Weight Loss Stopped

[wes_mantooth]

I have dropped from about 250 to 203. My wife and I moved and had a child and I have consistently maintained at aroun 208-210. I feel like I have significantly changed the composition of my body, but I would like to get down to around 190 lbs. My scale still says I am about 27% body fat. I lift weights 3 days a week followed by about 20-30 minutes of low intensity cardio. On non-lifting days I do tabata rounds on a heavy bag for thirty minutes and then do 20-30 minutes of low intensity cardio on a bike. I have used calculators that tell me to lose two lbs. a week I should eat around 2200-2400 calories a day. I like to think that I eat pretty healthy. I normally have a cheat meal or two on the weekend so I don't know if it's a refeed issue. For instance today my diet looked like this:

Breakfast:
Bowl of oatmeal
2 egg omelet with salsa and a slice of lowfat cheese

Postworkout:
ON AfterMax shake (about 450 cals. 40g protein, 40 g carbs)

Lunch:
Turkey sandwich with spinach greens, fat free mayo, low fat cheese
Apple

Dinner:
South Beach dinner (245 cals, 24 g protein, 10 carbs)
Grapefruit

Snack:
Handful of walnuts
Partskim cheese stick

Snack:
Large fatfree, sugarfree latte from starbucks

This is a fairly typical day. I know this is a long read. Thanks in advance to anyone who can give me any advice to how to get back on the wagon.

[SpacecityPaula]

1) Track what you are actually eating in terms of calories and rough macro percentages. Weigh everything (in grams) and assume nothing. What do your cheat meals look like?
You could be overeating and not realize it - especially since you are doing tabatas. They could be stressing your system.

2) When's the last time you took a training break?If it's been a while, take a week off and eat at maintenance or slightly above to allow your hormones to reset and shake things up a bit.

3) How many days a week do you just rest and do nothing more than maybe take a walk and stretch? If you're lifting 3 days a week, doing tabatas 4x a week and doing low intensity stuff everyday, you're over training and need to cut your work load so that your body has time recover and repair.

[perrogrande007]

What are you using, a Tanita scale? They are not accurate at all, believe me, I sell them.

Stop the low intensity cardio, actually I should use the term aerobics. Cardio is not low intensity, it's moderate to high. If you are that overly fat you don't need it. You should be able to get to 10% with lifting, nutrition, and supplementation. Use cardio and sprints when you get below 8-10 and nothing else works. Lift more, cardio less.

Where do you hold most of your bodyfat?

Honestly, I don't know what the fuss is about tabata. I haven't met anyone that is really lean with a great physique that uses them. Yes I have seen the research but research isn't everything. If you want to use conditioning to lose bodyfat you are better off using longer distances or times than what tabata calls for. I'm talking 200-400m (about 30-90 seconds on an elliptical or bike, which at your current fat percentage is what I would recommend). Tabata is great for getting into shape but for fat loss it pales in comparison to better modalities like lactate training with weights or sprint intervals.

You are better off learning portion control and what foods to eat than you are using calculations. Your body is different everyday and calculations do not work. Weight or measure things for a few days and then eyeball it or you will drive yourself nuts with the numbers.

Your nutrition is terrible. Not enough protein or fat at all and IMO too many carbs for your percentage. Drop the carbs completely for 2-3 weeks, then have a carb day every 7th day. As you lean up reduce the days between your carb ups. Increase your good fats. Fish oil at 15-45g a day. It works miracles at 45g a day, trust me on this. You will feel like a million bucks. As you lean out you can decrease the dosage. Drop the South Beach Diet meals. Drop the oatmeal in the morning and double the eggs. Try some lean steak or buffalo for breakfast with nuts. Add some fruit to your breakfast like tomato or avocado. Get a different shake that has no carbs and take a TBSP fish oil with it (Carlson's). Use your current shake during your carb up. Drop the bread from your lunch and double up on everything else. Keep the apple. Instead of the South Beach Dinner cook some tilapia and some green veggies. It takes what, 3 min to cook a SB dinner? It only takes 5 or 6 to cook some tilapia and it's much better for you. Drop the latte and just get straight coffee with half and half or full creamer in it.

Don't fear the fat, fear the insulin for now. Insulin is not your friend right now but will be when you get really lean. Your best bet is to keep your insulin as low as possible and then use it in bursts when you get leaner.

If you could post some pics or email them to me if you don't want to post them publicly then I could give further advice.

Also, I'm not meaning to come off as harsh in my post, my bedside manners need improvement. I'm more of a tell you like it is kind of a guy

Depending on where you store fat will also determine what type of training you need to be on as well as supplements and it can also determine your eating but for most people the above will work beautifully.

IMO you aren't "stuck." You are just confused as to what to do, which is understandable b/c of all of the bs info that there is out there. It gets very confusing. I think making a major overhaul would put you on the right track.

Originally Posted by wes_mantooth

I have dropped from about 250 to 203. My wife and I moved and had a child and I have consistently maintained at aroun 208-210. I feel like I have significantly changed the composition of my body, but I would like to get down to around 190 lbs. My scale still says I am about 27% body fat. I lift weights 3 days a week followed by about 20-30 minutes of low intensity cardio. On non-lifting days I do tabata rounds on a heavy bag for thirty minutes and then do 20-30 minutes of low intensity cardio on a bike. I have used calculators that tell me to lose two lbs. a week I should eat around 2200-2400 calories a day. I like to think that I eat pretty healthy. I normally have a cheat meal or two on the weekend so I don't know if it's a refeed issue. For instance today my diet looked like this:

Breakfast:
Bowl of oatmeal
2 egg omelet with salsa and a slice of lowfat cheese

Postworkout:
ON AfterMax shake (about 450 cals. 40g protein, 40 g carbs)

Lunch:
Turkey sandwich with spinach greens, fat free mayo, low fat cheese
Apple

Dinner:
South Beach dinner (245 cals, 24 g protein, 10 carbs)
Grapefruit

Snack:
Handful of walnuts
Partskim cheese stick

Snack:
Large fatfree, sugarfree latte from starbucks

This is a fairly typical day. I know this is a long read. Thanks in advance to anyone who can give me any advice to how to get back on the wagon.

[maggieandmommy]

I will echo others--I felt like I was "stuck" for 6 months because I was working out crazy hard and I felt like I was eating pretty well. When I started following Leigh's advice and I started to weigh and measure everything, the weight started flying off. I lost 10 lbs that first month. If you don't weigh and measure everything, then that's the first place I'd start. You might be shocked to see how many calories you are really eating. I would say to go with measurement in grams, too, instead of relying on measuring cups, etc. Watch Leigh's video about weighing and measuring food, and you'll see why.

Looks like you have had some good suggestions here, too. Good luck!

[iowafepusher]

Yes, try measuring your food! I finally bought a digital scale yesterday, the same one in the video, in fact. It was on sale at Super Target for $12 off - don't know if it's the same at all stores but you can check.

It's funny. I haven't watched that video until just now, but I had the same experience with both peanut butter and oatmeal. What I had been GUESSING was a 100-calorie portion was more like 200! And my half-cup measure of oatmeal came out to 53 grams - 13 more than it should be! Wheat germ, bee pollen, ground flaxseeds... all ended up being nearly double the weight I was guesstimating. What an eye opener.

I've been eating AT LEAST 500 extra calories per day. No wonder I've been gaining! And I thought using measuring cups and spoons was good enough. Ugh.

[Bytsi]

Originally Posted by perrogrande007

Stop the low intensity cardio, actually I should use the term aerobics. Cardio is not low intensity, it's moderate to high. If you are that overly fat you don't need it. You should be able to get to 10% with lifting, nutrition, and supplementation. Use cardio and sprints when you get below 8-10 and nothing else works. Lift more, cardio less.

Uh, are you at all familiar with any of Leigh's books or advice? Sometimes doing higher intensity cardio stimulates the appetite too much, and also beats up the body too much. This advice can work for some, but it's not the only way.

Another option for Wes is that you need more recovery and to workout smarter, not harder. You absolutely need to weigh/measure your foods, because a "handful" has a pretty wide range of error - might be as simple as you aren't at a deficit at all.

You didn't say if you feel hungry or not, in general. If working out hard (intensely) makes you hungrier and more likely to sneak in extra food, then lower intensity cardio might be a good thing for you. Many of us here found that when we did slower longer cardio workouts, we were able to stay on program with our food better, and that leads to better weight loss.

Also, don't forget the importance of being active all day (NEAT = non-exercise activity thermogenesis). In other words, if you workout hard then are so tired that you sit on your butt the rest of the day, it's not serving you well. If you are active, walk around, don't plant on the couch all day, you're going to achieve a better overall calorie burn, which translates to weight (fat) loss.

Originally Posted by perrogrande007

You are better off learning portion control and what foods to eat than you are using calculations. Your body is different everyday and calculations do not work. Weight or measure things for a few days and then eyeball it or you will drive yourself nuts with the numbers.

How is his body different every day? Is his body not ruled by the same laws of thermodynamics than everyone else's? Measuring can be an extremely important tool. Portion control is important, but it has to start with knowing what an actual portion should be. Calculations DO work.

Wes - you may not need to measure forever, but definitely weigh/measure for a while to get a better feel for exactly what you're eating. You need to know if your 2400 kcal diet is really 2400 or closer to 3000 (or more)!

Originally Posted by perrogrande007

Your nutrition is terrible. Not enough protein or fat at all and IMO too many carbs for your percentage. Drop the carbs completely for 2-3 weeks, then have a carb day every 7th day.

Again, that is ONE option, but I saw plenty of protein (eggs, turkey, protein shake, in his dinner, cheese, etc). I can't say for sure since no exact servings are listed, but I wouldn't assume that the macros are bad. And overall bottom line calories eaten trumps macros at this point.

Wes - do you want to go super low-carb? If you do, that's great, but it's not the only option. Plenty of people here have success with low carb, but plenty also have success with moderate carbs in their diets.

You could work on incorporating more whole foods (less frozen dinner). The more one-ingredient foods (like eggs, turkey, veggies, etc) that you eat, the better.

I'm sure Leigh and others here will chime in too - good luck. If you haven't read FLTS yet, you could probably benefit a lot from it.

Good luck!

[perrogrande007]

Originally Posted by Bytsi

Uh, are you at all familiar with any of Leigh's books or advice? Sometimes doing higher intensity cardio stimulates the appetite too much, and also beats up the body too much. This advice can work for some, but it's not the only way.

Another option for Wes is that you need more recovery and to workout smarter, not harder. You absolutely need to weigh/measure your foods, because a "handful" has a pretty wide range of error - might be as simple as you aren't at a deficit at all.

You didn't say if you feel hungry or not, in general. If working out hard (intensely) makes you hungrier and more likely to sneak in extra food, then lower intensity cardio might be a good thing for you. Many of us here found that when we did slower longer cardio workouts, we were able to stay on program with our food better, and that leads to better weight loss.

Also, don't forget the importance of being active all day (NEAT = non-exercise activity thermogenesis). In other words, if you workout hard then are so tired that you sit on your butt the rest of the day, it's not serving you well. If you are active, walk around, don't plant on the couch all day, you're going to achieve a better overall calorie burn, which translates to weight (fat) loss.



How is his body different every day? Is his body not ruled by the same laws of thermodynamics than everyone else's? Measuring can be an extremely important tool. Portion control is important, but it has to start with knowing what an actual portion should be. Calculations DO work.

Wes - you may not need to measure forever, but definitely weigh/measure for a while to get a better feel for exactly what you're eating. You need to know if your 2400 kcal diet is really 2400 or closer to 3000 (or more)!



Again, that is ONE option, but I saw plenty of protein (eggs, turkey, protein shake, in his dinner, cheese, etc). I can't say for sure since no exact servings are listed, but I wouldn't assume that the macros are bad. And overall bottom line calories eaten trumps macros at this point.

Wes - do you want to go super low-carb? If you do, that's great, but it's not the only option. Plenty of people here have success with low carb, but plenty also have success with moderate carbs in their diets.

You could work on incorporating more whole foods (less frozen dinner). The more one-ingredient foods (like eggs, turkey, veggies, etc) that you eat, the better.

I'm sure Leigh and others here will chime in too - good luck. If you haven't read FLTS yet, you could probably benefit a lot from it.

Good luck!

I'm not advising him to do high intensity cardio, I'm advising him to lay off the aerobics. If he feels like he needs cardio to lose bodyfat, then have at it, but it's usually not necessary for changing someone's physique.

As far as the law of thermodynamics, no, it doesn't differ daily, but the variables do. You are also assuming that using the concept of thermodynamics is the only way to lose bodyfat, or the most efficient, and it's simply not. Controlling hormones and partitioning nutrients is much more effective. Trying to "work off" calories and trying to figure calories in and out is a very inefficient way to do things.

Read his post. What he has been doing is not working, so a change is needed.

Also, to clarify, I am talking about losing body fat, not weight. If you just want to lose weight, then calories in versus calories out works. But then you go from being big and fat to being small and fat, like Jared in the Subway commercials.

Leigh gives great advice, I am familiar with her principles. All of us physique coaches use the same basic principles but obviously adapt them for what we do. I coach bodybuilders, figure athletes, and strength athletes, so my main expertise is losing bodyfat, not weight.

[perrogrande007]

Originally Posted by Bytsi

And overall bottom line calories eaten trumps macros at this point.

Okay, I just saw this and I have to say that this statement is absolutely incorrect.

You think that 200 calories from pizza and ice cream will trump 400 calories of lean meat and veggies? Do you think that it will have the same hormonal response? Which one do you suppose the body will use most efficiently?

[Leigh P.]

Really. So eating in excess of energy needs but eating them all in veggies and protein will give you the desired look you want, is that what you are saying?

Partitioning means jack if you don't have energy balance under control.

[Bytsi]

Originally Posted by perrogrande007

As far as the law of thermodynamics, no, it doesn't differ daily, but the variables do. You are also assuming that using the concept of thermodynamics is the only way to lose bodyfat, or the most efficient, and it's simply not. Controlling hormones and partitioning nutrients is much more effective. Trying to "work off" calories and trying to figure calories in and out is a very inefficient way to do things.

Read his post. What he has been doing is not working, so a change is needed.

Also, to clarify, I am talking about losing body fat, not weight. If you just want to lose weight, then calories in versus calories out works. But then you go from being big and fat to being small and fat, like Jared in the Subway commercials.

Leigh gives great advice, I am familiar with her principles. All of us physique coaches use the same basic principles but obviously adapt them for what we do. I coach bodybuilders, figure athletes, and strength athletes, so my main expertise is losing bodyfat, not weight.

I disagree. What is being suggested by myself and others is designed to help lose bodyfat. No one here said to eat Subway and get skinny-fat. But you can't sweat the details (hormone manipulation and nutrient partitioning) until you've got the big things (like how much are you actually eating) down.

Consider that what he's been doing isn't working because the workouts aren't leaving him any room for rest and recovery, and he is measuring his food by means of "a handful" and "a bowl" instead of in grams. See below...

Originally Posted by Leigh P.

Really. So eating in excess of energy needs but eating them all in veggies and protein will give you the desired look you want, is that what you are saying?

Partitioning means jack if you don't have energy balance under control.

I was gonna reply, but I can't say it better than Leigh

[Leigh P.]

Originally Posted by perrogrande007

Leigh gives great advice, I am familiar with her principles. All of us physique coaches use the same basic principles but obviously adapt them for what we do. I coach bodybuilders, figure athletes, and strength athletes, so my main expertise is losing bodyfat, not weight.

Also I work in fat loss. Leave your "water" loss/carb tricks and hormone theories to the other gurus. I do fat.

[Leigh P.]

Originally Posted by Bytsi

I disagree. What is being suggested by myself and others is designed to help lose bodyfat. No one here said to eat Subway and get skinny-fat. But you can't sweat the details (hormone manipulation and nutrient partitioning) until you've got the big things (like how much are you actually eating) down.

Consider that what he's been doing isn't working because the workouts aren't leaving him any room for rest and recovery, and he is measuring his food by means of "a handful" and "a bowl" instead of in grams. See below...



I was gonna reply, but I can't say it better than Leigh

Very well put.

You just can't make blanket statements like that because the truth it is that it matters. That doesn't mean to not try and get nutrients down to be best and most optimum levels you can, but, it doesn't mean that energy balance doesn't matter. Period.

Wes just need to really chart his intake now and up his nutrient intake. That is all, it isn't that complicated and certainly doesn't have to get into partitioning.

[perrogrande007]

No water tricks here Leigh. I keep a database of caliper measurements for my clients and the calipers don't measure water.


I will agree to disagree with you ladies today. After all, there is more than one way to skin a cat, agree?

[wes_mantooth]

Okay, well thanks for all the advice. I've been getting really discouraged and this is exactly why. There is so much conflicting info out there and everybody has a different answer. Like I said I have dropped from 250 to 210 and either added a significant amount of muscle or just uncovered a lot of it. I work from home and I have plenty of time to work out. I enjoy working out. Therefore I don't see it as overtraining. I lift every other day. I box on off days. I do about 20 minutes on the bike after each workout just to get some cardiovascular exercise in. I did measure my food when I was losing weight and I was coming in at around 1800-1900 calories a day. Obviously with my workouts that was not enough food. I was doing the low carb thing when I was losing, but I was miserable. Now I am mixing in some carbs here and there. Besides calories in vs. calories out, I was under the impression that carbs were best consumed at breakfast, preworkout, and postworkout. That's why I had oatmeal with breakfast, an apple preworkout, and carbs with my postworkout shake. When I say a "bowl" of oatmeal, I mean a single serve packet of Quaker "weight control" oats. They have 160 cals, 29 g carbs, 7 g protein, 3 g fat per packet. I don't think that plus two eggs, salsa, and a slice of cheese is a bad breakfast. I generally eat a sandwich on whole wheat bread for lunch with spinach greens, carrots, and either an apple or grapes. I have a postworkout shake and then I have a meat and veggie for dinner. The meals I posted for last night were different because I have class until 9pm. I usually either have cottage cheese or another protein shake before bed. I'm pretty anal about it. That's why I've been so frustrated. But I am getting stronger and my pants keep getting bigger! I think I'm just impatient and expect results immediately. Again I appreciate all the advice and thanks for reading my little novels!

[UConnJulie]

Give yourself two weeks ... two weeks of tracking your calories anally, weighing every single morsel that goes into your mouth. Aim for whatever deficit you think you can manage according to the calculators, and see where you are in two weeks.

Other than making sure you get plenty of protein, don't worry so much about the macros. IMO, macro manipulation is largely to keep you feeling satisfied, to reduce cravings and to keep horm