Fat Loss: Diet, Training, and LifestyleThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
Background: I used to be a skinny triathlete and mountain bike racer. Now I am 47 and 25 lbs heavier than when I was in my peak triathlon condition and don't like the way it feels. I have tried lots of things over the past several years to lose some weight (fat), but none have worked.
- Trained for and ran a marathon. Didn't lose any weight.
- Trained for and completed a triathlon, working out like a madman. Didn't lose any weight.
- Made positive diet changes -- no more sodas, no more sugar in my coffee, fewer baked goods, eating more fruits and veggies, smaller portions. Didn't lose any weight.
- My wife suggested WeightWatchers online. I followed it and stayed well within my points limits, but didn't lose any weight.
- I tried the South Beach Diet. On Phase 1 I did lose about 4 lbs in 2 weeks, but when I went to Phase II the weight came back. The good thing was that it did reduce my cravings for sweets and carbs and I tried new foods and learned new ways to make healthy meals.
Now I am doing the NROL programs, completed FLI and FLII but my diet wasn't very good. 2 weeks ago I started a modified South Beach & clean eating diet and I am now doing NROL Strength I. I have actually gained a pound in the last 2 weeks (essentially no change). There is no noticeable change in muscle size or fat amount or fit of my clothes.
I am concentrating on eating more veggies. I have been preparing vegetables every night and eating a lot of salads for lunch. I also drink v8 juice during mid-morning and mid-afternoon snacks. I have also been eating a lot of lean protein -- eggs, skim milk, lowfat cheese, turkey, chicken, and I drink a protein shake after my weighlifting workouts.
I don't want to count calories or weigh food. For WeightWatchers I tracked and entered all my food portions, calories, fiber, etc., and I just hate doing that. I now just choose whole foods, avoiding sugar, carbs that aren't whole grain, fried foods, and processed foods.
Here is a typical day of eating for me. I am 5'7" and 165 lbs.
- Breakfast was some Kashi Go-Lean cereal with skim milk, and coffee
- Mid-morning I ate a boiled egg and drank some v8 juice (to get some vegetables in the morning)
- Did a Strength 1 workout during my lunch break.
- Lunch was a salad with lots of veggies, garbanzo beans, and fat-free Catalina dressing, and a Meso-tech protein shake
- Afternoon snack was a nectarine and some celery with hummus and some string cheese
- For dinner I sauteed some mixed vegetables in olive oil with some seasoning, and crumbled some cashews on top, and also had a moderate portion of roasted chicken.
- Before bed I had some decaf hot tea with agave nectar in it. I know the agave nectar is a sugar, but it satsfies my desire for dessert and it doesn't cause a blood sugar spike like honey or processed sugar. Besides, I've been sugar free otherwise.
Next week I will add in some more cardio. I haven't run or biked in a couple of months, and I plan to do NROL Strength 1 every other day and run or bike on the days in between.
Well, if you aren't losing weight, then you are eating too many calories. It all boils down to one simple equation: calories in vs calories out. So, you are eating in a caloric surplus or right at maintenance now. If you drop your calories by 500 a day, you will be on track to lose one pound a week.
Have you had a checkup and had your thryoid levels tested or been checked for insulin resistance? Unless you are eating way over your maintenance calories that increase is probably water. How much of these foods are you eating? Have you determined your mainteance calories? You could simply be overeating. I have thyroid issues so I sympathize with your frustration.
Have you determined your maintenance calories? You could simply be overeating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by missjane
Well, if you aren't losing weight, then you are eating too many calories. It all boils down to one simple equation: calories in vs calories out. So, you are eating in a caloric surplus or right at maintenance now. If you drop your calories by 500 a day, you will be on track to lose one pound a week.
I have found that the math of what WeightWatchers or any other recommendation of my maintenance calories is not accurate for ME. I had to drop my calories way below what I expected and immediately started losing weight. I didn't lose at 1500, 1400, 1300, or 1200. Now I am eating 900-1000cal and losing pretty nicely for the past 2-4 weeks. (fingers crossed for this week's weigh in). So, too bad news, but your calories may be too high for what your particular body needs.
What does it mean when you say "some" next to your food, like "some string cheese?"
What are your activities during the day other than your exercise? How sedentary a life do you have?
The other way to deal with this is with your daily burn. What many of us have learned here, is that the daily hour of exercise is nothing in the picture of what you burn during a day. I have a computer job and I sit at my laptop in the evening while I watch TV, and all those hours I burn the same amount as when I sleep. NOT very much, 60 cal per hour. I have a spike of energy burn when I prepare for work and commute in the a.m., another spike of energy when I commute home from work and am on my feet preparing dinner. I have seen this in a chart from this GowearFit armband monitor many of us have bought. But you don't need to buy it.
To lose more weight without dropping your food too low, or maybe even WITH dropping your food lower, you need to do more NEAT. Wash the car. Clean your basement. Clean your garage. Do some yardwork. Plant fall bulbs in your garden. Clean the bathroom. Go for a hike. Walk 30-60min more every day. Go shopping. Go shopping with your wife. You'd fall off your seat to learn that walking around in the mall for 3 hours burns much more calories than 1 hour in the gym.
NEAT is non-exercise general moving around during the day.
It's usually simple, more calories burned, less calories eaten.
I resisted this for years, thinking 1200 calories should do it for me; I "shouldn't have to" go lower than that.
Thanks for the replies. I realize that if I'm not losing weight and eating healthy foods, then I am probably taking in too many calories. However, I was pretty much maintaining weight before I started eliminating calorie-dense foods like sugar, baked goods, and fried foods, so it seems like I should be at a deficit now. I have also reduced portion sizes.
When I say "some" string cheese, I mean one stick of low-fat mozzarella.
I am pretty active in general. I have a desk job, usually in front of a computer, but at home I almost never sit still. I rarely watch TV. I do lots of house projects and yard work and such. I always take stairs instead of an elevator. Stuff like that. I just moved into a new house, so I have been doing a lot of lifting boxes, moving furniture, and other house projects. I also have a 2-year old boy, and he keeps me moving too, plus picking him up and carrying him is work. When I take him to a playground I chase him around and I swing on the monkey bars and sometimes even do some split squats and pushups while he plays.
I guess I just need to eat less, but I don't want to do an extreme diet that I won't be able to maintain in the long term, and I want to make sure that I'm eating enough to recover from my strength workouts and to continue to gain some strength (or at least not lose it).
From reading your initial post, it appears that you have doing a modified South Beach diet for 2 weeks. My initial response to this is that anything you do, you have to give a good month to see anything happen. If you are truly sticking to what you're logging, then if there is no loss by one month of following this diet, then I would re-think it or (gasp) count some calories.
I'm not a counter either, but every once in a while I will log stuff and be meticulous for a few days or a week. It is always an eye-opening experience and I will say "wow, I didn't realize that had so many calories." Then I am good to go and don't have to be as anal. But at some point you will need to look carefully at the calories, figure approximately what you need to take in. It can't be escaped if you can't get results from not counting.
You may need to re-think your endurance exercise and emphasize the weights; don't forget pictures and measurements 'cause there may be things going on that you can't even see. If you don't measure it to begin with, it's pretty hard to identify progress.
You may need to re-think your endurance exercise and emphasize the weights; don't forget pictures and measurements 'cause there may be things going on that you can't even see. If you don't measure it to begin with, it's pretty hard to identify progress.
I have been emphasizing the weights. Today was actually the first day I've run in 2 months, and I haven't been on the bike for 2 months or in the pool since March. Part of that was due to being very busy selling and buying a house, so my limited exercise time was spent doing the NROL workouts.
However, it would seem that adding some cardio to the weightlifting should help burn fat. HIIT immediately after the weightlifting is probably ideal, but I'm not sure I can fit it in during my lunchtime workouts. I also need to build a running base again before I start hard intervals so that I don't get injured, so I plan to run a couple of times a week and bike once or twice a week between the NROL days.
And that's a good point about measuring. I'm currently going by weight and how my clothes fit, and there seems to be no change there. My muscles don't seem to be any bigger but they do seem to be more solid or more dense, if that makes sense, so it is possible that I've gained some lean mass. I need to start measuring and tracking body fat.
If you burn intramuscular fat it can make your muscles appear more "dense".
While doing something like Intervals might give you some burn for the time you are doing them (and perhaps a small boost for the next few hours) you have to consider what the other costs might be.
One individual might be fine. Another might slow down the rest of the day (or the next) - e.g. make less trips upstairs, cut the dogs walk from 30 mins to 15 mins, veg in front of the TV instead of doing a project in the garage. Another person might eat just a little bigger portion of dinner and have a nighttime snack when none was planned -- all done without being aware of it but it could be enough to offset anything gained caloriewise from the intervals.
Not that intervals are not great for conditioning - but the plan to burn off some more calories with them can backfire in those two ways. You don't really burn as much as you think you do and you can easily offset it without realizing it. It is almost easier to control if you eat 300 calories less rather than try to burn 300 more with intervals.
On the other hand, adding something like a long walk for an hour might burn the same as 20 minutes of intervals will later - but without the dead-tired or over-hungry consequences.
Its not about calories in vs calories out...well not exactly
Guys...remember...
A calorie isnt a calorie. There is more to this than pure calories in vs calories out as the type of calorie you consume is more important. We know that it takes more calories to burn a gram of protein (9) than a gram of fat or carb (4). Therefore you are better off really to have a slightly higher protein diet for weight loss due to the effects on the metabolism whist trying to digest that protein. Also, you cant say that 1000 calories of saturated fat has the same effect as 1000 calories of lean protein and vegetables....get my drift.
In relation to the interval training....we need to remember that any type of training in the gym will burn calories for the duration of time you spend doing that exercise however its the other 23 hours of the day where we get the biggest bang for our buck. Metabolic resistance training and interval training are some of the best ways to cause a 'metabolic disturbance' than most anything else. You could actually do 20 minutes of interval training..burn half the calories over regular cardio training for 60 minutes however burn more calories overall in the remaining 23 - 48 hours post exercise due to its effect on metabolism.
Regular steady state has limited effect on post exercise metabolism but does burn more calories whilst performing the exercise. But once you stop...so does the fat burning...not with interval or metabolic resistance training..the fat burning continues for up to 48 hours post exercise.
By the way....if you include some heavy weight movements to the beginning of your routine...the science shows that you will eliminate or greatly reduce any muscle loss when doing interval or anyother type of training. But you have to go heavy.
Ive lost almost 13kgs (26.8lbs) in the past 6 months with 70% going in the past 8 weeks and I am as strong now as I was then...pushing the same or more weight...that proves I havent lost any muscle mass whilst losing all that fat. Happy days.
A calorie isnt a calorie. There is more to this than pure calories in vs calories out as the type of calorie you consume is more important. We know that it takes more calories to burn a gram of protein (9) than a gram of fat or carb (4). Therefore you are better off really to have a slightly higher protein diet for weight loss due to the effects on the metabolism whist trying to digest that protein. Also, you cant say that 1000 calories of saturated fat has the same effect as 1000 calories of lean protein and vegetables....get my drift.
Not everything in your entire post is wrong, but you REALLY might want to do more research (and editing) before you post stuff like this. "A calorie isn't a calorie" is ridiculous. If it isn't a calorie, what is it?
As for the 2nd sentence I bolded - are you serious? A gram of fat has 9 calories, a gram of carbs has 4, a gram of protein has 4. Is THAT what you're trying to say, because what you said makes no sense and is just plain wrong. A gram of protein does not take 9 calories to burn, versus 4 for fat or carbs. There are different thermic effects of food (TEF), and different nutritional / health values, but that's not even close to what was typed.
Not everything in your entire post is wrong, but you REALLY might want to do more research (and editing) before you post stuff like this. "A calorie isn't a calorie" is ridiculous. If it isn't a calorie, what is it?
"A calorie isn't a calorie" is a common phrase thrown about in some fitness communities, even by experts. It's not meant literally, usually. It typically means that they quality of the foods (macros and micronutrients) is more important to body composition than the calorie numbers alone would suggest.
We can't say that it's not true, but it's highly overblown. For the most part, calories in vs calories out is the key. People who eat "healthier" tend to lose weight faster, but only a small part is the actual composition of the foods, most of it is the behaviors that go along with those food choices.
Quote:
As for the 2nd sentence I bolded - are you serious? A gram of fat has 9 calories, a gram of carbs has 4, a gram of protein has 4. Is THAT what you're trying to say, because what you said makes no sense and is just plain wrong. A gram of protein does not take 9 calories to burn, versus 4 for fat or carbs. There are different thermic effects of food (TEF), and different nutritional / health values, but that's not even close to what was typed.
I think it's just a typo. Accidentally swapping the P and F numbers.
Let's hope so. (it being a typo, as the same thing bugged me too = thinking protein burns 9kcal & fat only 4kcal)
To jbb , I've got several words of advice , part of which a repeat of what others stated
1. as much as it is a PITA , really start to track meticulously/anally/OCD what you are eating by weighing your foods (counting is possible for items that have a given weight) so you know exactly what you are eating, which means that if you do what is in 3. you have your charts ready. Also keep track of your weight every day as well as do weekly measurements.
2. change your diet by cycling carbs/calories. Sounds like you are undereating and your body adapts too quickly, esp given what you write about getting rid of some junkier foods and still not seeing change. For many, it works better to cycle between high & low calorie days with surplus calories & very large deficits, rather than eat at a moderate deficit. For the exact same average WEEKLY intake you will mostly see better results with cycled calories/carbs.
3. get a medical assessment, primarily a thyroid panel, including free T4/T3 as well as the standard TSH that they often do as the only measurement. Before going to a doctor, start tracking morning temperature as well. If it's really low (less than 36°C is low), that's another indication thyroid might be slow. Another factor could be a body that's too stressed (high cortisol).
For now I'd just raise calories slowly by going up 100kcal every week and see what happens while doing so. If you hit an amount of calories that seems reasonable for someone with your wt & activity, you should still be able to maintain. From there, drop calories again & start carb/calorie cycling.
Good luck...
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Background: I used to be a skinny triathlete and mountain bike racer. Now I am 47 and 25 lbs heavier than when I was in my peak triathlon condition and don't like the way it feels. I have tried lots of things over the past several years to lose some weight (fat), but none have worked.
- Trained for and ran a marathon. Didn't lose any weight.
- Trained for and completed a triathlon, working out like a madman. Didn't lose any weight.
- Made positive diet changes -- no more sodas, no more sugar in my coffee, fewer baked goods, eating more fruits and veggies, smaller portions. Didn't lose any weight.
- My wife suggested WeightWatchers online. I followed it and stayed well within my points limits, but didn't lose any weight.
- I tried the South Beach Diet. On Phase 1 I did lose about 4 lbs in 2 weeks, but when I went to Phase II the weight came back. The good thing was that it did reduce my cravings for sweets and carbs and I tried new foods and learned new ways to make healthy meals.
Now I am doing the NROL programs, completed FLI and FLII but my diet wasn't very good. 2 weeks ago I started a modified South Beach & clean eating diet and I am now doing NROL Strength I. I have actually gained a pound in the last 2 weeks (essentially no change). There is no noticeable change in muscle size or fat amount or fit of my clothes.
I am concentrating on eating more veggies. I have been preparing vegetables every night and eating a lot of salads for lunch. I also drink v8 juice during mid-morning and mid-afternoon snacks. I have also been eating a lot of lean protein -- eggs, skim milk, lowfat cheese, turkey, chicken, and I drink a protein shake after my weighlifting workouts.
I don't want to count calories or weigh food. For WeightWatchers I tracked and entered all my food portions, calories, fiber, etc., and I just hate doing that. I now just choose whole foods, avoiding sugar, carbs that aren't whole grain, fried foods, and processed foods.
Here is a typical day of eating for me. I am 5'7" and 165 lbs.
- Breakfast was some Kashi Go-Lean cereal with skim milk, and coffee
- Mid-morning I ate a boiled egg and drank some v8 juice (to get some vegetables in the morning)
- Did a Strength 1 workout during my lunch break.
- Lunch was a salad with lots of veggies, garbanzo beans, and fat-free Catalina dressing, and a Meso-tech protein shake
- Afternoon snack was a nectarine and some celery with hummus and some string cheese
- For dinner I sauteed some mixed vegetables in olive oil with some seasoning, and crumbled some cashews on top, and also had a moderate portion of roasted chicken.
- Before bed I had some decaf hot tea with agave nectar in it. I know the agave nectar is a sugar, but it satsfies my desire for dessert and it doesn't cause a blood sugar spike like honey or processed sugar. Besides, I've been sugar free otherwise.
Next week I will add in some more cardio. I haven't run or biked in a couple of months, and I plan to do NROL Strength 1 every other day and run or bike on the days in between.
Any suggestion on how to lose the fat?
You say 'some' of this, and 'some' of that quite often. You would be surprised what 'some' adds up to in calories. It is all about calories in vs. calories out. If you want to see a change, you need to be in a deficit--calorie-wise. Try cutting back 20% of your calories for the week, based on your maintenance level. So, if you require 2000kcals to maintain your current weight, try cutting back to 1600 kcals and see where you are. Yes, you'll feel like crap for a few days, but you need to just deal, and you will soon find you are doing ok. You may want to ease up on training volume too.
You need to weigh/measure your food portions, keep a detailed log and stick to it. Go to Fitday.com for help with that.
Try to eat protein with every meal as well.
It requires some planning and work on your part, but if you seriously want to see changes, try to plan out your diet for the week in advance and measure, count, and continue to train.
Thanks again for the advice everyone. This old thread from September was resurrected today, and I have actually made some progress since then. I have been following some of the advice given here.
I started tracking calories in fitday. It has helped me learn about my macronutrient percentages. Since I now limit most carbs to whole grains I figured I was eating a fairly low carb diet, but they aren't as low as I thought. My proteins also aren't as high as I thought, so I've been working on eating more. I still don't weigh or measure my food very carefully, but I tend to overestimate my portions in fitday to be conservative. In spite of that, though, fitday shows me at a very large deficit. It says my daily expediture is around 2800 and my intake is usually under 2000. On days that I do an intermittent fast, my intake can be under 1000.
In spite of these (apparently) large deficits I am only losing about half a pound a week, but it's nice to see the progress. I'm down about 7 lbs since September, and my pants are now looser and I've tightened my belt a notch. I also generally feel better -- afternoon energy crashes are rare, no more heartburn, cravings under control, and that sort of stuff. I seem to do better on a lower carb diet.
I'm currently doing NROL Fat Loss III. I have a hard time getting through the workouts. I don't know if it just my conditioning and the difficulty of the workouts, or if my diet is not providing enough energy for the workout. I do concentrate on pre and post-workout nutrition and only do intermittent fasts on non-workout days.
I tend to eat very well during the week and then cheat on weekends. I try to limit cheat meals to once a week, but it sometimes is more. I look at it as a periodic refeed.
We know that it takes more calories to burn a gram of protein (9) than a gram of fat or carb (4). Therefore you are better off really to have a slightly higher protein diet for weight loss due to the effects on the metabolism whist trying to digest that protein.
It doesn't read like a typo because the poster goes on to use the 9 for Protein as a reason to eat Protein - so he or she apparently thinks it is true and means what was written.
"A calorie isn't a calorie" is a common phrase thrown about in some fitness communities, even by experts. It's not meant literally, usually. It typically means that they quality of the foods (macros and micronutrients) is more important to body composition than the calorie numbers alone would suggest.
We can't say that it's not true, but it's highly overblown. For the most part, calories in vs calories out is the key. People who eat "healthier" tend to lose weight faster, but only a small part is the actual composition of the foods, most of it is the behaviors that go along with those food choices.
I think it's just a typo. Accidentally swapping the P and F numbers.
I've heard it thrown around before, but the way it was said/rationalized just made no sense here. And as you said, it's pretty overblown...
As for the "typo" - I keyed on that as NOT being a typo for the same reason Lisa did:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaS
It doesn't read like a typo because the poster goes on to use the 9 for Protein as a reason to eat Protein - so he or she apparently thinks it is true and means what was written.
Incorrect and inaccurate.
Sometimes a post just strikes me - the "tone" or whatever... can't put into words WHY this one made me want to reply, but I just felt drawn to it .
Frustrated & not losing fat
Its not about calories in vs calories out...well not exactly
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