The Fat Loss TroubleshootThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. This section is led by Leigh Peele, author of "The Fat Loss Troubleshoot," the ultimate fat loss manual. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
Hi Guys, I bought the book as well and have read it, so I'd thought I add my opinion.
First I think it cut's to the chase, it's no nonesense and truthful. I does not give false illusions that losing fat is easy and you can eat, eat, eat and still lose. It's a reality check for anyone thinking they have tried everything and still can't lose.
Although I don't by tons of diet books (in fact I rarely to) I do read alot on the web about different books and what always bugs me is the marketing ploy that this diet or that diet will be easy, eat anything, fat will fall off quickly etc...
There is none of this I feel with Leigh's book.
Now the following is strictly based on my situation, and circumstances, but I came away from the book thinking that I'm not sure if all the tracking and fairly low cals (for me I feel) are worth it.
You see I am pretty darn happy with the way I look most days (except for the awful days I think all women have now and then) I am not thin, I probably could lose those last 10lbs, which is what made me by the book, but I am healthy. I get compliments and at 43 I can still turn a few heads. Now beleive me I still complain about the extra fat on my belly or the fact that my butt is definately heading south, but when I think about eliminating the pleasures that probably keep those 10lbs on me (dinner with friends, wine, chocolate) I am not sure it's worth it. I am one of those people who eat really well thru the week, but let go on the weekends.
So when I finished the book I asked myself if all the effort is really worth it for me. I have not decided yet.
But what is great though is that I know the effort it takes, and I will know how to do it if I decide.
I bought FLTS today and have skimmed through it all (need to go back and read in more closely) and agree it is great info.
One question I have with the OPT plan--The deficits recommended put me at 1100-1200 calories per day. That is too low no? I always heard never to go below 1200. I lift 3 x/week and cardio 3-4 x/week (combo of HIIT and SS) and having a hard time fathoming working out on such a low cal intake?
I bought FLTS today and have skimmed through it all (need to go back and read in more closely) and agree it is great info.
One question I have with the OPT plan--The deficits recommended put me at 1100-1200 calories per day. That is too low no? I always heard never to go below 1200. I lift 3 x/week and cardio 3-4 x/week (combo of HIIT and SS) and having a hard time fathoming working out on such a low cal intake?
Lara - are you caculating your activity level correctly? With that amount of activity, your mutipler should be pretty high, so I don't see how you could come up with that low of calories. You must be pretty close to your target weight currently at this point to be that low, I would think.
Lara - are you caculating your activity level correctly? With that amount of activity, your mutipler should be pretty high, so I don't see how you could come up with that low of calories. You must be pretty close to your target weight currently at this point to be that low, I would think.
I took the "quiz" but probably should do it again to make sure I added correctly (math not my strong suit) I am 120, looking to get to 112 lbs so not a large amount but at barely 5'2 even just a few lbs make a big difference in how I look (and feel)
Just to clarify--you take your BMR and then find the correct multiplier. Then take that number and multiply by .35 to get the 35% deficit and subtract that from the main number? Is that right?
I can deal with some hunger it is just the fatigue/lack of energy that comes with lower calories that gets me. Considering cutting back some on the exercise to accomodate (which seems so wrong to me, ya know) but I really want to lose this fat and sometimes it seems like the more training I do the harder it is to lose fat.
I just purchased the FLT book and it was a very enlightening read but I have one major point of confusion. In figuring out my CURRENT activity level, I am a 1.42 based on the quiz (desk job & 6 resistance/aerobic weekly workouts). This would remain the same on OPT week 1-3, however, on week 4 when cutting out the cardio & weight training, wouldn't the activity level change (I calculate 1.2) which puts my calories at 950 or so based on BMR x 1.2. I am 5'6" 128 pounds. I know the closer to goal the tougher it is but I am confused about exactly how to tweak the program for this.
I just purchased the FLT book and it was a very enlightening read but I have one major point of confusion. In figuring out my CURRENT activity level, I am a 1.42 based on the quiz (desk job & 6 resistance/aerobic weekly workouts). This would remain the same on OPT week 1-3, however, on week 4 when cutting out the cardio & weight training, wouldn't the activity level change (I calculate 1.2) which puts my calories at 950 or so based on BMR x 1.2. I am 5'6" 128 pounds. I know the closer to goal the tougher it is but I am confused about exactly how to tweak the program for this.
I think it is accounted for by having to follow a higher deficit during the recovery week?
are you sure the activity factor was only 1.42 with six days of exercise? Did you arrive at the number through the quiz? I found the quiz helpful because it takes other things into account like how you spend your weekends, time at home, mode of commuting, etc.
Susan sent me a personal email but I wanted to put my response here because it basically answers a very general question....
You have to understand that what we eat is dictated by how much we move.
If you don't move as much you don't get to eat as much. We don't just "deserve" food. Food is our fuel.
I have the best metabolism but if I just sit all day doing work on the computer I am lucky to burn much higher than my BMR (at 1420). However, if I move around all day working out, training people, shopping, etc then I can burn upward to 3000 calories in a day easy.
So if I sat all day and was eating for that deficit only then I am going to be eating about 1000 calories a day. However, if trying to cut if doing normal work I am going to be cutting at 2000 calories a day.
No "1" persons calorie burn is the same, you are the only true judge of your movement. That being said, my activity formula is one of the best there is and I can say that will full confidence. So it isn't about your being at the stubborn area so much as it is you don't move on low level activity very much. So you have two options...
Up your general NEAT and low activity so that your activity level rises therefor giving you more of a multiply/dedication or stick to the low calories. Either way it will get things done.
Remember a deficit isn't opinion, you have to hit. When at a low weight AND low activity level it gets _*intense.*_ Most can't take it and hence why this is a never ending battle that we will speak on for years to come
Hi Guys, I bought the book as well and have read it, so I'd thought I add my opinion.
First I think it cut's to the chase, it's no nonesense and truthful. I does not give false illusions that losing fat is easy and you can eat, eat, eat and still lose. It's a reality check for anyone thinking they have tried everything and still can't lose.
Although I don't by tons of diet books (in fact I rarely to) I do read alot on the web about different books and what always bugs me is the marketing ploy that this diet or that diet will be easy, eat anything, fat will fall off quickly etc...
There is none of this I feel with Leigh's book.
Now the following is strictly based on my situation, and circumstances, but I came away from the book thinking that I'm not sure if all the tracking and fairly low cals (for me I feel) are worth it.
You see I am pretty darn happy with the way I look most days (except for the awful days I think all women have now and then) I am not thin, I probably could lose those last 10lbs, which is what made me by the book, but I am healthy. I get compliments and at 43 I can still turn a few heads. Now beleive me I still complain about the extra fat on my belly or the fact that my butt is definately heading south, but when I think about eliminating the pleasures that probably keep those 10lbs on me (dinner with friends, wine, chocolate) I am not sure it's worth it. I am one of those people who eat really well thru the week, but let go on the weekends.
So when I finished the book I asked myself if all the effort is really worth it for me. I have not decided yet.
But what is great though is that I know the effort it takes, and I will know how to do it if I decide.
That to me is what Leigh's book is about.
I just wanted to say I think this is a awesome little review and response and speaking of real logic and priority to life. Thank you.
Susan sent me a personal email but I wanted to put my response here because it basically answers a very general question....
You have to understand that what we eat is dictated by how much we move.
If you don't move as much you don't get to eat as much. We don't just "deserve" food. Food is our fuel.
I have the best metabolism but if I just sit all day doing work on the computer I am lucky to burn much higher than my BMR (at 1420). However, if I move around all day working out, training people, shopping, etc then I can burn upward to 3000 calories in a day easy.
So if I sat all day and was eating for that deficit only then I am going to be eating about 1000 calories a day. However, if trying to cut if doing normal work I am going to be cutting at 2000 calories a day.
No "1" persons calorie burn is the same, you are the only true judge of your movement. That being said, my activity formula is one of the best there is and I can say that will full confidence. So it isn't about your being at the stubborn area so much as it is you don't move on low level activity very much. So you have two options...
Up your general NEAT and low activity so that your activity level rises therefor giving you more of a multiply/dedication or stick to the low calories. Either way it will get things done.
Remember a deficit isn't opinion, you have to hit. When at a low weight AND low activity level it gets _*intense.*_ Most can't take it and hence why this is a never ending battle that we will speak on for years to come
That makes a lot of sense!
My issue I am struggling with is that 1200 calories with a lot of activity (both NEAT and training) sounds so low. And that is what I came up with to be in a deficit after taking the quiz (which I agree is wonderful!) My job is sedentary but I walk one mile to/from work plus walk a lot in my daily life (live in city and walk everywhere) plus weights 3/week and cardio 3/week.
I know I know..I probably just need to shut up and get over the fear and try it before bitching so much
Leigh was so nice and responsive to my questions. Thanks so much. I also love Annie's response. This really hits a cord with me as well. I think however I am ready to just get the work done so I can stop obsessing. At 43 I sort of feel if I don't do it now I am just going to continue heading in the wrong direction. And, 1000 calories a day is no field trip but my maintenance calories are very comfortable so if I can just get over this little hump...
Leigh was so nice and responsive to my questions. Thanks so much. I also love Annie's response. This really hits a cord with me as well. I think however I am ready to just get the work done so I can stop obsessing. At 43 I sort of feel if I don't do it now I am just going to continue heading in the wrong direction. And, 1000 calories a day is no field trip but my maintenance calories are very comfortable so if I can just get over this little hump...
Susan that is what I told myself this AM--almost anything is doable for a period of time. I am nearing 40 and finding it so much harder now than just 5 years ago And I simply can not do very low carb so really like that this program is NOT like that.
Keep in mind that low calories are much more pleasant if you eat lots of volumous low-calorie items like veggies! I have been working with Leigh for about 2 months now and my lowest calorie days were 1300. They were not as painful as I had anticipated because I eat a LOT of veggies. A lot. Sometimes so much I can barely eat them all. And I have only been hungry, true stomach-growling physical hunger, a few times.
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Life's a Journey ... Enjoy the Ride!
I am going to hide a secret code within the page now and if found that will be the prize because I am maxed out on bribes at the moment. Giving the cow away for free here!
I am going to hide a secret code within the page now and if found that will be the prize because I am maxed out on bribes at the moment. Giving the cow away for free here!
There are to many ways to go with this one. I'm sure there are number of people madly looking through their books. Right now!
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Past performance is not indicative of future success.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
this gives me 1780. based on the quiz (30 points) I have an activity level of 1.45-1.55. I chose the higher number due to the amount of work I do at night at home that the quiz didn't catch (lots of home remodeling). That gives me the 2760.
So if that is my BMR, if I want to eat in "deficit", how far do a dare to go? Since I think I am only 10 lbs off my goal weight (BF is roughly 17% currently), I know I shouldn't reduce too far, but what should it be? I figure counting 1000 cals is too much, but I am not certain.
Seems to me that 1# per week (500 kcal / day) wouldn't be too bad - that'd be roughly 25-30% (doing math in my head!) of your BMR... are you counting workout calories too? I eat a bit more on workout days, but still stay at an overall deficit...
Seems to me that 1# per week (500 kcal / day) wouldn't be too bad - that'd be roughly 25-30% (doing math in my head!) of your BMR... are you counting workout calories too? I eat a bit more on workout days, but still stay at an overall deficit...
No that was strictly cutting food calories. Workout expenditures would be in addition to "food cuts"
No that was strictly cutting food calories. Workout expenditures would be in addition to "food cuts"
I'm sure others will chime in here, but my original suggestion of 500 kcal deficit with allowance for maybe an extra 200-ish kcal on lifting days (I make it up with an extra PWO shake) stands... If you want to lose quicker, you can try to cut more but you'll be pretty hungry...
Also sounds like you have plenty of NEAT in your day, so that should help...
this gives me 1780. based on the quiz (30 points) I have an activity level of 1.45-1.55. I chose the higher number due to the amount of work I do at night at home that the quiz didn't catch (lots of home remodeling). That gives me the 2760.
So if that is my BMR, if I want to eat in "deficit", how far do a dare to go? Since I think I am only 10 lbs off my goal weight (BF is roughly 17% currently), I know I shouldn't reduce too far, but what should it be? I figure counting 1000 cals is too much, but I am not certain.
Thanks
Obviously when doing one on one work I try and tailor it more specific but truth of the matter is, as much as possible, my philoshpy is "get in and get out" as fast as you can.
There is nothing wrong with losing 2lbs per week or more, if you are smart about it.
Basically you have to look at the following factors:
-How low your current fat level is?
If you are at a lower level then in general harsher cuts but more frequent breaks seem to work better (note: in general).
-How sensitive are you to hunger and the need to re-feed?
If you get hungry really easy or are prone to natural re-feed binges then a more moderate pace may be wise.
-How sensitive is your system to slowing down of neat?
If you find you slow general activity more when dieting down or are more sensitive to fatigue then you have two options.
1. Stay aware and keep your NEAT up.
2. Use a less aggressive approach.
-How long have you been dieting down previously to this deciding point?
If you have already been dieting down (aggressively) for sometime then make sure to get a solid break and re-feed in before jumping into a strict and harsher program.
-How fast and easy have you lost in the past (if you have that to gauge)
If you lose fat in general pretty easy then get in and get it done as fast as you can so that you can work on maintaining or increasing LBM.
-How low your current fat level is?
If you are at a lower level then in general harsher cuts but more frequent breaks seem to work better (note: in general).
If you mean Body Fat, I am roughly 17%.
If you are referring to the amount of fats I have been eating, I have been 50-60% of my intake, which I plan to drop to around 37% of my daily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh P.
-How sensitive are you to hunger and the need to re-feed?
If you get hungry really easy or are prone to natural re-feed binges then a more moderate pace may be wise.
When I started the fitness challenge I was eating around 1800-2000 cals and having one of those "I am always hungry days" every 3-4 days. I have moved my calories up to round 2200 and maybe have 1 day a week, where I can't seem to enough to eat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh P.
-How sensitive is your system to slowing down of neat?
If you find you slow general activity more when dieting down or are more sensitive to fatigue then you have two options.
1. Stay aware and keep your NEAT up.
2. Use a less aggressive approach.
I don't seem to slow down my activity at all when reducing my calories, this maybe due to the fact that I have to much to do at night and can't afford to take the night off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh P.
-How long have you been dieting down previously to this deciding point?
If you have already been dieting down (aggressively) for sometime then make sure to get a solid break and re-feed in before jumping into a strict and harsher program.
From Jan 08 through March I was eating roughly 1800-2000 calories daily. April and May I moved up to 2200 calories. I didn't track calories while at the Summit, so I guess you could call that a re-feed. I have been eating pretty much to the TNT diet plan A, so low carb. I would have to say, I have been 80% faithful to the plan. I have blown a few days. I normally track my eating and that information is posted in my Fitness Challenge Training Log
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh P.
-How fast and easy have you lost in the past (if you have that to gauge)
If you lose fat in general pretty easy then get in and get it done as fast as you can so that you can work on maintaining or increasing LBM.
From Jan through March, I lost rough 14lbs, since then maybe 2 lbs. I would say I don't lose fat quickly, I can bulk up (muscle and fat) quickly, but not lose fat. My workouts are also posted in my Fitness Challenge Training Log.
Hope I answered those properly, and they make sense.
If you mean Body Fat, I am roughly 17%.
If you are referring to the amount of fats I have been eating, I have been 50-60% of my intake, which I plan to drop to around 37% of my daily.
When I started the fitness challenge I was eating around 1800-2000 cals and having one of those "I am always hungry days" every 3-4 days. I have moved my calories up to round 2200 and maybe have 1 day a week, where I can't seem to enough to eat.
I don't seem to slow down my activity at all when reducing my calories, this maybe due to the fact that I have to much to do at night and can't afford to take the night off.
From Jan 08 through March I was eating roughly 1800-2000 calories daily. April and May I moved up to 2200 calories. I didn't track calories while at the Summit, so I guess you could call that a re-feed. I have been eating pretty much to the TNT diet plan A, so low carb. I would have to say, I have been 80% faithful to the plan. I have blown a few days. I normally track my eating and that information is posted in my Fitness Challenge Training Log
From Jan through March, I lost rough 14lbs, since then maybe 2 lbs. I would say I don't lose fat quickly, I can bulk up (muscle and fat) quickly, but not lose fat. My workouts are also posted in my Fitness Challenge Training Log.
Hope I answered those properly, and they make sense.
Thanks Leigh
Alight the best thing that you can do for yourself is really read over what all you listed here because therein lies the answers. I will show it to you through my eyes...
-Coming off of low/no carb and moving towards carbs will bring a big spike in hunger for the first 2 weeks or so depending on sensitivity.
-Training for a specific performance need AND fat loss.
-Lots of general movement specifically at night time when the body doesn't want to.
-A automatic instinct to re-feed and stop the efforts of fat loss. Good for survival, bad for fat loss. In short you re-fill and stop the effort you have made and keep spinning your wheels.
-80% faithful means 0% if that feed is too high. BIGGEST THING TO REMEMBER...A DAY CAN CANCEL OUT A WEEK, hell two weeks. Eating is eating, if you store you store. The compliance rule only fits to MACROS not calories. You only have so much time to make a deficit and to start to release your stores, keep it on track and it will happen much faster BUT don't take it so low that you fall off the wagon and re-feed yourself.
-I would say based on looking at your log you underestimate your activity, your cut to harsh, and this leads to binging. If you weren't re-feeding statements like this...
I have increased the weight that I have been lifting, but I am not losing BF
...wouldn't be happening. On that low of constant carbs and calories with what you do in a day fat should be dropping and energy progression like that wouldn't come with such ease. Remember removing something from body=sucks.
Also, from a training standpoint I wonder of this statement...
This means I REALLY have to work on my muscular and cardio endurance (the test is usually 2-3 hours long).
So my plan is to do HIIT on Monday, Weds, and Fridays with a modified Fat Loss I on Tuesday and Thursday.
Why do interval training? I think it is the wrong attack for your training needs both for fat loss AND for your competition. You are going to burn out and be much more likely to injure. Add to that there is no way you are going to drive your hormones and blood sugar levels nuts (which you have shown from past experience) so why aggravate it.
If the test is endurance, training for endurance! Do proper training, with solid pre-post and if need DURING nutrition. Overall calories are king here and your performance will be a lot better for it.
So that is my take, sorry for the delayed reply. Hope that gives you a better view on my end. The main take home is..
Ease into how severe you cut to get a read on yourself. If you aren't that hungry and feel you can take more, take it down more. If you start to find yourself slacking on measuring or sneaking food then keep it where it is at and just tighten your efforts and will power.
-Coming off of low/no carb and moving towards carbs will bring a big spike in hunger for the first 2 weeks or so depending on sensitivity.
Noted and will watch out for
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh P.
-Training for a specific performance need AND fat loss.
Yeah, I suppose that won't work. Hard to create muscle endurance in a calorie deficit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh P.
-Lots of general movement specifically at night time when the body doesn't want to.
Sorry, I am confused with this one
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh P.
-A automatic instinct to re-feed and stop the efforts of fat loss. Good for survival, bad for fat loss. In short you re-fill and stop the effort you have made and keep spinning your wheels.
-80% faithful means 0% if that feed is too high. BIGGEST THING TO REMEMBER...A DAY CAN CANCEL OUT A WEEK, hell two weeks. Eating is eating, if you store you store. The compliance rule only fits to MACROS not calories. You only have so much time to make a deficit and to start to release your stores, keep it on track and it will happen much faster BUT don't take it so low that you fall off the wagon and re-feed yourself.
My bad.. After re-reading what I wrote I should have explained myself better and my be screwing up the terminology.
While I did have days I could keep eating and never felt full. I didn't, I stayed with my calorie goal. When I stated I was 80% faithful, I was referring to macros, not calorie goal. I would guess since January I have been over my calorie limit maybe a dozen times and over my BMR half of those. Still not great, but I will start tracking better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh P.
-I would say based on looking at your log you underestimate your activity, your cut to harsh, and this leads to binging. If you weren't re-feeding statements like this...
I have increased the weight that I have been lifting, but I am not losing BF
...wouldn't be happening. On that low of constant carbs and calories with what you do in a day fat should be dropping and energy progression like that wouldn't come with such ease. Remember removing something from body=sucks.
I see what you are talking about.. I will have to go back and see what my nutrient was like before that week of lifting. I had one week, during the NROL fat loss I phase that the lifting went smooth, I believe it was workouts #3 and #4 of both A and B. Not certain if I can contribute this to the lower of the set reps or not. During this part of the workout routine, the reps per set were reduced from 15 to 12 while reducing the RI from 75 seconds to 60 seconds. But as my log shows a did add weight during most workouts, which I guess doesn't make sense, if you can't gain any strength while in a calorie deficit.
I did feel like the quiz didn't ask me about my night time habits enough when it gave me my activity number, but thought maybe I was reading too much into it. Here is a basic week of my life
Job: computer programmer so I am sitting on my butt all day
Workouts: I was going to the gym at noon and lifting for 45-60 minutes on M, W, and F. I followed the NROL FLI routine to a T for rest intervals and all, so it was pretty serious lifting.
Night: Karate (TKD) on Tues and Thurs (roughly 45-60 minutes each night). TKD Sparring Friday (60 - 90 minutes, actually matches maybe half that time). Usually some type of home project, home carpentry, painting, cleaning, yard work for a couple hours, then relaxing.
Weekends: Sat mornings kickboxing 45-60 minutes. Usually some type of home project, home carpentry, painting, cleaning, yard work for rest of the weekend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh P.
Also, from a training standpoint I wonder of this statement...
This means I REALLY have to work on my muscular and cardio endurance (the test is usually 2-3 hours long).
So my plan is to do HIIT on Monday, Weds, and Fridays with a modified Fat Loss I on Tuesday and Thursday.
Why do interval training? I think it is the wrong attack for your training needs both for fat loss AND for your competition. You are going to burn out and be much more likely to injure. Add to that there is no way you are going to drive your hormones and blood sugar levels nuts (which you have shown from past experience) so why aggravate it.
If the test is endurance, training for endurance! Do proper training, with solid pre-post and if need DURING nutrition. Overall calories are king here and your performance will be a lot better for it.
What do you suggest for endurance both muscular and cardio?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh P.
Ease into how severe you cut to get a read on yourself. If you aren't that hungry and feel you can take more, take it down more. If you start to find yourself slacking on measuring or sneaking food then keep it where it is at and just tighten your efforts and will power.
OK, I will watch this
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh P.
So that is my take, sorry for the delayed reply. Hope that gives you a better view on my end.
Thanks SOOOOOO much for your help. I will heed and follow your recommendations. If it would make more sense to continue this conversation in a PM, we can, I don't want to bog down this thread, due to my confusion/ineptness.
IMO (but I find myself really doing it), we sit on our butts even more when we are eating less. The less we eat and the more we workout, the more tired and fatigued we are, so we slow down on taking out the trash, walking the dog, fixing things around the house, etc. Putting them off until some mysterious phantom time when we will have more energy...
My house is cleaner when I'm not dieting down, for instance. The last month, I've made a conscious effort to change that and keep up my after work activity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacardio
Thanks SOOOOOO much for your help. I will heed and follow your recommendations. If it would make more sense to continue this conversation in a PM, we can, I don't want to bog down this thread, due to my confusion/ineptness.
My vote is to keep it here, since we're all learning. I learned the above ^^ a while back from a thread just like this.
And I simply can not do very low carb so really like that this program is NOT like that.
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