The Fat Loss TroubleshootThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. This section is led by Leigh Peele, author of "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot," the ultimate fat loss manual. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
A little history: I just started eating at a slight deficit-200 to 250cals/daily-after focusing on maintaining for several months. The maintenance went better than I could have hoped for. Now, I know that eating a slight deficit will make things move a lot slower than if I were eating at a greater one (duh), and I'm ok with that. I'm hoping for about one pound of fat loss each month.
I've found that when I eat at a higher deficit I fail (maybe because I didn't do refeeds?). Also, I'm hypoglycemic (yes, clinically diagnosed), and I get super light-headed and pass out if I'm not diligent about my eating.
So, finally, here's my question... I was listening to one of Leigh's podcasts on the train this morning, and she mentioned that even if you're eating at a slight deficit, you should do a refeed every now and then, even though you may not realize it at such a small deficit. So, my question is, how often do you do re-feeds, and for how long? I've only just started my deficit, but want to make sure that I don't set myself up to fail yet again.
Right or wrong I decided to do mine for a week, every 12 weeks or so. I suspect my reasons are more psychological than physical need. I've never done well with the concept of cheat meals and/or cheat days. I find it easier to hit my goals every day for a longer period, then take a break. I've done it twice and so far haven't seen it affect my rate of loss. It's possible that it's kept it motoring along since except for the first maintenance week I haven't had a week without a loss since.... umm the end of February, and have kept the rate of loss consistent.
Going by Lyle McD's "Flexible Dieting" book, if you're not at a big deficit, you should do a week off every 12-ish weeks. You don't have to go hog wild, you can still make healthy choices - but go for maintenance or slightly over.
I did this and it was a great "lesson" that I won't gain 50# in a week... it didn't seem to jumpstart my progress though... Mentally it was good though - especially as I realized that when I could eat "whatever" I still had trouble letting go and just eating. By the end of the week, I was doing better with eating "whatever"...
I think 10-12 weeks is a good time between breaks (from what I've read) unless you have a fairly sensitive system, which means you might need breaks a bit more often. I had planned to do breaks every 8-9 weeks because of my arthritis and all fun stuff mixed up with that, but now apparently I'm on a 9 month break. LOL!
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"Do you choose to simply know the path, or do you choose to walk it?"
Your body keeps an accurate journal regardless of what you write down...
I know that Tom Venuto describes zig zag rotations in Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle. I think his basic rotation is 3 days at 15 - 20% and 1 day at maintenance. You will probably have to experiment with the numbers for your best individual results. I hope Leigh will comment on this because I am very interested!
A few short laymen definitions-*Please note that these are quick type references and do not go into the full detail I would love to go*
Diet Break-To break from eating in a caloric deficit. Generally the implication is that you are going to eat at maintenance. Training breaks are also usually mixed with breaks from a caloric deficit.
Re-feeds-A period of time (ranging from a day to weeks) where you are trying to specifically eat in a surplus of caloric needs putting a focus on excess carbohydrates to help reset various hormone levels in the body.
The more aggressive the diet, the more frequent the re-feeds/breaks. The more sensitive the person, the more frequent. The heavier the person, less frequent. The lighter the deficit, less frequent.
If you are in tune with your body pretty well and have a good hold of monitoring progress and results then you can guide by the 10-12 week rules (If that long I recommend a longer period re-feed/training break of 1 week) or you can wait until you stall and then implement a re-feed is feeling the need to push things along a little faster.
For OP-I think you would benefit more from cycling on more moderate levels. Sometimes aggressive re-feeds will affect those with insulin issues a little more harshly. Moderate all the way a round is a bit more key. I would cycling dieting down at moderate paces, take more frequent breaks with low level refeeds, and pace yourself. It may seem "slow" but if you trend the progress you have been having and mix it with projected progress of what you could be having, I bet it will come out "faster" in the long run.
Thank you everyone. Like I mentioned, I don't what to throw myself all out of wack. From the sound of it, cycling might be the best way to go. My original plan is a slight deficit. I think adding maintenance or slighthly above a few time monthly would be pretty beneficial for me. I definately don't want to shock my system with drastic swings.
I'm perfectly happy with slow, as long as it's slow in the right direction!
(BTW, thanks Pauline for asking who OP was, because reading this today, I had no idea and was going to ask myself).
Hi Leigh - could you speak a little more about moderate cycling and what exactly you mean by it? I still get way too hung up on exactly how much extra to eat, when to cut back, and how to know if I'm helping or hindering my own progress. Thanks!
Hi Leigh - could you speak a little more about moderate cycling and what exactly you mean by it? I still get way too hung up on exactly how much extra to eat, when to cut back, and how to know if I'm helping or hindering my own progress. Thanks!
I second Bytsi's request. I know you've alluded to "gentler" more moderate approaches for some people and would like more specifics on what this may look like as far as an actual plan goes. Would it be more similiar to Metaburn vs OPT? Also if you could expand on generally what clients/profiles would be more likely to benefit more from this approach that would be great.
There are all kinds of cycling programs from calorie cycling to carb cycling. Though the two can go hand in hand sometimes they are not mutually exclusive.
Cycling and re-feeds are in part becoming about as mis-understood as HIIT. Everyone thinks they are doing it, and no one knows what the heck they are doing. Next thing you know everyone is re-feeding to much or cutting too much. I just got an email about someone hitting a re-feed day with no carbs and peanuts. Now it isn't there fault, what do they know they just read a thread and move on.
The best thing I can say at the moment is you can read some of Lyle's work or wait until I finish up some stuff I am working on, but no the bulk all the informatoin comes from Lyle in the first place (I don't want to imply otherwise) it is just some find it a little tought to follow/understand when used to more mainstream stuff and I am working on a easier read approach for the blog.
So I hate to be so "non" answer but to give you a good answer right now is to send you somewhere else for the real deal and more than what a thread can be.
The short answer is try to take breaks and re-feed yourself when you start to not feel good. The long answer is really look into what this is all about through a well educated source.
There are all kinds of cycling programs from calorie cycling to carb cycling. Though the two can go hand in hand sometimes they are not mutually exclusive.
Cycling and re-feeds are in part becoming about as mis-understood as HIIT. Everyone thinks they are doing it, and no one knows what the heck they are doing. Next thing you know everyone is re-feeding to much or cutting too much. I just got an email about someone hitting a re-feed day with no carbs and peanuts. Now it isn't there fault, what do they know they just read a thread and move on.
The best thing I can say at the moment is you can read some of Lyle's work or wait until I finish up some stuff I am working on, but no the bulk all the informatoin comes from Lyle in the first place (I don't want to imply otherwise) it is just some find it a little tought to follow/understand when used to more mainstream stuff and I am working on a easier read approach for the blog.
So I hate to be so "non" answer but to give you a good answer right now is to send you somewhere else for the real deal and more than what a thread can be.
The short answer is try to take breaks and re-feed yourself when you start to not feel good. The long answer is really look into what this is all about through a well educated source.
My problem (and I'm sure it's not uncommon) is knowing the difference between my body's needs (refeed) and my mind's needs ("cheat" or free meal). I'm sure one factor on the body needs sides is gym performance (I experienced this at the end of my first full week on OPT when my gym performance completely tanked). I'm not sure, though, when I should suck it up and suffer (after all, it is a diet!) or when I should allow myself extra food, carbs, etc. It's really easy to justify going off plan because the body "needs" it.
I'm not sure, though, when I should suck it up and suffer (after all, it is a diet!) or when I should allow myself extra food, carbs, etc. It's really easy to justify going off plan because the body "needs" it.
I'm often unsure of this, not just in diet but in other areas of my life like exercise or even work. When is extra food/vegging out a little/cutting back at work something I need; when is it simply slacking. And the same for their opposites. When do I need to tighten up the diet/pick up the exercise/dive into my work; when is it overkill and going too far.
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"Time and patience are the 2 elements that most people don't include in their plans."
-Alan Aragon
"The scale simply tells you how much the earth loves you on a particular day."
-Ogedei (Keith)
My problem (and I'm sure it's not uncommon) is knowing the difference between my body's needs (refeed) and my mind's needs ("cheat" or free meal). I'm sure one factor on the body needs sides is gym performance (I experienced this at the end of my first full week on OPT when my gym performance completely tanked). I'm not sure, though, when I should suck it up and suffer (after all, it is a diet!) or when I should allow myself extra food, carbs, etc. It's really easy to justify going off plan because the body "needs" it.
You said a mouthful there! Am I just being a wimp or is my body telling me something? Because I don't trust my body (if I could, I wouldn't have gotten fat in the first place!), I second-guess often. I'm learning the difference between hunger and appetite, but as far as "need a break" versus "that cake looks gooooood" - not always so sure...
You said a mouthful there! Am I just being a wimp or is my body telling me something? Because I don't trust my body (if I could, I wouldn't have gotten fat in the first place!), I second-guess often. I'm learning the difference between hunger and appetite, but as far as "need a break" versus "that cake looks gooooood" - not always so sure...
I read something in Men's Health once about how to tell a craving from hunger. They said to substitute red meat in place of whatever you are craving (or you could use chicken, tuna or some other protein) and ask yourself, "If the cake (cookie, whatever) was red meat (chicken, tuna, whatever), would I still want it?" If "Yes", it's hunger, if "No", it's a craving.
I know Leigh touched on the subject in her "Crazy Fat Loss" podcast but it's still hasn't resonated with me yet.
I read something in Men's Health once about how to tell a craving from hunger. They said to substitute red meat in place of whatever you are craving (or you could use chicken, tuna or some other protein) and ask yourself, "If the cake (cookie, whatever) was red meat (chicken, tuna, whatever), would I still want it?" If "Yes", it's hunger, if "No", it's a craving.
I know Leigh touched on the subject in her "Crazy Fat Loss" podcast but it's still hasn't resonated with me yet.
Yup, when I'm happy to eat a piece of chicken that I just nuked plain I KNOW I'm hungry. But often there are big gray areas where I'm still not sure what signals I am hearing (hunger? emotion? desire for sensation? tiredness? social cues?)
__________________
"Time and patience are the 2 elements that most people don't include in their plans."
-Alan Aragon
"The scale simply tells you how much the earth loves you on a particular day."
-Ogedei (Keith)
That'd not be a fair comparison since there's only so much protein you can eat.
A better comparsion would be: would you be happy to eat that quinoa/rice (preferably prepared in broth) instead of the cake?
Rice cakes are teh yum actually and are a class in between 'junkfood' and 'healthfoods'
Refeeds-how often and for how long?
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