The Fat Loss TroubleshootThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. This section is led by Leigh Peele, author of "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot," the ultimate fat loss manual. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
So, as I have been doing OPT and just trying to improve diet in general I notice that I have a hard time going totally "clean" and avoiding processed foods. If not for convenience then for taste. Like I used to love soy latte and a scone every now and then. But I notice that once I have the scone then I want a bagel the next morning and then some pasta the next night and so on. It's like starchy, especially starchy sweet carbs, beget other starchy carbs. I am starting to learn that eating this kind of food ultimately sabotages fat loss for me as well because it seems to lead down a path of having those extra few hundred cals a day that obliterate a deficit.
I guess my question is, I realize that food can be wrapped up with emotional issues but is there also something to feeling like a physiological addiction to starchy, bready carbs? I grew up eating processed foods and lots of breads, crackers and it has been quite hard to cut back and cut out. But once I try to eat them more in moderation--like after a workout or sometimes as a planned refeed-- I want more and I notice it affects my mood. From reading posts it sounds like other people talk about this as being "carb sensitive". Is it all related to blood sugar spikes?
I am in the same boat, and I found that I am terrible at carb moderation. But I think that whether is is physiological, emotional or a blood sugar spike, etc etc, is not really relevant because it could be either, all, and any combination.
And so what, what do we get at the end of the day... A crutch.... I am carb sensitive.... I have a physiological addiction,
I do not think that anyone can give you a "correct " answer on the internet because there are so many personal variables involved. You will get some anecdotal information...
I think you need to make your own anecdote and see what works for you. Since one carb leads you to two carbs to three carbs, I would suggest that you not eat the first carb.
Quote:
But I notice that once I have the scone then I want a bagel the next morning and then some pasta the next night and so on.
Don't have the scone.
Cheers
Peter
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Peter
After all, diamonds are a girl's best friend…
I noticed the same thing and have weaned myself slowly from them (almost all of them) over time. Processed foods do make you crave other processed foods and the feeling is of never getting full or satisfied. And I think that all of us are raised with so much of them that we all have to recoginize what it does to us and then break the addiction. Or not if you are convinced that they do nothing to you. For me they are not good. That said, I do not do low carb. I eat 150 or so g a day of carbs from fruits and vegetable and whole grain/wheat carbs.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
There are a lot of variables that come into play and in truth it isn't entirely "case by case" but rather "reaction by reaction" and what you take in.
When coming out of a deficit/refeeding you are already prime for more insulin sensitivity. Meaning that when dieting down and then you eat more, you are going to feel more of a reaction from this vs when eating non-deficit. The body is trying to return to a state of homeostasis and to some degree wants to replace what it has lost. Anything that spurs more of a spike/reaction in the body to restore and feed the body is going to run with, so to speak.
The other side of it is what you are taking it and with what. A lot of time people dive in to the carbs, from dieting down, neglecting the same principals of combining high fiber, protein, good fat, etc. If you pack on a massive sugar treat you aren't necessarily carb addicted, you are on a sugar high, there is a difference.
A good test to see what is up and where you stand is to try various different methods of re-feeds and how you react. Next time try getting in more carbs, have them be rich in nutrients and combine them with protein and fats. Keep hydration high (another aspect often neglected that causes bigger stuff urges) and don't shovel it all in like a pig at a fall carnival.
Great info here - I find that I also get hungrier and hungrier if I just eat carbs (like popcorn, chips, crackers, pasta...).
If I also eat them with protein and fat (as part of a meal) I have less of that hunger effect... I still have to watch for it, but it's much less... so if you do want to include any of your fave foods as a treat or something (but again, not suggesting you eat 'em all the time!), if you eat it as part of a balanced meal (include protein, fat...) it might not set off your appetite quite as badly...
Seriously, why can't I figure out the multi-quote thing??
Anyway, Diamond Pete you make a good point about who cares WHY it just IS. This process has really opened my eyes to how much time I spend trying to figure out why why why my body reacts certain ways and past a certain point, it really just becomes a distraction. I have had experience over and over that when I eat a certain type of unbalanced meal I feel like crap physically and mentally. it's like a depressing effect. I get so fascinated by that when really, I should just avoid the meal. For example, i love hoagie sandwiches and baked chips. I planned it as a cheat meal b/c of cravings so even though it fit in with my daily calories and I enjoyed every single bite, I felt so bloated and my mood was affected.
I remember learning in one of my psych classes that for many people when they eat something that makes them feel bad physically they avoid it b/c of being conditioned to associate those flavors or the meal with the feeling of sickness----especially if you throw up or get sick otherwise from the meal. And I remember thinking....hmmm.....that doesn't really phase ME. hellooo......mind, body connection wake up. Long term thinking and fat loss is a whole new thing for me.
I will try the suggestions of a) being hydrated b) not stuffing my face like a pig at a carnival c) combining a treat with other healthy foods to balance more.
I have been experimenting with only eating foods from home and no processed foods for the past few days and I feel so much better and lighter. It's not the most practical thing b/c of my schedule but it's helping me to learn more about the way my body reacts and it's helpful to hear other's stories. thanks!
Great info here - I find that I also get hungrier and hungrier if I just eat carbs (like popcorn, chips, crackers, pasta...).
If I also eat them with protein and fat (as part of a meal) I have less of that hunger effect... I still have to watch for it, but it's much less... so if you do want to include any of your fave foods as a treat or something (but again, not suggesting you eat 'em all the time!), if you eat it as part of a balanced meal (include protein, fat...) it might not set off your appetite quite as badly...
For me, I'm sure it's psychological. Here's a good reason to eat dessert first. Eat the dessert, then move on to the savory meal, which nips the sweet craving in the bud. Mostly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcchuck
Seriously, why can't I figure out the multi-quote thing??
Click the multi-quote buttons for each posting you want to quote. As you click, they will change to red . When you're done and have them all clicked, hit the quote button to take you to reply screen. All the quotes will be there.
... Anyway, Diamond Pete you make a good point about who cares WHY it just IS. This process has really opened my eyes to how much time I spend trying to figure out why why why my body reacts certain ways and past a certain point, it really just becomes a distraction.
One of the interesting insights I am getting from doing REPAIR (day 10 now), is that it has taken another huge layer of the "emotional" aspect out of my eating food (I am an emotional eater, I eat for any emotion!! ). I am now feeding myself according to a prescription: "REPAIR Stage 1". The night before, or in the morning, I weigh my breakfast and 2 meals to take to work. Then I develop my evening 2 meals around what pro-fat-carb I have left.. (kind of like a check book that I want balanced at the end of each day). Oh, I am under in fat, have some almonds. Oh, I am over in carbs, have some protein.
I know in the next weeks that binge feeling espec at night will return, and the feeling of picking around, a piece of bread, cheese, a few of that.... (I did always write those things down, but the hunting around in my kitchen instead of sitting to do art, or balance my checkbook, or whatever activity I needed to be doing, was SUCH an EMOTIONAL and psychological PULL.)... I saw/felt that pull to food a little last night.
It is a real eye-opener to see the emotional urge completely gone!
As if a doctor had prescribed a certain fast for a week: ie, only liquid food, or no milk products, etc. and I am following the prescription. matter of fact. no almost ... maybe ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcchuck
I will try the suggestions of a) being hydrated b) not stuffing my face like a pig at a carnival c) combining a treat with other healthy foods to balance more.
I have been experimenting with only eating foods from home and no processed foods for the past few days and I feel so much better and lighter. It's not the most practical thing b/c of my schedule but it's helping me to learn more about the way my body reacts and it's helpful to hear other's stories. thanks!
mcchuck, remember to combine the treat with protein
You will form new habits and it will take less time
Hmmm, I am interested in that mind-body connection you mentioned - it is not unusual that you DON'T feel good and don't recall it next time you are craving that treat...What about really documenting/journaling/whateve r EXACTLY how badly you feel, and what you would do differently next time, and then go back and REVIEW that next time you are going to have a hoagie - like you might decide to have HALF the sandwich and add a salad, or get less fatty meats, or SOMETHING different so you don't feel so badly later.
Also, the follow-up cravings may be reduced, or you just have to make sure you have a rock solid PROCESS in place for follow up days - like having all your food already made and tupperware'd, having no additional cheat carb foods in the house, etc. Willpower I have heard described as a heroic moment - don't depend on it, but instead on processes and habits strung together. And accountability. Figure out what drives you to stay on plan (outside of planned cheats), and make sure you have that in place.
No expert at all - just thinking through this out loud (for myself as well!).
Karla
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"The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender."
.....Willpower I have heard described as a heroic moment - don't depend on it, but instead on processes and habits strung together.
Leigh, you say in FLTS "I have great will power and ignore it" [hunger feeling after fast burning carb] page 43. What drives your will power? Could you talk about what your mind says to you so that you stop after 1 carb treat?
Click the multi-quote buttons for each posting you want to quote. As you click, they will change to red . When you're done and have them all clicked, hit the quote button to take you to reply screen. All the quotes will be there.
Good luck!
I don't even want to tell you what kind of goofy, complicated, and unnecessary way that I was doing multiple quotes, but this sure does make that easier! Thanks, Roland!
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"Do you choose to simply know the path, or do you choose to walk it?"
Your body keeps an accurate journal regardless of what you write down...
Leigh, you say in FLTS "I have great will power and ignore it" [hunger feeling after fast burning carb] page 43. What drives your will power? Could you talk about what your mind says to you so that you stop after 1 carb treat?
Love to hear from anyone!
Thanks, Etana
You. All of you. Do you know how hard it would be to do this job and be overweight? I have the highest accountability in the world.
Granted, I can burn a lot of calories and have learned how to tweak my eating for what I need. However, and I will admit, the past 6 months for me have been really really hard dealing with two major rehabs back to back, I have put on a little chub myself just because I am not moving as much. I am human, not perfect at all. That being said because I maintain good eating habits and listen to my body it has kept things to +5 pounds vs +25 pounds.
The best advice I can offer is to really understand caloric burn in your own body and understand what you NEED. When you start to get the then you start to see the mental patterns of what you WANT.
There is also a lot to be said about our daily lives and stress. Remember, there is only one macro that blunts cortisol and freaking out. Da carbs. It isn't just mind games BUT it is all mind games heh.
You best chance, all the way around, is to eat good foods. This isn't about not being about to lose fat if you eat a doughnut, you can. However, eating that doughnut may be too much of a rush and you can't handle it. If that is the case, eat a potato instead...with chicken and broccoli.
Anyway, understand, I am not perfect, far from it. I just listen and apply the science to my life the best I can. I have been on this computer for 81 mins. I am about to leave to start the 2nd part of my training day. For those 81 mins I have burn roughly 81 calories because I am just sitting here, doing nothing. That means the whole time I get to eat a fucking egg, an egg. That sucks. It sucks because I have a dozen emails, lots of work, and general "stress". Don't get me wrong I LOOOOOVE my job and am happy as hell, but stress is stress. If you don't think i don't want to stuff my face with some powder doughnuts your wrong and sometimes I do, but right now it is either one doughnut or a chicken salad with the nutrients I need to heal my body. I have to make that good choice, not just for myself, but for everyone.
You know what I like, though? I like that you are real about it. I like that you admit that you struggle, too. It makes this more do-able to me. I read somewhere, too, that JP was feeling a little chub because of stress and general busy work stuff...I like it when trainers aren't perfect, either, because it shows that you are truly human and that you can truly grasp some of the struggles that we all face.
Of course, you wrote the book (literally) on fat loss, so you have the tools to know what to do to stop or change things when you get into one of those "human" situations, and I'm just glad that you share your knowledge with all of us!
Enjoy the rest of your training day, Leigh!
__________________
"Do you choose to simply know the path, or do you choose to walk it?"
Your body keeps an accurate journal regardless of what you write down...
Seriously, why can't I figure out the multi-quote thing??
Click on the + mark of the first one you want to quote, it will turn orange, then any others you want to quote, for the last post that you want to quote, click on the QUOTE button.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcchuck
Anyway, Diamond Pete you make a good point about who cares WHY it just IS. This process has really opened my eyes to how much time I spend trying to figure out why why why my body reacts certain ways and past a certain point, it really just becomes a distraction.
Glad you took it as I intended. After I posted it, then saw the following detailed posts, I began to wonder if I was sounding a bit like a grumpy party pooper.
Since I have been dropping into this section I have been harping on one theme so much because I think it is a good message. Don't analyze so much. I suspect some people many think I am here to rain on their parade, but at the risk of sounding even more like an orge.....
A general comment
We all understand the basics.... the thing we have to really wrap our brains around is that we are not special. We are not the 1/1,000,000 special case, etc...
I really think that we worry too much about the specifics and really need to watch the basics. For me there is a great disconnect when the diet is not in order before the macro analysis. That is the bottom line.
Again thanks for your comment, and try and stay away from that first carb!!!
Cheers
peter
__________________
Peter
After all, diamonds are a girl's best friend…
Hmmm, I am interested in that mind-body connection you mentioned - it is not unusual that you DON'T feel good and don't recall it next time you are craving that treat...What about really documenting/journaling/whateve r EXACTLY how badly you feel, and what you would do differently next time, and then go back and REVIEW that next time you are going to have a hoagie - like you might decide to have HALF the sandwich and add a salad, or get less fatty meats, or SOMETHING different so you don't feel so badly later.
Also, the follow-up cravings may be reduced, or you just have to make sure you have a rock solid PROCESS in place for follow up days - like having all your food already made and tupperware'd, having no additional cheat carb foods in the house, etc. Willpower I have heard described as a heroic moment - don't depend on it, but instead on processes and habits strung together. And accountability. Figure out what drives you to stay on plan (outside of planned cheats), and make sure you have that in place.
No expert at all - just thinking through this out loud (for myself as well!).
Karla
great points here. I think having a PLAN for after the treat is a great idea. Also, I think you are exactly right about learning what it is that makes me feel terrible and I think a smaller portion combined with a salad instead of chips would ease the bloat but satisfy the craving.
carb addiction?
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