets the needs of the client you are helping.
It wasn't harder to knock off those last 10lbs at all. .
I would love to hear from other forum members (women especially) who have lost more than 30 pounds, who are also at their goal, who found that it wasn't harder to lose the last 10.
part of my practice is working with formerly obese people, many are at goal now, and I haven't met anyone yet who believes that the last 10 pounds were the same as losing the first whatever pounds, particularly individuals who are trying to achieve a body fat in the lean range for their age.
I haven't looked at the literature regarding this specific question yet, but would be curious to hear from the experienced professionals about their clinical experience.
For those with only 10-15 pounds to lose or less
Linear Mode
