Fat Loss: Diet, Training, and LifestyleThis is your place to troubleshoot your fat loss problems from nutrition to training. If your results have slowed or stalled this is the place to come for advice for all your fat loss needs.
So after rereading the thread and the answers I got (after they were broken down to bite size pieces for me thank you very much!
It seems the point of the article is not the exercise per se that is that is making people gain weight/not lose wieght its the fact that people aren't creating/maintaining a caloric deficit while exercising (or not exercising however you go about it). They're not following a full exercise/nutrition program.
The article just never says it clearly though. It does a good job of going through the rationale a lot of people go through, well i worked now i can play you know. Myself, I hadn't been paying attention to how hungry I am after I work out especially cardio, that the hunger was increased because I was exercising. I just noticed that yesterday after doing intervals and I came home starved and luckily needing to get a lot of protein in so i had to eat anyway. But I saw that I didn't really have enough calories left to all that protein because part of that was going to come from a shake which was going to have carbs.
Now knowing that exercise will make me hungrier than the days I don't excercise, I guess I have to either exercise earlier in the day when I have a lot of calories left still or allow myself enough calories in the evening so I have them post-workout.
So after rereading the thread and the answers I got (after they were broken down to bite size pieces for me thank you very much!
It seems the point of the article is not the exercise per se that is that is making people gain weight/not lose wieght its the fact that people aren't creating/maintaining a caloric deficit while exercising (or not exercising however you go about it). They're not following a full exercise/nutrition program.
The article just never says it clearly though. It does a good job of going through the rationale a lot of people go through, well i worked now i can play you know. Myself, I hadn't been paying attention to how hungry I am after I work out especially cardio, that the hunger was increased because I was exercising. I just noticed that yesterday after doing intervals and I came home starved and luckily needing to get a lot of protein in so i had to eat anyway. But I saw that I didn't really have enough calories left to all that protein because part of that was going to come from a shake which was going to have carbs.
Now knowing that exercise will make me hungrier than the days I don't excercise, I guess I have to either exercise earlier in the day when I have a lot of calories left still or allow myself enough calories in the evening so I have them post-workout.
I think you will benefit and learn a lot just by being around here. Reading the treads in the FLTS section alone will help.
To answer your question about cardio machine calculators...they are usually an overestimate. Don't quote me but I want to say I read somewhere on average 30% off. Of course it depends on how much information you enter i.e. height, weight, sex, age. Point is don't count on them too much. If you are really into numbers and stats, look into Leigh Peele's The Fat Loss Troubleshoot and possibly a Go Wear Fit or Bodybugg if you really want to get a good idea of how many calories you burn and need in a day to accomplish your goals.
And for me exercise is not about losing weight. I come from an athletic background, so exercise was never a chore or a task to be done simply to lose pounds. For me it is/was a competition with others or sometimes myself, and it is/was fun for me. So yes, I do enjoy it. Some days more then others, but I can honestly say I like working out - running/biking/lifting - I look forward to it each day.
I didn't say I don't like exercise, I said I don't like exercise for the sake of exercise. Who does?
Yeah, I do. And it might stray over to the other obsessive side of the fence, too - I understand in my primal brain that the tons of cardio I do might actually not be that great for me.
That walking a lot during the day, taking yoga now and then, hurling around a heavy weight and doing some sprints occasionally are a better lifestyle setup than pounding out 40+ miles per week.
That I might just live LONGER if I let my bodily processes slow down a tad by both eating less and exerting less, rather than eat to fuel exercise to justify eating to fuel more cardio, etc.
But. I. Love. It.
I love the feeling about 45 minutes into a run when I am invincible and my legs are flying and I'm not so afraid anymore of what 2 miles at tempo pace will do to me.
I love finishing my trail loop on that gentle downhill grade pumping the arms and trying to beat the thunderstorm coming in but heck who cares if I get rained on anyway.
I love the hot yoga classes, sweat flying everywhere, focused attention between my eyes in the mirror as my hamstrings do their darndest to release and let me flow into the poses even though I'm dehydrated and tired from work.
I love my hill loop, each jaw-gaping climb making the lactic acid flow and the mitochondria slap each other on the ass and say, "get going! get going!" and then each pounding downhill testing the quads and the toe-lift and the breathing.
I love being up at sunrise, both for the beauty of the light as well as the smugness of being hard at work so early while everyone else is on their asses, that satisfaction of DOING.
Psst, I'm a gastrodork, too. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "My yoga class had me trembling and sweating and I feel MUCH better." - Fang
Fine, I concede. Everyone happy now? I think the point was lost but oh well. And you aren't doing it just to do it, you are deriving a benefit that is important to you, the pros outweigh the benefits so you do like it. So it actually doesn't really contradict what I said. But whatever, its your perogative to like it.
Not everyone has to like it, some people do it because they know its good for them, whether they like it or not. Kinda like taking meds (in my case or not). Good for you. I like skating, I like playing tennis, I like watching Law & Order on the elliptical or while lifting weights. I don't like running. Good on you if you do. Running to go nowhere is pointless IMHO and counterproductive based on NRFL4W but knock yourself out. Doesn't mean I'm sitting on my ass just because you enjoy it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by misstenacity
Yeah, I do. And it might stray over to the other obsessive side of the fence, too - I understand in my primal brain that the tons of cardio I do might actually not be that great for me.
That walking a lot during the day, taking yoga now and then, hurling around a heavy weight and doing some sprints occasionally are a better lifestyle setup than pounding out 40+ miles per week.
That I might just live LONGER if I let my bodily processes slow down a tad by both eating less and exerting less, rather than eat to fuel exercise to justify eating to fuel more cardio, etc.
But. I. Love. It.
I love the feeling about 45 minutes into a run when I am invincible and my legs are flying and I'm not so afraid anymore of what 2 miles at tempo pace will do to me.
I love finishing my trail loop on that gentle downhill grade pumping the arms and trying to beat the thunderstorm coming in but heck who cares if I get rained on anyway.
I love the hot yoga classes, sweat flying everywhere, focused attention between my eyes in the mirror as my hamstrings do their darndest to release and let me flow into the poses even though I'm dehydrated and tired from work.
I love my hill loop, each jaw-gaping climb making the lactic acid flow and the mitochondria slap each other on the ass and say, "get going! get going!" and then each pounding downhill testing the quads and the toe-lift and the breathing.
I love being up at sunrise, both for the beauty of the light as well as the smugness of being hard at work so early while everyone else is on their asses, that satisfaction of DOING.
Fine, I concede. Everyone happy now? I think the point was lost but oh well. And you aren't doing it just to do it, you are deriving a benefit that is important to you, the pros outweigh the benefits so you do like it. So it actually doesn't really contradict what I said. But whatever, its your perogative to like it.
Not everyone has to like it, some people do it because they know its good for them, whether they like it or not. Kinda like taking meds (in my case or not). Good for you. I like skating, I like playing tennis, I like watching Law & Order on the elliptical or while lifting weights. I don't like running. Good on you if you do. Running to go nowhere is pointless IMHO and counterproductive based on NRFL4W but knock yourself out. Doesn't mean I'm sitting on my ass just because you enjoy it.
Maybe I've got this wrong or something, but I think every time a dissenting opinion is posted on FLTS, Jesus kills a kitten.
LOL...
But really, it's not about dissenting opinions. It's about tone, it's about taking a discussion / debate and getting personal or sarcastic or snippy or just plain rude. No reason to do so.
I posted the original link because I was happy to see maintream media (versus science, as Matt correctly pointed out) reporting on what so many of us have learned about exercise and diet and activity levels in general. And I was happy to see so much discussion flow from this, whether or not people agree with me or the article or Leigh Peele or Matt or anyone! Having said that, I do NOT get how or why it turned personal (as many other threads have done, as well).
That's where my comment (and I think Jane's, but don't want to put words in her mouth) was coming from.
To the people who love exercise for the sake of exercise... uh, no you don't. You guys like to exercise because of the feeling you get from it. That's not for the sake of exercise, that's for the enjoyment of the feeling (the win, the endorphins, getting stronger, faster, etc.).
Forrest ran for the sake of running. Prisoners dig holes and fill them again for the sake of digging. There's no perfect "sake of" example, since Forrest really ran because he was sad and prisoners are forced to do that to keep them busy, but it's an expression and I get what she means in regards to exercise and fat loss.
200 calories of exercise just to enable you to eat 200 more calories of food is about as close as we can get. For the most part, it's the same as eating 200 calories less, as far as fat loss goes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miss_jupiter76
Fine, I concede. Everyone happy now? I think the point was lost but oh well. And you aren't doing it just to do it, you are deriving a benefit that is important to you, the pros outweigh the benefits so you do like it. So it actually doesn't really contradict what I said. But whatever, its your perogative to like it.
Not everyone has to like it, some people do it because they know its good for them, whether they like it or not. Kinda like taking meds (in my case or not). Good for you. I like skating, I like playing tennis, I like watching Law & Order on the elliptical or while lifting weights. I don't like running. Good on you if you do. Running to go nowhere is pointless IMHO and counterproductive based on NRFL4W but knock yourself out. Doesn't mean I'm sitting on my ass just because you enjoy it.
I'm sorry, but if you're going to hang around here for the long run, you have to realize that conversations on the internet are very easy to misinterpret. I don't think anyone was bagging on you at all. At worst, people were mildly disagreeing with you. You need a thicker skin, at least 60% of the people posting in this thread are nice and mean no harm.
LostDog: thanks for agreeing with me in the first part of your post. i think i'm a pretty good judge of internet tone. there's a way of saying things that are better than others...that is if what you *want* is to help someone. thats all. i'll do better, i think 85% of people here mean no harm and genuinely want to help. then there's some who just like to talk. for the sake of talking, like they like to exercise for the sake of exercising i suppose. and show how much they know and how much you don't.
point noted though. its negative energy i don't need for myself. maybe there is an ignore button or something?
i don't know if the kitten thing was meant about me? sorry if i don't get it. maybe its an inside joke or something.
Sorry you took offense - I am genuinely here to learn and to help. Good luck with your goals miss jupiter.
I will stand by my claim that I enjoy exercise. Lost Dog is right...I find enjoyment, stress relief, and solitude in a run. Just the trail, me, and my tunes. Time to think and decompress. Lifting has its own enjoyment but entirely different then running. Do I enjoy sitting on the couch doing nothing? heck yes. But I also enjoy my exercise. I get the feeling that when people say they enjoy exercise, that some think its a way of bragging? Not the case at all for me.
Sorry you took offense - I am genuinely here to learn and to help. Good luck with your goals miss jupiter.
I will stand by my claim that I enjoy exercise. Lost Dog is right...I find enjoyment, stress relief, and solitude in a run. Just the trail, me, and my tunes. Time to think and decompress. Lifting has its own enjoyment but entirely different then running. Do I enjoy sitting on the couch doing nothing? heck yes. But I also enjoy my exercise. I get the feeling that when people say they enjoy exercise, that some think its a way of bragging? Not the case at all for me.
I'm super lazy. I can sit around like nobody's business (hence my need to go down to a 2000 calorie day to lose fat). Buuuut, once I get up to play, I play for a long time and play hard. Now that I'm more active, I love to exercise. Soooo, I understand what you guys are saying, too.
"This is the most flat-out atrocious piece of journalism I’ve seen in my entire life:
Why Exercise Won’t Make You Thin
Talk about skewing research to tell the story to which you’re clearly biased in order to generate some controversy! There is no mention of excess post-exercise oxygen consumption or the difference among different types of exercise (steady-state cardio, interval training, resistance training). There isn’t any discussion of visceral versus subcanteous fat loss.
And, it isn’t that exercise won’t make you thinner; it’s that exercise combined with increased calories may not make you thinner. In other words, exercise is good, but morons are bad.
This is a perfect example of a journalist who clearly knows NOTHING about exercise interviewing a bunch of experts and then presenting one side of a story without making some very important qualifying statements (trust me, I’ve seen this multiple times before when freelance writers have interviewed me for stories for mainstream magazines). In this writer’s case, those qualifying statements should be:
a. “Research has shown that exercise in conjunction with a maintenance or reduction in calories does increase fat loss as compared to maintaining or reducing calories alone.”
b. “I really am in no way qualified to write this article. In fact, I’m probably not even smart enough to turn on a treadmill, so they just put me on this hamster wheel in my cubicle to make me feel somewhat qualified to discuss exercise.”
Honestly, I could go on all day ranting and raving about this, but such rubbish journalism isn’t even worth my time. Instead, I’d just encourage you to give up Time Magazine altogether for publishing such crap. I know I will be doing so."
I think the reactions to this article (here and on the Eric Cressy site and elsewhere) are absoloutely fascinating. So far I'd classify the reactions as:
I'm not mad about it; I've already gone over my objections.
I think that given the average person, the conclusion is probably correct.
That doesn't mean that a correct protocol, however, which would obviously include both exercise and a controlled dietary regimen, would fall prey to this.
It's all about the education and motivation of the person.
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Taking the Cressey quote into consideration, I think the TITLE is misleading... and that really skews the good information that's inside the article. If the title was something like "Exercise alone can not compensate for increased caloric intake and lack of daily activity" then it'd summarize what I consider to be the main (and most important) points... but it wouldn't be as eye-catching, eh?
Taking the Cressey quote into consideration, I think the TITLE is misleading... and that really skews the good information that's inside the article. If the title was something like "Exercise alone can not compensate for increased caloric intake and lack of daily activity" then it'd summarize what I consider to be the main (and most important) points... but it wouldn't be as eye-catching, eh?
Totally agree. The title is misleading but the outcome is the same for many many people. Not all of course, there are many of us who don't go and "eat back" what we just burned because we think we can or are entitled to.
There is a woman at my gym who downs a big bottle of gatorade while she runs on the treadmill for 45 minutes. Or at my old gym that had a smoothie stand people would get smoothies that were the calorie equivalent of a milkshake as their "post workout" (which was maybe an aerobics class and then a few bicep curls with 3 lbs DB's) meal.
As far as EPOC--hasn't it pretty much been proven that it really doesn't contribute that much to calorie burn regadless of what type of exercise one did i.e. HIIT, weights, cardio, etc.?
There is a woman at my gym who downs a big bottle of gatorade while she runs on the treadmill for 45 minutes. Or at my old gym that had a smoothie stand people would get smoothies that were the calorie equivalent of a milkshake as their "post workout" (which was maybe an aerobics class and then a few bicep curls with 3 lbs DB's) meal.
Sounds like most people in my gym. The smoothies at my gym they use PB with partially hydrogenated oils!
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"Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it lasts forever."
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"Hard work beats talent everytime."
-Tony Dungy-
"If you can see yourself doing something you can achieve it." Dave Goggins
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I was looking at that today when doing some shopping. There's a fitness center in the same plaza with a Booster Juice outside (possibly attached). I was looking at their 'high protein' offerings. They have between 24 and 33g of protein, however, they're 400-500 cals as well.
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Since I just know exercise makes me hungry, either on that very same day or, when I go in w/o being well-fed a day later (in extreme cases even 48hrs later), I'm making a conscious decision to actually overfeed on workout days and compensate for this by underfeeding on rest days.
This automatically puts a limit on the amount of strenuous workouts I can do, which is fine by me as there's no amount of food that can make me recover from near-daily exercising.. there's a reason why I've picked the signature below..
But really I do like lifting weights, moreso actually than I used to love cycling , outside the weekend events. Maybe it's the mathematical aspect of it.. the anticipation and then afterwards, seeing what I've done versus what I thought to do. It's a much more controlled environment.
As for burning calories just to eat more.. me & my SO sometimes fight over who gets to carry the groceries when we do them together.. I'm often insisting on carrying the majority as weighted walking makes me burn more & hence I get to eat more too :
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