The Fat Loss TroubleshootThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. This section is led by Leigh Peele, author of "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot," the ultimate fat loss manual. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
I have been doing the OPT plan the last week and according to the calorie calculations I should be at 1200 per day. Most days I was between 1200-1300 but I am feeling so hungry and weak on this intake and having trouble getting through workouts that are about half the intensity I was previously doing. I wound up having a binge after 4 days just out of feeling so deprived and starved. Now of course I feel totally demoralized and like a failure (which of course doesn't help the situation)
Should I decrease the deficit and just aim for a slower loss? I want to get it off as fast as I can but it seems like 1200 cals is just so low it is not sustainable for me. Or maybe I am just a wuss....
Perhaps you under estimated your activity level? I am on the OPT plan too and I have never felt weak or extremly starved. I do have a fairly large amount of fat to lose (50 pounds or so), so perhaps my body is using the fat stores to make up for the loss. This week I am doing the 4th week and doing a 40% deficit, and still haven't felt weak, but since it is a rest week my acitivity level is down. Granted I haven't been 100% compliant this week (see my logs). But on the days when I meet my calorie target I haven't felt any different.
So it makes me wonder what it the difference between my experience and yours.
Oh - and when I "messed" up on my eating it wasn't because I felt stared, it was just not being a very smart gal!
ok, hada second. Here is from a few days ago. Pretty much a typical day.
B: oatmeal made with skim milk and water and 1/4 scoop of vanilla protein powder mixed in topped with chopped nectarine
S: 2 egg whites w/1 TBSP hummus
L: big salad with veggies and water pack canned tuna with balsamic vinegar and Evoo dressing
S: Greek yogurt, small apple
PWO: protein shake
D: shrimp/veggie stir fry
treat: 1 square dark chocolate
I weigh/measure all my foods and log into Fitday. this day came out to just about 1300 calories.
Perhaps you under estimated your activity level? I am on the OPT plan too and I have never felt weak or extremly starved. I do have a fairly large amount of fat to lose (50 pounds or so), so perhaps my body is using the fat stores to make up for the loss. This week I am doing the 4th week and doing a 40% deficit, and still haven't felt weak, but since it is a rest week my acitivity level is down. Granted I haven't been 100% compliant this week (see my logs). But on the days when I meet my calorie target I haven't felt any different.
So it makes me wonder what it the difference between my experience and yours.
Oh - and when I "messed" up on my eating it wasn't because I felt stared, it was just not being a very smart gal!
I have about 10-15 lbs to lose. I took the activity quiz in the book twice so don't think I am underestimating my levels..but I did tend to answer conservatively if I was sort of in between the possible answers if that makes sense. One days I don't work out I get only 1080 calories which just seems unhealthy to me.
I have about 10-15 lbs to lose. I took the activity quiz in the book twice so don't think I am underestimating my levels..but I did tend to answer conservatively if I was sort of in between the possible answers if that makes sense. One days I don't work out I get only 1080 calories which just seems unhealthy to me.
I don't think you are suppose to adjust your levels on a day to day basis. The quiz is suppose to be your average and so you eat the same everyday. At least that is what I have been doing. So when rest week came, Leigh already lowered your calorie intake for you by going to 40% deficit so if you redid your activity mutipler you would end up TOO low. Or perhaps I misunderstood the plan.
I don't think you are suppose to adjust your levels on a day to day basis. The quiz is suppose to be your average and so you eat the same everyday. At least that is what I have been doing. So when rest week came, Leigh already lowered your calorie intake for you by going to 40% deficit so if you redid your activity mutipler you would end up TOO low. Or perhaps I misunderstood the plan.
I did the test twice, one for a workout day and one for not. It just makes more sense to me to eat a bit more on workout days than not. This is how it is structured int NROL for women and I like that approach.
I have about 10-15 lbs to lose. I took the activity quiz in the book twice so don't think I am underestimating my levels..but I did tend to answer conservatively if I was sort of in between the possible answers if that makes sense. One days I don't work out I get only 1080 calories which just seems unhealthy to me.
So, here's what I did. Every time I was between answers, since those answers correspond to point values, I simply was at the value in between… X.5. Those can add up, versus constantly rounding down so that your answer is also rounded down. If you did that for more than just one or 2, you could actually be in a different bracket.
Not only that, but each total ends up in a different range, so if you're at the high end of the range of total for the quiz, be at the high end of the multiplier suggested, which will therefore give you some more calories to work with.
if you have little fat left to lose - you might want to read Lyle's article on maximum dietary deficit - it's pretty interesting. Don't know if Leigh would comment on it or not.
I have been doing the OPT plan the last week and according to the calorie calculations I should be at 1200 per day. Most days I was between 1200-1300 but I am feeling so hungry and weak on this intake and having trouble getting through workouts that are about half the intensity I was previously doing. I wound up having a binge after 4 days just out of feeling so deprived and starved. Now of course I feel totally demoralized and like a failure (which of course doesn't help the situation)
Should I decrease the deficit and just aim for a slower loss? I want to get it off as fast as I can but it seems like 1200 cals is just so low it is not sustainable for me. Or maybe I am just a wuss....
Just so you know I read through all the other posts before I answered.
In the nicest way, everyone is over complicating it. There are really two things you can do.
-Don't do the training and just do the diet for a while and see how you do on that. you may just be too sensitive to the sugar drops, especially on the lower carbs.
and/or
At a point, and please don't take this as rude, you just have to suck it up.
What I mean is that when you are at a level that you are at...
-10/15 pounds left
-dieting down for a while
-at the point where your are giving my book a try because lets face it "warp" is so much more appealing
Then you probably suck at dieting. If you suck at dieting then don't aggravate yourself as much as possible and do the best you can to suck it up.
You know what eating healthy is, you are doing the best you can to get good protein, keep satiety up, etc.
All you can do now is just suck it up and push through it. If the hunger is too much to take or you are just too low of energy then there is always the theromogenic option. I don't in general throw that out there cause people don't "get it" but it is an option.
However, I recommend just try the diet part and see how that fits on you. A LOT of people have fantastic success with just...shocking enough...eating less
if you have little fat left to lose - you might want to read Lyle's article on maximum dietary deficit - it's pretty interesting. Don't know if Leigh would comment on it or not.
I can't think of anything of Lyle's that doesn't make sense to me, always one of my favorite articles.
Basically what it comes down too is that special combination AND how you are affected by a deficit.
Remember, everyone, this is supposed to SUCK! You are supposed to be tired and not feel good sometimes. What you are doing is nuts and your body is going to pay you back for it, so try to do the best you can to not piss it off.
Just so you know I read through all the other posts before I answered.
In the nicest way, everyone is over complicating it. There are really two things you can do.
-Don't do the training and just do the diet for a while and see how you do on that. you may just be too sensitive to the sugar drops, especially on the lower carbs.
and/or
At a point, and please don't take this as rude, you just have to suck it up.
What I mean is that when you are at a level that you are at...
-10/15 pounds left
-dieting down for a while
-at the point where your are giving my book a try because lets face it "warp" is so much more appealing
Then you probably suck at dieting. If you suck at dieting then don't aggravate yourself as much as possible and do the best you can to suck it up.
You know what eating healthy is, you are doing the best you can to get good protein, keep satiety up, etc.
All you can do now is just suck it up and push through it. If the hunger is too much to take or you are just too low of energy then there is always the theromogenic option. I don't in general throw that out there cause people don't "get it" but it is an option.
However, I recommend just try the diet part and see how that fits on you. A LOT of people have fantastic success with just...shocking enough...eating less
So if I understand this correctly you are suggesting just diet and NO exercise at all?
So if I understand this correctly you are suggesting just diet and NO exercise at all?
If you're so wiped your current method, you're likely passing on a lot of NEAT. If not, you're at least miserable enough to sabatoge all your hard work and suffering every time you end up bingeing on something.
So instead, just diet. Keep up normal NEAT, take walks, park farther away from buildings, etc, but don't do the workouts. It is an option.
For some people, often it happens to women, they just get hungrier from the intensity of exercise. The only real way to overcome this at a deficit is to not exercise. Just keep yourself at low intensity activity throughout the day, and have your exercise be the "read a book on the treadmill" exercise. Or, suck it up and keep doing what you're doing without the sabotaging part.
Having been at the 10 pounds left mark myself, and being one of those people who don't seem to be able to really ratchet up their burn rate to eat a good amount, I ended up having to eat at a very small deficit, and go really slow. Prolly would have been better served just dieting down while not bothering with the intense exercise.
If you're so wiped your current method, you're likely passing on a lot of NEAT. If not, you're at least miserable enough to sabatoge all your hard work and suffering every time you end up bingeing on something.
So instead, just diet. Keep up normal NEAT, take walks, park farther away from buildings, etc, but don't do the workouts. It is an option.
For some people, often it happens to women, they just get hungrier from the intensity of exercise. The only real way to overcome this at a deficit is to not exercise. Just keep yourself at low intensity activity throughout the day, and have your exercise be the "read a book on the treadmill" exercise. Or, suck it up and keep doing what you're doing without the sabotaging part.
Having been at the 10 pounds left mark myself, and being one of those people who don't seem to be able to really ratchet up their burn rate to eat a good amount, I ended up having to eat at a very small deficit, and go really slow. Prolly would have been better served just dieting down while not bothering with the intense exercise.
That makes sense. I do get a good amount of NEAT (walk 1 mile to/from work each way 5 days a week), try to walk around for 15-30 minutes at lunch time weather permitting, walk to do errands, etc.
I think I do much better with smaller deficits. I had an ED years ago in college. Got down to 87 lbs eating about 600 cals/day and I think the toll it took on me mentally and physically has really made dieting hard for me in both aspects. I never had a problem with binging until about 6 yrs ago when I decided to try and lose those "last 5 lbs" by doing something semi-drastic (South Beach) Wound up gaining about 25 in the process. So I REALLY relate your quote about gaining 30 trying to lose the last 5.
That makes sense. I do get a good amount of NEAT (walk 1 mile to/from work each way 5 days a week), try to walk around for 15-30 minutes at lunch time weather permitting, walk to do errands, etc.
I think I do much better with smaller deficits. I had an ED years ago in college. Got down to 87 lbs eating about 600 cals/day and I think the toll it took on me mentally and physically has really made dieting hard for me in both aspects. I never had a problem with binging until about 6 yrs ago when I decided to try and lose those "last 5 lbs" by doing something semi-drastic (South Beach) Wound up gaining about 25 in the process. So I REALLY relate your quote about gaining 30 trying to lose the last 5.
Aofie made a really great post.
Basically, and I think you got it I just wanted to spell it out more is that if you get to the point you are at and the lots of training and hardcore diet thing hasn't worked for you, but going at a snails pace leads to frustration, then it is better to just hit at things on a moderate level.
Moderate DOES NOT have to mean slow. Would you rather lose 1lb a week, leading to 4 lbs in a month, end at 12 pounds in 12 weeks?
Or would you like to take a year losing 2 lbs because you were either too scared of the deficit or training to hard and just having no choice but to re-feed your body.
Trust the process, it works. Once there find "lara's" method that has to work for you.
Leigh, any plans on putting FLTS into a hard copy book format?
Since there is going to be a 3rd edition (we knew there would be) to the book, I am thinking of providing a hardcopy/ebook choice. Currently it isn't an option but in the future (year) I hope both the FLTS and Metarepair will be available hardcopy style.
Basically, and I think you got it I just wanted to spell it out more is that if you get to the point you are at and the lots of training and hardcore diet thing hasn't worked for you, but going at a snails pace leads to frustration, then it is better to just hit at things on a moderate level.
Moderate DOES NOT have to mean slow. Would you rather lose 1lb a week, leading to 4 lbs in a month, end at 12 pounds in 12 weeks?
Or would you like to take a year losing 2 lbs because you were either too scared of the deficit or training to hard and just having no choice but to re-feed your body.
Trust the process, it works. Once there find "lara's" method that has to work for you.
Thank's Leigh. I guess when I look over the past the only healthy, sustainable method that has worked is a pretty minimal deficit (about 300 calories) which yields about .5 lbs/week loss. I am hypothyroid so not sure if that makes a difference? It is controlled with medicine but does that still impact metabolic rate I wonder?
Thank's Leigh. I guess when I look over the past the only healthy, sustainable method that has worked is a pretty minimal deficit (about 300 calories) which yields about .5 lbs/week loss. I am hypothyroid so not sure if that makes a difference? It is controlled with medicine but does that still impact metabolic rate I wonder?
Obviously this is going to make differences, particularly in how easily you are going to be affected by the dieting down. However, if being treated you should be achieving with pretty similar effort as others.
Some of my fastest transformations were with clients who are hypothyroid. If you treat it right things should be fine.
For the record the MetaBurn program is a little more delicate and in tune with a more sensitive endocrine system and if you find OPT too aggressive you might want to give that a try.
Regardless, again, don't overcomplicate it. Try just dieting down and talking some walks and see what happens, you might be suprised.
I guess it all depends on what you want more:
1 do you want to be wiped out from exercise alone and eat at maintenance in order to stay 'sane'
2 do you want to be wiped out from exercise + diet together and eat slightly below maintenance in order to stay 'sane'
3 do you want to be wiped out from just diet and be able eat far below maintenance
After a long time of thinking how exercise could add in creating a deficit (which it really does), a lot of people including myself are coming to the conclusion that once you pass a certain boundary, appetite just increases exponentially and maintenance only linearly with exercise. To recover from hard exercise , esp. from HIIT and metabolic work, you some of us just have to eat so much extra food, that it barely makes a difference.
The thing is: what do you want more.. do you love working out more than to drop weight? In that case, don't even think about a big deficit. If you prefer to drop weight, drop the hard exercise.
That's more or less the same message as you'll find in Lyle's RFL/PSMF book: create a huge deficit and do the bare minimum as exercise. But don't try both.. it backfires.
I guess it all depends on what you want more:
1 do you want to be wiped out from exercise alone and eat at maintenance in order to stay 'sane'
2 do you want to be wiped out from exercise + diet together and eat slightly below maintenance in order to stay 'sane'
3 do you want to be wiped out from just diet and be able eat far below maintenance
After a long time of thinking how exercise could add in creating a deficit (which it really does), a lot of people including myself are coming to the conclusion that once you pass a certain boundary, appetite just increases exponentially and maintenance only linearly with exercise. To recover from hard exercise , esp. from HIIT and metabolic work, you some of us just have to eat so much extra food, that it barely makes a difference.
The thing is: what do you want more.. do you love working out more than to drop weight? In that case, don't even think about a big deficit. If you prefer to drop weight, drop the hard exercise.
That's more or less the same message as you'll find in Lyle's RFL/PSMF book: create a huge deficit and do the bare minimum as exercise. But don't try both.. it backfires.
Ok, another recommendation to slow down on the exercise. I think I will give it a go. I really enjoy exercise and it definitely helps my stress/moods but will slow things down to more of a "reading a magazine on the treadmill" level, stop the HIIT, and stick with some moderate weights 1-2 x/week to help preserve some of the muscle/strength I have built up from the first 5 stages of NROL4W.
I also think I do best when I don't let the carbs get lower than 35-40%. I have never done well on low-carb plans in the long run.
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