The Fat Loss TroubleshootThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. This section is led by Leigh Peele, author of "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot," the ultimate fat loss manual. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
Hello everyone. I'm completely perplexed. Recently I started running (about one month) and I've built up from no running to 15-20 miles a week. But no weight loss! I eat very little desserts/junkfood but i do eat lots of fruit, and very little processed food except for whole grain breads and cereals. Otherwise lots of salad and lean meats. Any ideas?
You also need to look at your activity level when you aren't running. If you've added the running in but have pretty much cut out all normal activity compared to what you did before you were running (because you're just plain worn out from all of the running), then the exercise isn't making that much of a difference.
You have to be at a caloric deficit. The best way to do this is to get your food right and then do as little exercise as you need to do in order to lose weight while you keep your daily activity level (general walking around and moving) as high as you can. If you are determined to keep running like crazy, then you need to make sure that your calories are right and that you have a good solid deficit.
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"Do you choose to simply know the path, or do you choose to walk it?"
Your body keeps an accurate journal regardless of what you write down...
There's an excellent, eye-opening article by John Berardi at Precision Nutrition about how exercise alone is worthless for fat loss. It's pretty shocking but the facts are there. Exercise is vital and it will make you healthier, faster, stronger, etc. But without your diet really dialed in it will not burn fat.
Keep up your running but find a solid nutritional plan (like Leigh's or John's) and watch the fat come off! Good luck & have fun!!!
__________________ Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
I was never successful at fat loss until I dialed back my running significantly. running for me increases my need for complex carbs--I eat more when I run. I can maintain fine while running, but I didn't drop serious bodyfat until I stopped the running, did some shorter intense weight training and focused on a calorie deficit. my body handles deficits much easier when I don't run.
I find that running makes me hungrier and more tired than other forms of cardio thus I tend to eat more to compensate. Diet really is key for weight loss. It is hard for me to stick to my diet when working out hard. I can do it for a while but then the hunger/fatigue just gets to me. It doesn't take much to eat more than you need for weight loss.
i'd like to keep running and i plan on adding some weightlifting to my routine as well. how do i know that i'm not giving my body too few calories with all the exercise? should i feel tired and cranky (and Hungry)with a calorie deficit? any suggestions on pre/post run meals that will give me the protein/carbs without being to caloric?
I noticed from other posts that you said you were lifting before and have stopped to concentrate on marathon training- maybe we have similar metabolic needs-when I run more than I circuit/cross train/lift-I gain weight and fat% even if the diet is the same. Marathon training really does take full committment but I would suggest that if your marathon is far enough out, that you incorporate either lifting or a good circuit workout that has some sprints or uphill runs (will also benefit your marathon training) a couple of times a week and maybe cut one of the short runs out.
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The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'.
I was never successful at fat loss until I dialed back my running significantly. running for me increases my need for complex carbs--I eat more when I run. I can maintain fine while running, but I didn't drop serious bodyfat until I stopped the running, did some shorter intense weight training and focused on a calorie deficit. my body handles deficits much easier when I don't run.
Me three and four. Running is not some magic bullet to fat loss. This is especially true if you run at higher HR all the time like I used to do. Losing weight is about less calories and once you have that figured out then you can dial in the work outs.
Take a few weeks off and get your calories in check. Then add all the stuff in that you want nice and slowly while keeping calories in check. You'll be in tune then with what makes you overeat and what doesn't.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
how do i know that i'm not giving my body too few calories with all the exercise?
Are you tracking your calories? That's the only way to know. And by tracking, I mean weighing and measuring and writing down EVERYTHING. You should also figure out what your body needs based on your activity level and then what level of deficit you want to work towards.
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Originally Posted by nicoleclipse
should i feel tired and cranky (and Hungry)with a calorie deficit?
Most likely, especially if you're running that much. Your body will want to refeed and reset itself to the level of calories that it thinks it needs, and not giving it those calories makes you tired, cranky, and hungry.
With that said, before this pregnancy, I was eating at a pretty big deficit and for the most part wasn't tired, hungry, or cranky. I was only doing regular NEAT activity and some walks, though, so I wasn't pushing my body in intense exercise sessions.
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"Do you choose to simply know the path, or do you choose to walk it?"
Your body keeps an accurate journal regardless of what you write down...
Also, even if you kept your calorie intake the same over that month, then the running should only take off 2 pounds. That's an amount that's easy to hide under normal weight fluctuations.
As far as being hungry in a calorie deficit, I guess people are different. I find that my body goes through a phase of HUNGRY and then adjusts. Also, cardio seems to impact people differently: it sounds weird, but 30 minutes of cardio acts like a meal-replacement for me, boosting energy, calming stress, and replacing the hungries. And generally making it easier to eat healthy foods (fruits, veggies, lean protein) over junk.
Weight lifting (NROL4W) hasn't gotten me to that same point. When I first started, I was ravenous. Now, at stage 5 with the ridiculously long rests, I'm just annoyed at spending hours in the gym.
checked out Rachel Cosgroves article. that's what i feel like. I almost feel like i've gained weight!! she looked great afterwards.
What's a good lifting program to burn fat? I can do intervals a few times a week to replace some of the steady state runs. Is NROL4W successful for people? anything else you'd recommend?
Nicole started talking about Rachel Cosgrove because I linked that article. She has another article at that same site about the metabolic circuits.
I'm doing NROL4W--the workouts are by her hubby Alwyn, which you probably know--I've lost over 10 lbs with the program but could have been more if I had buckled down more. I know that others on this site have found it difficult to maintain a deficit on the program, and I'm finding that to be the case in stage 6 for sure. The program is amazing for overall fitness and body comp--my body fat percentage has gone from about 31% to about 27%.
If you don't have a lot of fat to lose, like 10 pounds, NROL4W may make you happy because your body comp will change so much that you may need to revise your goals. : )
Aw, Jane, what do you have against them cute little kitties? ; )
thanks for the great links and tips. Here's one more question for all of you: how do keep my running base so after i reach my weight goal (lose 10lbs) i can continue with mild endurance? (not more than 10 miles in one run) I enjoy running and would like to continue, but it's not helping my physique any. Is it possible to do endurance training at a moderate level and not soften up? After reading Rachel C's article, it almost seems like endurance training of any sort is a gamble on weight gain. sorry i'm so clueless! thanks for all the great advice, and hope you can help with this last one!
I had to give up my endurance cardio for some time to reach my body comp goals. I have to think most people would. I have all but stopped cardio in fact in order to focus on diet and weight training so that I can have a hot figure with lots of LBM. Cardio did not do anything like that at all for me and I haven't figured out yet how to add it back in with longer than 3 or so mile runs.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
karla, I think it is important, particularly as you transition to the world of personal training, to understand that just because you experienced it that way, doesn't mean your clients or others will experience it that way. I have 6 friends that are ironman finishers. some of them had experiences like rachel cosgrove, and your experience and my experience with distance stuff--they don't do as well with fat loss. but some people do really well with fat loss during distance. I have one friend who tracked all of her nutrition and exercise, and maintained
around a 500 calorie daily deficit while training for her ironman, and she steadily lost weight during her training and looked great. and still does. another just finished ironman louisville with the same story.
the scientific literature right now is not conclusive on the issue--there are studies that show lots of different things.
I think it will ultimately boil down to individual physiology. there are some people who are not triggered to eat more by endurance sport. their bodies manage distance without the metabolic stress that others experience. and I think there is a breaking point for everyone--ie at some point if you cut nutrition too low or train too long or too intensely without proper nutrition, weight loss could stall no matter what your genetics. probably everyone will need to find their own individual sweet spot where you can train for your event, drop some fat and keep all systems happy. and that happy place is likely on a continuum.
when I share my experiences, I try to emphasize that this is MY experience. in contrast to how you advised me in my log--you told me that most of the muscle I thought I was gaining was actually water and other stuff, and that I should expect to lose a lot of it during fat loss. this was YOUR experience with cutting. so far, it really hasn't been my experience.
in all of the helping professions, we always use our own experiences to help our clients. but the best advise is a combination of what you know through personal experience, what you know of objective data in the literature, and what you have observed in other clients and friends, among other ingredients.
I am in my 12th week of a marathon training program (16 week program). I have not lost any weight because I am definitely more hungry. My diet isn't as clean and when I eat really clean and watch my calories, my running suffers. I also am interested in finding a balance with running when I am done with my marathon. I want to continue with fewer miles per week but improve my body composition. When I am finished with my marathon in October, I am going to spend 1-2 months trying to lose bodyfat with a deficit and then create a balanced strength training and running program. I will be experimenting to see what works, but I don't want to quit running altogether (for many reasons). Good luck tweeking what works for you
Jen
Wendy thanks for the reminder. I had my first formal class last night and so the realization is starting to sink in that I am going to do this thing so it is time for me to get more serious about objectivity.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
I wish there was a clearer pattern to the cardio/weight-training and hunger issue. I wonder if it's a question of how fit you already are? I recently tried adding cross-fit type training and I'm ravenous. Metabolic disturbance, yes, but maybe too far. I wasn't wearing a HRM for it, but I had to stop/slow down many times over the hour, so it was like doing sprint training.
On the other hand, I've had 10-pounds-in-a-month weight loss by doing cardio and watching what I eat. But I do keep my HR in the 80-90% range outside of the warm-up/cool-down. Rachel talked about staying in the "fat burning" range for her sessions, which is barely a fast walk for me. So her 8-hours of endurance training would be like me spending a day strolling around on vacation. When I was trying to lose weight, I wasn't trying to become "better" at cardio. I just did it, often, at a pace that got my heart rate up, let me go for 1 hour and didn't turn me into a couch potato for the rest of the day. The more mindless it was, the better, since I used cardio as a time to read.
RG1, I have also wondered whether it is a fitness issue, or maybe even muscle fiber type issue (ie slow twitch, fast twitch). I haven't really searched the literature on this specifically--will need to do that when I have time.
I also experience ridiculously high hunger on days when I do intense circuit training, like today. more protein seems to help somewhat.
oh, and nicole, I just wanted to say too, that sometimes scale weight is a bad measure of progress--obviously the scale has to go down eventually with fat loss. but several of us in the challenge have lost fat and gained muscle with absolutely no change in scale weight. I would recommend caliper testing by an experienced tester monthly--and also measurements monthly--waist, hip, chest, arms, thigh, neck. sometimes these values change. obviously for serious fat loss, scale weight eventually changes too. but you can do some wonderful "body recomposition" by eating at maintenance calories and doing resistance training.
Hmmmm.... I bet it has more to do with awareness than fitness. Before I lifted I wasn't really aware of my body's overall energy level. I can always run ss-cardio no matter what my deficit is. Lifting is a different story. I am a fairly fit person right now with RHR in the 50s and BP at 68/95 and it still happens that I cannot do endurance stuff on a deficit and keep up a respectable lifting program.
I may be totally talking out my ass but for me it isn't hunger related at all from what I can tell. I can (discipline) stick my cals even when I run or bike long distances. The problem then is that when I go to the gym to lift I am too weak to lift to my best ability. I have found that if you wanna keep muscle ya gotta lift. Also if you are running for 3-4 hours in an ss-cardio state I am pretty sure that you are burning muscle. Is there anyway around burning muscle on a 4 mile run in the 145 HR zone?
Doing body recomp (which is what most people are really after) in a deficit is about finding the magic forumula of having energy to do the work required to meet your goals and feeling comfortable in the hunger department so that you can maintain deficit. It is a tricky balancing act and I really think that you have to go out, experiment with it and find what works for you. I think the easiest place to start with your experiements though is in the kitchen. Without ss-cardio (endurance) see if you can keep your deficit and energy. Then move from there to see what you can add back in.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
I wasn't implying that I can lose weight with cardio because I'm more fit, but because I'm less: Doing cardio in that lactate threshold range 80-90% (150-170 HR) is not doable for 3-4 hours. (145 doesn't even break a sweat for me - and may be more muscle-reducing.) Maybe because I'm LESS fit, the cardio does for me what you/Rachel need from weight training.
And, I'm not "most people" but most people I know are not skinny-fat but are large with a good lbm but with a high fat store on top of it. Body recomp is NOT everyone's goal. Losing fat while retaining muscle would put them in a great place. Losing fat while losing small amounts of muscle would also put them in a good place. I don't deny that I lost some muscle in that 10 pounds - my best guess is ~3 lbs - but my overall fat percentage dropped, I looked and felt better...
oh, agreed RG1. I think people's goals can be quite varied. body recomp is ONE of MANY goals. a great example of your experience is this woman that is in the 100 women doing PN lean eating. she has dropped 25 pounds of scale weight in 12 weeks. 10 of those were LBM according to calipers. of course, we know that included in LBM is total body water, so she didn't actually lose 10 pounds of bone, muscle or organ proteins, some of that is fluid. she started out pretty lean, and now is around 13-14%. she is a natural mesomorph and had a LOT of lean mass before. she still looks muscular and strong, but with beautiful visible abs, quads, biceps. so she is another example of someone who, if all she did was "body recomp", eating at maintainance, losing fat, gaining muscle, she would look very different from how she does now.
in my recent deficit, I have actually hung onto my dry lean mass as well as my fluids--(I did have a large fluid loss the first week, but then it stabilized) I look VERY different after this month of aggressive fat loss compared to 6 months of body recomp at maintenance calories.
as far as "most people wanting recomp" I can give you the names of 3 of my triathlon friends right now that would absolutely disagree with this. are they mildly overweight, yes. would they be faster triathletes if they lost fat? of course. are they willing to do the restriction that is required to get leaner. not right now. maybe not ever. would they be up for eating at maintenance and adding some resistance training to build muscle? maybe. could that then lead to a place where they may be comfortable restricting in the future kind of like what is happening to me now? maybe.
I wasn't implying that I can lose weight with cardio because I'm more fit, but because I'm less: Doing cardio in that lactate threshold range 80-90% (150-170 HR) is not doable for 3-4 hours. (145 doesn't even break a sweat for me - and may be more muscle-reducing.) Maybe because I'm LESS fit, the cardio does for me what you/Rachel need from weight training.
On this thought, I read this book the other day. Scroll down to the pictures of the different "types" of women and men and the different types of cardio recommended for body type. This author seems to think that it is exactly related to body type and personality. I liked the content in this book quite well actually.
No Weight Loss with Running
Linear Mode
