spinning my wheels - what should I do?

[virginia]

Me: 28 yo female
5'6", 140 lbs
training age: 9 years

Ok, so I successfully dieted for 12 weeks and lost 12 lbs. I am still 10 lbs from my goal weight of 130 lbs. For the last 6 weeks, I have continued to try to diet and it's been two steps forward - two steps back... I keep undoing my caloric deficits with big eating every few days (by that I mean mostly clean foods, rationalizing nighttime eating beyond my maintenance level, which I figure is about 2200-2400). My weight is sticking right around 140. I have been trying to cut on about 1700 calories (tracking in fitday). That's how I lost the first 12 lbs. This past weekend I basically had a three day binge, consuming upwards of 4500 calories of sugar mostly, three days in a row, pretty much undoing all my efforts over the last two weeks. I've had problems with bingeing in the past, but have not had any issues since I started dieting until recently.

TRAINING: I had a full week off training the last week of August, and I feel that I've backed off training quite a bit, since I thought maybe that was triggering the binges. I am doing Turbulence Training full body weights + 20 mins HIIT three times a week, and walking 60 minutes on the other days, with at least one full day off completely.

QUESTION:

First, why am I overeating/bingeing?! I hate it and yet I can't seem to help myself... dieting too long? Calories too low? Training too hard still?

Second, where do I go from here? I really want to lose these last 10 lbs, but I feel like I'm spinning my wheels and the binge this weekend scared me (I don't want to gain back everything I've lost!)

Should I give up and maintain for a while and then try dieting again later this year? If so, how long should I wait before cutting again?

Should I suck it up and work on my dieting skills some more? I don't like to think that I don't have enough self-control to stick to a slight caloric reduction over time in order to lose a few lbs.

Should I try a different training program that is less intense - maybe OPT? Or stop doing the HIIT cardio and focus more on the lifting sessions with low intensity stuff?

I bought FLTS, and what Leigh said about getting in and getting it done hit home for me - I don't want to spend my life feeling like I'm dieting when I'm really just maintaining...

Additional info: I'm a two year thyroid cancer survivor and I gained the weight after my treatments ended. I have no thyroid and have struggled with my weight ever since, and I seem to overtrain/stress much easier now.

Please help me get these last few lbs off!!

[Leigh P.]

[quote]

Originally Posted by virginia

Me: 28 yo female
5'6", 140 lbs
training age: 9 years

Ok, so I successfully dieted for 12 weeks and lost 12 lbs. I am still 10 lbs from my goal weight of 130 lbs. For the last 6 weeks, I have continued to try to diet and it's been two steps forward - two steps back... I keep undoing my caloric deficits with big eating every few days (by that I mean mostly clean foods, rationalizing nighttime eating beyond my maintenance level, which I figure is about 2200-2400). My weight is sticking right around 140. I have been trying to cut on about 1700 calories (tracking in fitday). That's how I lost the first 12 lbs. This past weekend I basically had a three day binge, consuming upwards of 4500 calories of sugar mostly, three days in a row, pretty much undoing all my efforts over the last two weeks. I've had problems with bingeing in the past, but have not had any issues since I started dieting until recently.

This is pretty common. After dieting down there is a period of time where your body, in short, tries to return back to its normal state. Getting the weight off is only half the battle, beating the post weight loss binges is the other part. Best thing to do is try not to allow high insulin increases, keep eating at a balance, and if sensitive to carbs/sodium keep the levels in check for a few months.

QUESTION:

First, why am I overeating/bingeing?! I hate it and yet I can't seem to help myself... dieting too long? Calories too low? Training too hard still?

Again see above. Your training doesn't look overly aggressive. If having a super hardtime with hunger may want to back off on the intervals.

Second, where do I go from here? I really want to lose these last 10 lbs, but I feel like I'm spinning my wheels and the binge this weekend scared me (I don't want to gain back everything I've lost!)

Basically you have re-feed. I don't see any reason why you can't get back in there. Shoot for a bit of a lower calorie range, keep the protein high and give it a go. Keep it simple.

Should I give up and maintain for a while and then try dieting again later this year? If so, how long should I wait before cutting again?

That is a personal choice but I don't see any physical reasons to have to do that based on what you have shared.

Should I suck it up and work on my dieting skills some more? I don't like to think that I don't have enough self-control to stick to a slight caloric reduction over time in order to lose a few lbs.

Most don't, most are all or nothing. If you still want it then try to give it you all

Should I try a different training program that is less intense - maybe OPT? Or stop doing the HIIT cardio and focus more on the lifting sessions with low intensity stuff?

Again if having a problem with hunger, may want to back off on the HIIT or things in general that cause worse pangs. OPT may be good, as it is set up to try to keep that less severe but still a pretty fast paced program.

Additional info: I'm a two year thyroid cancer survivor and I gained the weight after my treatments ended. I have no thyroid and have struggled with my weight ever since, and I seem to overtrain/stress much easier now.

In addition to what put above (still holds true) I would also make sure to do the following.

-Make sure meds are on track, if your doctors can do that, get newer and cooler ones.
-You may this time need to take more frequent breaks so that the post diet drops with hormones aren't as bad. Perhaps a 2-3 weeks on 1 week off. Etc.
-Rest, rest, and more rest. You of all people need not to overly train and need not to ignore sleep and recovery work.

Hope that helps, good luck!

[virginia]

[quote=Leigh P.;618976]

This is pretty common. After dieting down there is a period of time where your body, in short, tries to return back to its normal state. Getting the weight off is only half the battle, beating the post weight loss binges is the other part. Best thing to do is try not to allow high insulin increases, keep eating at a balance, and if sensitive to carbs/sodium keep the levels in check for a few months.






Again see above. Your training doesn't look overly aggressive. If having a super hardtime with hunger may want to back off on the intervals.

Thanks, Leigh.

It's not so much hunger as in stomach growling hunger... more like wanting something more / needing to feel full... that's part of what is so frustrating, since I can convince myself to keep eating sometimes even when I'm full


[quote=Leigh P.;618976]

Basically you have re-feed. I don't see any reason why you can't get back in there. Shoot for a bit of a lower calorie range, keep the protein high and give it a go. Keep it simple..

it's interesting that you say shoot for lower calories. I mean, I get why you're saying that - all or nothing, don't mess around - but theoretically my thought would be the exact opposite... having trouble with bingeing = don't lower cals too much. I'm curious to see what might happen if I do approach it that way though. you've given me sometihng to think about...




[quote=Leigh P.;618976]

Again if having a problem with hunger, may want to back off on the HIIT or things in general that cause worse pangs. OPT may be good, as it is set up to try to keep that less severe but still a pretty fast paced program...

like I said, it's less hunger and more self-control / overcoming physiological urge to eat. I am kicking around the idea of trying OPT, though.

I just really like training hard! - but I guess I should prioritize the fat loss goal and then get back to whatever kind of training I want once that's done...


[quote=Leigh P.;618976]

In addition to what put above (still holds true) I would also make sure to do the following.

-Make sure meds are on track, if your doctors can do that, get newer and cooler ones.
-You may this time need to take more frequent breaks so that the post diet drops with hormones aren't as bad. Perhaps a 2-3 weeks on 1 week off. Etc.
-Rest, rest, and more rest. You of all people need not to overly train and need not to ignore sleep and recovery work.

Hope that helps, good luck!

thanks again for the tips!

with cancer, there is only one med - T4, and my levels have to stay suppressed, which might even be contributing to the problem. my T4 levels are basically HYPER -thyroid, which I know affects the adrenals, though I don't understand what effect that might have on fat loss efforts, except to say that I burn out faster than I used to and this might make me more prone to the bingeing when dieting?

I may give the 3 weeks on / one week off a try. and you're right I need to focus on resting more!

you've given me a lot to think about!

couple follow up questions though -

1. How do you balance rest with NEAT? I'm trying to keep my NEAT up, not lounge around resting! right? or don't worry about it so much?

2. What do I do after the binge? pretend it never happened or should I cut calories really low for a few days to undo the excess I took in?

THANKS!!

[Leigh P.]

[quote][quote=virginia;619018]

Originally Posted by Leigh P.

Thanks, Leigh.

It's not so much hunger as in stomach growling hunger... more like wanting something more / needing to feel full... that's part of what is so frustrating, since I can convince myself to keep eating sometimes even when I'm full

like I said, it's less hunger and more self-control / overcoming physiological urge to eat. I am kicking around the idea of trying OPT, though.

I just really like training hard! - but I guess I should prioritize the fat loss goal and then get back to whatever kind of training I want once that's done...

Yes I understand it may not be actual "hunger". If you read in the FTLS i discuss the difference between them. The trigger of binging can be brought on by the same things though.

For example, If you get a good nice sleep, spend all day at a spa, eat a nice fresh balanced meal of complete foods and then take a nice brisk walk in the late afternoon with your best friend or dog compainion you are a lot less likly to binge even if in a deficit.

Flip it to the next example...

5 hours of sleep, work sucked, at a bunch of fast sugar spiking carbs, low protein, did HIIT training with some superset lifting mixed with a PWO shake off even more sugar = Yeah best of luck to you on that and it would be amazing if you lasted more than a week.



[quote=Leigh P.;618976]

thanks again for the tips!

with cancer, there is only one med - T4, and my levels have to stay suppressed, which might even be contributing to the problem. my T4 levels are basically HYPER -thyroid, which I know affects the adrenals, though I don't understand what effect that might have on fat loss efforts, except to say that I burn out faster than I used to and this might make me more prone to the bingeing when dieting?

I would be curious to see your numbers, if you want to post them up feel free.

As far as the hunger/binge basically you have the shit end of the stick. You may read hyper but you are hypo. Your mood/signals/etc are all going to be all over the place. Best thing you can do is make sure that any extra help you can get, get. Supplements, meds, eats, all of it need to be a bit more anal than more.

Thyroid cancer is a really vicious cancer, you are one hell of a woman to beat and try to improve your comp and training. The problem is that you are going to need to keep that dedication, for life. I guess what I mean is "falling of the wagon" and ignoring good nutritional habits, overall, isn't going to work for you. You get less breaks, free parking, and you don't get to pass go with ease.

If you multis aren't up to par, make them.
If you healthy fats aren't at peak, get them there.
Make sure your electrolytes are good, minerals high, and overall a good healthy diet balance.
Sleep, sleep, and more sleep. Active recovery, don't overstimulate.

Basically make your world and nice and calm place and treat yourself like a queen and the fat loss will come much easier.

1. How do you balance rest with NEAT? I'm trying to keep my NEAT up, not lounge around resting! right? or don't worry about it so much?

Its a good question because it is a fine line. Where is that line drawn. Here is a method I judge it.

If you sit all day for work, make more of an effort for longer low impact steady state cardio and random burst of low grade activity.

If your day pretty moderate to hussle bussle. Just have a good 60 min steady state and rest the other time expect for maybe some stretching, breathing, and recovery work. Think about it logically and keep "gentle, low grade, lightly, non aggressive" and other type adjectives like that in your mind.

2. What do I do after the binge? pretend it never happened or should I cut calories really low for a few days to undo the excess I took in?

This is a tricky thing. It is a depends tings.

-If it happen once every so often, let it go.
-If it was just a proper re-feed and reset of hormones then enjoy, you did what you were supposed to do.
-If you are trying to lose fat and this sets you behind but you haven't been dieting down to aggressively then two choices...

Hope back on like normal, or kick it up a notch. I personally promote using the re=feed to your advantage to be able to go a little lower (in most cases).

[z4zach]

thanks for posting this- this is my struggle as well.

[virginia]

[quote=Leigh P.;619061]

Yes I understand it may not be actual "hunger". If you read in the FTLS i discuss the difference between them. The trigger of binging can be brought on by the same things though.

For example, If you get a good nice sleep, spend all day at a spa, eat a nice fresh balanced meal of complete foods and then take a nice brisk walk in the late afternoon with your best friend or dog compainion you are a lot less likly to binge even if in a deficit.

Flip it to the next example...

5 hours of sleep, work sucked, at a bunch of fast sugar spiking carbs, low protein, did HIIT training with some superset lifting mixed with a PWO shake off even more sugar = Yeah best of luck to you on that and it would be amazing if you lasted more than a week.

makes perfect sense now, thanks... the latter is more like me - I live in the city, commute on public transportation (crowded/hot/traffic/noise), work at a stressful job, often long hours, and train every morning.

and since the thyroid cancer, I have trouble sleeping, so often going on 5-6 hrs (even though I'm in bed for 8-9)... geesh! ok.

Originally Posted by Leigh P.

I would be curious to see your numbers, if you want to post them up feel free.

my TSH last draw was 0.12. that is up from 0.01 - my doc thinks that was TOO suppressed.

Originally Posted by Leigh P.

As far as the hunger/binge basically you have the shit end of the stick. You may read hyper but you are hypo. Your mood/signals/etc are all going to be all over the place. Best thing you can do is make sure that any extra help you can get, get. Supplements, meds, eats, all of it need to be a bit more anal than more. .

what supps would you recommend? currently I take:

greens+
10 g fish oil/day (carlson's)
5 g glutamine pwo
digestive enzymes
180 mgs GLA
vit D
probiotics
ZMA at night


...I have also used phosphatidyl serine, rhodiola and ashwaghanda (for stress control), but I'm out of them at the moment.

Originally Posted by Leigh P.

Thyroid cancer is a really vicious cancer, you are one hell of a woman to beat and try to improve your comp and training. The problem is that you are going to need to keep that dedication, for life. I guess what I mean is "falling of the wagon" and ignoring good nutritional habits, overall, isn't going to work for you. You get less breaks, free parking, and you don't get to pass go with ease. .

thanks! luckily I like to train and eat healthy... I don't like to binge, though fitness is sort of my hobby I just want to look like I am fit too, not just like the average girl, y'know...

Originally Posted by Leigh P.

If you multis aren't up to par, make them.
If you healthy fats aren't at peak, get them there.
Make sure your electrolytes are good, minerals high, and overall a good healthy diet balance.
Sleep, sleep, and more sleep. Active recovery, don't overstimulate.

Basically make your world and nice and calm place and treat yourself like a queen and the fat loss will come much easier. .

I don't take a multi b/c my diet is pretty solid, IMO - generally I hit a 40 P / 40 F / 20 C ratio or 30 P / 40 F / 30 C - I get dried out fast if I don't keep the fats up.

- Eating 6 x per day, protein + veggies,
- starches early in the day PWO, sometimes before - sources normally oats, pumpkin, peas, lentils
- try to limit fruits b/c the sugar seems to make me hungrier plus I have had troubles with candida

I'm generally eating 10-15 servings of veggies per day !!

sleep is troublesome, as i said

active recovery I am bad about... I definitely need to improve - taking some tips from FLTS recover (now if I could just make myself do it consistently) - prolly is one of the missing pieces!

Originally Posted by Leigh P.

If you sit all day for work, make more of an effort for longer low impact steady state cardio and random burst of low grade activity.

If your day pretty moderate to hussle bussle. Just have a good 60 min steady state and rest the other time expect for maybe some stretching, breathing, and recovery work. Think about it logically and keep "gentle, low grade, lightly, non aggressive" and other type adjectives like that in your mind..

I sit all day BUT I walk about 1 mile each way to/from and try to walk on my lunch break maybe 2x per week. I don't consider this "exercise". other than that I am pretty sedentary!

Originally Posted by Leigh P.

This is a tricky thing. It is a depends tings.

-If it happen once every so often, let it go.
-If it was just a proper re-feed and reset of hormones then enjoy, you did what you were supposed to do.
-If you are trying to lose fat and this sets you behind but you haven't been dieting down to aggressively then two choices...

Hope back on like normal, or kick it up a notch. I personally promote using the re=feed to your advantage to be able to go a little lower (in most cases).

Sometimes it is "proper" (though unplanned) - meaning clean foods in larger quantities

I'll shoot a little lower for this week and let you know how it goes!

thanks for your help!!

[maggieandmommy]

I have sleep issues, too, and Leigh told me that even if I can't sleep, that I need to try to lie in bed on my back doing NOTHING (not reading, not thinking, not watching tv--just trying to zone out and relax) for the other "sleep" hours.

[virginia]

Originally Posted by maggieandmommy

I have sleep issues, too, and Leigh told me that even if I can't sleep, that I need to try to lie in bed on my back doing NOTHING (not reading, not thinking, not watching tv--just trying to zone out and relax) for the other "sleep" hours.

yeah that is what i do!!