The Fat Loss TroubleshootThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. This section is led by Leigh Peele, author of "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot," the ultimate fat loss manual. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
I think to some degree you have to ask yourself what wins? Are you a strength trainer or are you in fat loss and are just going to get it done.
Fat loss has become a lifestyle and it shouldn't be.
Fat loss has become a recurring playing field and training ground when it should just be a quick visit and a handicap.
Training while TRYING to be in a constant deficit is becoming far to common.
The problem with what I see a lot of people around here doing is you are going hard at two goals and one is going to give, and that is usually the fat loss. Let's be honest, it is a lot easier to focus on a 45 min training session then to live in strong deficit.
I will say again that fat loss is not a time to break 1RM's. Fat loss is not a time to become the best version of your training self. Fat loss is a time to maintain that best version of yourself and get through it without doing damage.
Question then is, why do we focus on trying to increase muscle mass in a fat loss phase?
The average person these days only starts training to lose fat. Before that time they never touched a weight on any real level. Obviously any new training is going to increase muscle mass, deficit or not.
Mix that new mass with a loss of fat and the outcome is a nice "tone" body. However, the forest is being not only blocked by the trees but Smokey the Bear and his 2nd and 3rd cousins.
NROL and NROL4W is NOT a fat loss program.
It is a training program and has things you can implement to use for fat loss...for some. It is really aggressive and tough, the average person will find it hard if they have a larger amount of fat to lose to stand up and take the needs of that program for a long time in a deficit. Mostly they will find a way to feed themselves just enough to not burn out to bad but always too much to see any real fat loss.
Some people, not all, but some just aren't meant to train like that during fat loss. Some people need to just diet down, keep up their protein, keep up the light cardio and general activity, do a LITTLE maintenance training for KEEPING LBM and get it done.
Sometimes metabolic training just means "makes me really freaking tired and hungry". This kind of training can make it really easy to turn inward to yourself and say "Eh I worked out so hard today, I don't want to get run down, so I will hit 1800, that is still a 500 deficit."
Well what if you NEAT has lowered from all that aggressive training?
What if your calories are off by just 170 calories?
What if that 500 turns to 289?
Welcome to being a fat loss lifer where just one day out of two weeks of being non compliance over 500 or so calories sets you back.
Any good coach would say, if it isn't working for you, stop doing it and try something that does.
Fat loss is a broken bone to your training system. Get in, set the cast, and get it off.
I am just thankful that some of you have been kind enough to let me sign it.
Ding, ding, ding! Wonderful post, Leigh. I have been doing some major recollection and questioning what my training/eating has been doing for me and it hasn't been helping me get to my goal. I should be a lot closer than I am.
I bought the FLTS package last night and am reading it today. It is good stuff and I have been wanting to get it and last night decided it was time.
I appreciate this thread so much. Lots of my questions were answered.
__________________
Ginger
"The miracle isn't that I finished. The miracle is that I had the courage to start." ~ John Bingham
Leigh, what are your thoughts on a day of fasting or semi-fasting after a few days of no-compliance and general yucky and bad eating. I ask this because I've gone through a few rough days dealing with a tragedy and my eating habits went downhill (either I didn't eat at all or I ate crap). My body feels it, too. I was thinking of taking a couple of days to just chill out with a semi-fast (maybe just a couple of protein shakes and a piece of fruit or something) just to get my body cleaned out of the general crappiness. Or maybe even a total fast. Thoughts?
Man I can't believe how this thread has turned out!
I wanted to come back and give an update. Leigh I hope you don't mind if I share some of our messages together? If it is a problem please let me know.
After I finished the FLTS I will admit I was let down. Please keep reading because I was crazy wrong guys! I am just telling you my progression.
I knew that my problems and that things were more complicated then the book made it. I contacted Leigh with this message below.
Quote:
Hey this is _____ from the JP board (TBDX00).
I finished your book and I want to be honest and say I don't think that it covers my problems. I was wondering since I spent that kind of money on your product if you could give me some advice.
*I am so embarrassed guys for being such a DICK! I shared my life story basically. I finished it with...*
As you can see I haven't lost weight in a while and I need a program that will give me better results. Your book is fine for beginners but I am not a beginner. Could you please point me towards the right direction that is more of what someone on my level would need.
*DICK!*
Here is what Leigh wrote me back.
Quote:
Hey _____,
First off I am sorry if you were in anyway unhappy with the product. I have put much effort in providing material that was both scientifically sound and inspiring. If you feel the product misrepresents itself please let me know and I will do the best I can to troubleshoot my own personal promotion techniques.
As to your questions/problem...
Question: Why are you under the assumption that different people require different acts for fat loss? Meaning, do you feel that at some point a persons body metamorphisis into a different stucture and it no longer applies to energy in and out?
Fat loss is not a opinion, it is what it is.
Now, perhaps your energy is a bit stunted if you are dealing with metabolic issues, if so then the other book might help you with that. However, even in that case fat loss can still be achieved, just not as easy unless following a low enough calorie diet.
You have to ask yourself, what makes you so special? Why do you think that you are different?
Are you counting all of your intake and is it the right intake?
If you say yes then you should be losing fat, period.
If I stuck you in a closest for 30 days with nothing but an apple a day and water, will you lose weight?
Bet you would. Bet you would be one skinny dude.
How much more advanced do you need it to get then this? Understand I am not trying to be rude, truthfully. I am trying to prove a point.
If you want some SUPER SECRET overly complicated BS, hey there are tons of those out there, have fun at it.
Point blank if you aren't losing, you aren't mixing your training and intake properly, my books help you do that. They may not be overly exciting, but if you think they need to be, then you still don't get it and you need to read them again.
So sit down, open up your mind, forget all you think you know, and learn for the first time what you should have. It is all you need to know and then some.
At first that email sucked but I did it. I read the book again and I took a hard look at myself. It was the hardest thing I have ever done since I have started this.
I changed my calories and started doing more treadmill stuff after my lifting.
Today I am at 193. That is down from 210 when I started the book not even a whole month ago. My abs are popping for the first time!!!
I wanted to come here to say that and say that I thought I knew it all and was a victim of hype.
THANK YOU LEIGH AND I AM SORRY FOR BEING A DICK! YOU ROCK AND YOU CHANGED THINGS FOR ME FOREVER!
Hey Everyone, I am going to get to answering these questions. I am just collecting everything to save on my own that way if the board gets funky I have the questions and answers saved.
Might take till mid-day tomorrow but I will post it up.
Man I can't believe how this thread has turned out!
I wanted to come back and give an update. Leigh I hope you don't mind if I share some of our messages together? If it is a problem please let me know.
After I finished the FLTS I will admit I was let down. Please keep reading because I was crazy wrong guys! I am just telling you my progression.
I knew that my problems and that things were more complicated then the book made it. I contacted Leigh with this message below.
Here is what Leigh wrote me back.
At first that email sucked but I did it. I read the book again and I took a hard look at myself. It was the hardest thing I have ever done since I have started this.
I changed my calories and started doing more treadmill stuff after my lifting.
Today I am at 193. That is down from 210 when I started the book not even a whole month ago. My abs are popping for the first time!!!
I wanted to come here to say that and say that I thought I knew it all and was a victim of hype.
THANK YOU LEIGH AND I AM SORRY FOR BEING A DICK! YOU ROCK AND YOU CHANGED THINGS FOR ME FOREVER!
Thats is great....can i ask what it was that changed after reading it a 2nd time? What did you different that worked for you?
didn't bacardio just post in here with another question ...?
This whole disappearing/reappearing post thing is driving me nuts. The post I deleted was the same post I added for Leigh at the end of page 3. When I added the second one, the first one wasn't being displayed. After I posted the second one, both posts were displaying. So I killed the second myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserve
It's a shame to see people thinking before or just after they speak.
no its nothing like that. I always "try" to think my posts through before posting them. Not that it always works out for me . Though I will admit, with conversations I have had after posting the question. I am thinking of a higher rep sets than 15.
This is the one I was trying to get answers for:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacardio
Leigh -
Now that the server is back up, I can finally ask some more question for you to clarify..
Following your recommendations, I have moved my cardio work from HIIT to elliptical training at my AT, but my question deals with the resistance training.
I have been doing the NROL Fat Loss I, which which starts at 3 sets of 15 reps supersets of 2 exercises with s RI of 75 secs. As you progress through the program, your reps and and rest times are reduced until you get to 10 reps with a 45 sec RI.
You stated above that my resistance program should be high reps with shorter rest times. What would be your suggestion, I was think of lifting Tues and Thurs, 3 sets of 15+ with a RI of 60 secs.
Is that going to work for endurance and fat loss??
Is that going to be too stress/impact for my joints??
Just wanted to add to this thread that after one week of my personal program from Leigh, I can see clearly where all my estimating was leading to eating a lot more than I thought.
Here was my moment. I was packing my lunch and cutting up broccoli. I figured I had about a cup, or 25 cals. I put in on the scale and it was an 82 calorie serving. Now I try to eat 5 servings minimum of fruits and veggies a day, and why not be liberal with them, because they are healthy, right? So 5 x (82 - 25) is an extra 285 cals per day.
Yes, weighing everything is kind of sucking. But, I'm down 4.8 lbs in 6 days. Now is all that fat - certainly not. But my point is, I can see progress and it is worth it!
Now that the server is back up, I can finally ask some more question for you to clarify..
Following your recommendations, I have moved my cardio work from HIIT to elliptical training at my AT, but my question deals with the resistance training.
I have been doing the NROL Fat Loss I, which which starts at 3 sets of 15 reps supersets of 2 exercises with s RI of 75 secs. As you progress through the program, your reps and and rest times are reduced until you get to 10 reps with a 45 sec RI.
You stated above that my resistance program should be high reps with shorter rest times. What would be your suggestion, I was think of lifting Tues and Thurs, 3 sets of 15 with a RI of 60 secs.
Is that going to work for endurance and fat loss??
Is that going to be too stress/impact for my joints??
Thanks again.
Question and this is a good general one as well...
What are your current goals?
If I take a look at your thread, just the first post of your log, you have list out the following...
Quote:
Goals:
- Wt: below 170lbs, which should start to get me cut
- Get my strength back to the 300lb bench
- Increase my flexibility, so I can hold a side-kick above my head (not certain if I can pull that one off)
-Increase stamina and conditioning for martial arts.
Of these what is going to be the hardest to do mixed with the other?
The strength.
What is next?
The stamina and conditioning.
What is easiest?
Fat loss and flexibility.
Does anything about your needs in training right now say to do deadlifts? Does anything in your program right now even really say weights in general?
Not to say you can't use weight but if your training needs is for control of body movement, balance, flexibility, and aerobic endurance what good is a specific lifting program to maintain strength and minor hypertrophy in a fat loss phase going to do you?
I have worked with quite a few MMA trainees and we do jump ropes, push ups, rock and rolls, endless endless mobility drills (golfer pick ups, tin mans, BW side lunges, leg cradles) and balance endurance/strength training like get ups, pistols, static kick holds...In short specific training for fighting needs.
If you need to be able to hold your leg in the air while standing on one foot, then practice standing on one foot! That doesn't mean building strength, core work, and postural correction shouldn't be a part of things too but in the right times and order. Work on increasing maximum strength when you have the calories and recovery to give. This would be a great time to just focus on balance training, aerobic conditioning, and flexibility work.
If you are going to use a pre-made program I would honestly look more a crossfit training style, Body weight work, Cosgrove has some great martial arts conditioning stuff out, Rosstraining.com is great as well, NO BS approach.
I would get your mind to make a priority list.
-Fat loss-Because that is the handicap, get it done.
-Flexibility-Easiest to achieve and work on during fat loss programs and helps keep injury at bay.
-Endurance/Stamina
-Maintain/slight increase of strength
So look at that, then look at your training. Does it match that? If not, tweak until it does.
Leigh, what are your thoughts on a day of fasting or semi-fasting after a few days of no-compliance and general yucky and bad eating. I ask this because I've gone through a few rough days dealing with a tragedy and my eating habits went downhill (either I didn't eat at all or I ate crap). My body feels it, too. I was thinking of taking a couple of days to just chill out with a semi-fast (maybe just a couple of protein shakes and a piece of fruit or something) just to get my body cleaned out of the general crappiness. Or maybe even a total fast. Thoughts?
This is a good question.
You often read people say "don't worry about a slip up, just go back to normal and move on."
Well this is good in theory but what if the slip up just erase the whole week of deficit you just busted you ass for, you are feeling guilty and are about 10 secs away from throwing in the towel?
Answer?
Starve for a day THEN get back on track. And by starve I mean achieve the most aggressive deficit you can within a sane amount.
Man I can't believe how this thread has turned out!
I wanted to come back and give an update. Leigh I hope you don't mind if I share some of our messages together? If it is a problem please let me know.
After I finished the FLTS I will admit I was let down. Please keep reading because I was crazy wrong guys! I am just telling you my progression.
I knew that my problems and that things were more complicated then the book made it. I contacted Leigh with this message below.
Here is what Leigh wrote me back.
At first that email sucked but I did it. I read the book again and I took a hard look at myself. It was the hardest thing I have ever done since I have started this.
I changed my calories and started doing more treadmill stuff after my lifting.
Today I am at 193. That is down from 210 when I started the book not even a whole month ago. My abs are popping for the first time!!!
I wanted to come here to say that and say that I thought I knew it all and was a victim of hype.
THANK YOU LEIGH AND I AM SORRY FOR BEING A DICK! YOU ROCK AND YOU CHANGED THINGS FOR ME FOREVER!
Heh I don't really know what to say but I didn't think you were being a "dick."
Here is the thing...
If you get the book and you think "Pfft, I knew all that" then (and I don't mean this in a mean way) you don't "get it." The small chance is too that you are in a different kind of a place health wise and may need the Metabolic Repair. I can assure you THAT is not stuff the most know because I can point out people specifically who are doing what that book says not to and they aren't getting results. Not their fault, but you can't be stubborn and drive yourself into the ground, it doesn't work.
I am really glad though it clicked for you, ha obviously it clicked well. (For the record from what he shared there was a case here for a big ass water whoosh, I can't take credit for all that "weight")
This is what these books are about. They are about give you the behind the scene details of a process that has been WAY too complicated. I will never apologize for keeping it real.
I often think of that scene in The Firm where Tom cruise hand them mail fraud.
-Increase stamina and conditioning for martial arts.
Of these what is going to be the hardest to do mixed with the other?
The strength.
What is next?
The stamina and conditioning.
What is easiest?
Fat loss and flexibility.
Does anything about your needs in training right now say to do deadlifts? Does anything in your program right now even really say weights in general?
Not to say you can't use weight but if your training needs is for control of body movement, balance, flexibility, and aerobic endurance what good is a specific lifting program to maintain strength and minor hypertrophy in a fat loss phase going to do you?
I have worked with quite a few MMA trainees and we do jump ropes, push ups, rock and rolls, endless endless mobility drills (golfer pick ups, tin mans, BW side lunges, leg cradles) and balance endurance/strength training like get ups, pistols, static kick holds...In short specific training for fighting needs.
If you need to be able to hold your leg in the air while standing on one foot, then practice standing on one foot! That doesn't mean building strength, core work, and postural correction shouldn't be a part of things too but in the right times and order. Work on increasing maximum strength when you have the calories and recovery to give. This would be a great time to just focus on balance training, aerobic conditioning, and flexibility work.
If you are going to use a pre-made program I would honestly look more a crossfit training style, Body weight work, Cosgrove has some great martial arts conditioning stuff out, Rosstraining.com is great as well, NO BS approach.
I would get your mind to make a priority list.
-Fat loss-Because that is the handicap, get it done.
-Flexibility-Easiest to achieve and work on during fat loss programs and helps keep injury at bay.
-Endurance/Stamina
-Maintain/slight increase of strength
So look at that, then look at your training. Does it match that? If not, tweak until it does.
Yeap, you are absolutely correct, when I started back in January, I had goals that didn't work together. And yesterday, after I posted the above post, I started to think more of what Steve Cotter was talking about at the Summit (sorry, you didn't make it, I was SO looking forward to meeting you), and realized my training philosophy and what I really should have were completely out of whack.
You pretty much summed up what I have been thinking. Fat Loss is my biggest handicap right now, and I don't need to be picking up 200 lb objects 10 to 15 times. What I really need to do is to be able to pick up a 20 to 30 lb object 200 times.
So I will go look into those other programs you were talking about.
Thanks a bunch Leigh!!! You're a gem!!!
Edit:
Since it happened to yesterday, I need to ask before I fall into a land of depression. I completely pooched my salad last night and ended up eating 40 calories OVER my maintenance level, which of course is 600+ above my deficit level I have been trying to keep. Does this have lasting effect other than putting me a day behind (and depressing me).
"a case here for a big ass water whoosh, I can't take credit for all that "weight")"
Leigh- ( shari3boys btw asking u yet another question )
By water woosh what do you mean? I have seen people that are doing Met. Repair saying that they are keeping there water in check? I must have missed something and need to re- read CAN WE GET TOO MUCH water? Or is that not what you mean by WATER WOOSH! hehe
I am assuming she means that a lot of loss at the beginning was water weight. Sort of like when I first started TNT and lost several pounds in the first week or so. Then, it eventually evened out to about 1 to 1.5 lbs a week. Leigh, you correct me if I am wrong!
You often read people say "don't worry about a slip up, just go back to normal and move on."
Well this is good in theory but what if the slip up just erase the whole week of deficit you just busted you ass for, you are feeling guilty and are about 10 secs away from throwing in the towel?
Answer?
Starve for a day THEN get back on track. And by starve I mean achieve the most aggressive deficit you can within a sane amount.
What is a sane amount?
You should know that one
Thanks, Leigh, this is exactly what I was hoping you would say and exactly what I did.
"a case here for a big ass water whoosh, I can't take credit for all that "weight")"
Leigh- ( shari3boys btw asking u yet another question )
By water woosh what do you mean? I have seen people that are doing Met. Repair saying that they are keeping there water in check? I must have missed something and need to re- read CAN WE GET TOO MUCH water? Or is that not what you mean by WATER WOOSH! hehe
Often people retain water when they're dehydrated, even a little bit. Subcutaneous water can be a bitch and makes you look like ass. By drinking enough water and having a balanced bunch of electrolytes, your body can let go of the water it's holding on to (different from the water stored with glycogen that you lose after workouts or with low carb diets.).
"a case here for a big ass water whoosh, I can't take credit for all that "weight")"
Leigh- ( shari3boys btw asking u yet another question )
By water woosh what do you mean? I have seen people that are doing Met. Repair saying that they are keeping there water in check? I must have missed something and need to re- read CAN WE GET TOO MUCH water? Or is that not what you mean by WATER WOOSH! hehe
It is possible to get too much water. In fact, I have recently been underoing tests for low blood sodium levels. They ruled out some of the usual suspects (namely kidney and adrenal disease) but at this point my doc thinks it might be from consuming too much water (for me at least) I probably drink a gallon a day of water and have been advised to cut back.
Hmmm...interesting
When i lived in Tucson Arizona people always talked about water poisoning in having too much
I drink at least a gallon a day also
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaraT
It is possible to get too much water. In fact, I have recently been underoing tests for low blood sodium levels. They ruled out some of the usual suspects (namely kidney and adrenal disease) but at this point my doc thinks it might be from consuming too much water (for me at least) I probably drink a gallon a day of water and have been advised to cut back.
It is possible to get too much water. In fact, I have recently been underoing tests for low blood sodium levels. They ruled out some of the usual suspects (namely kidney and adrenal disease) but at this point my doc thinks it might be from consuming too much water (for me at least) I probably drink a gallon a day of water and have been advised to cut back.
Are you over-consuming water? Or under-consuming sodium?
I'm actually curious.
Drinking water, usually more than that mythical "average american" drinks is beneficial in many ways. So if you're finding that your sodium (or any other electrolyte) levels are too low, why is cutting back on water preferred over consuming more salt?
. Though I will admit, with conversations I have had after posting the question. I am thinking of a higher rep sets than 15.
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