Soy Milk

[rookie]

being lactose intolerant these days is killing me? What does everyone think of soy milk? The taste is fine but I am not sure I see much benefit from its breakdown. Do I need to bother with it?

[Lost Dog]

Personally, I try to avoid soy products, particularly soy protein. I don't think it does a man any favors, hormonally. I still use soy sauce and eat some edamame, but avoid most other soy products. I particularly avoid soy protein products.

Have you tried Lactaid? My kids drink that with no problems.

Also, some people say good things about Carb Countdown "milk." It's basically low carb milk, so there will be far less lactose (the milk sugar) anyway. It's made from defatted cream and water (and other stuff, too, I'm sure).

Right now, I'm eating cereal with a vanilla protein powder "shake" instead of milk. It's not bad, just different. It helps to make it the night before and put it in the fridge so it's good and cold.

[Marykaa]

LOST DOG
what kind of problems does Soy Protein cause?

I don't think it does a man any favors, hormonally.

"man" as in human? or as in not-female?

[Kaiser]

Here we go again. Do you have any evidence, LD, of live en vivo trials that lend credence to that belief that soy is harmful to men? In vitro and rat-based trials with minimal evidence need not be brought up.

BTW, most soy miks are not concentrated forms of soy protein. At least the good ones aren't.

Rookie, they now have milks where the sugar that causes the problems is broken down - these are made specifically for lactose-intolerant people. You might want to look into that, or just give up milk completely.

[dos]

Kaiser beat me to it! I am tired of the dairy industry-driven 'research' that seems to pop-up everytime milk sales go down.

If soy were harmful to my manhood, I would be a woman by now

[Lost Dog]

I have no evidence. I was diagnosed with low testosterone and the doctor suggested that I limit certain things. Soy protein was one of them.

In fact, when the doctor suggested it, I actually thought of dos's 240 lbs of leanness, but figured it wouldn't hurt to try for a while.

Also, just because it effects one person one way, doesn't mean that everyone is effected the same way. Allergies and reactions go into it, as well. My son was allergic (or had bad reactions) to soy when he was a baby.

In addition, perhaps someone with a very high T level wouldn't notice the effect as much as someone who's T levels are starting out lower.

There are many conflicting views on so many subjects, I'm sorry that I wrote my opinion as if it were fact.

[Marykaa]

Personally, I try to avoid soy products, particularly soy protein. I don't think it does a man any favors, hormonally.

humm You DID write it as a personal opinion. [img]smile.gif[/img]

and good luck with your Hormones : )

[rookie]

"In addition, perhaps someone with a very high T level wouldn't notice the effect as much as someone who's T levels are starting out lower"

As I strap on my cowboy boots this morning and load my Beretta AL 390 into the 4 x 4 for this afternoons shooting I figure I got this one covered.

Thanks everyone for the input. I definately want to give the lactaid a try though, Have a great turkey day.

[Jean-Paul]

If you just have to have some milk-like product, I don't see the problem with it, but if you are trying to get lean on - say - Adam's Diet, then you will need to cut soy milk, and regular milk as well. Too much sugar in both. I personally like soy milk's taste.

[Lost Dog]

Dos and Kaiser,

After the posts of a few days back, I decided to do some reading on the soy subject.

To be honest, I see people writing stuff for both sides of the debate. Obviously, there are many people who eat a ton of soy and are fine, lean, and even hugely muscular.

I'm not a scientist. Many of the articles sited studies that made my brain hurt.

I read things that seem to indicate a political battle between the dairy and soy lobbies, between omnivores and vegetarians/vegans, animal rights people and (I don't know a good term for this person) those who still want to eat animals and animal products.

My head is now swimming.

I'd like to hear more on both sides, but from people who I believe have no hidden agendas. I don't think either of you have hidden agendas. Can you direct me to some good info?

[Kaiser]

LOL - well Dos may have a hidden agenda since he is a vegan. [img]tongue.gif[/img] (j/k) I eat meat so I am obviously not.

If your head is swimming you seem to have found the studies and data. And you are right: a lot of it is funded by special interests on one side or the other. I've deleted all of my bookmarks on the subject, and besides, the position I advocate (that moderate use of soy is not harmful to males and that the benefits in terms of health are there anyway) cannot be proven. You can't prove a negative (that soy is not harmful to men). All you can do is look for studies that show that it is. The studies I've seen that seem to indicate a link without doubt are either in vitro studies or rat-based studies. The problems with each that I see are as follows:
-the in-vitro studies are looking at the issue on a cellular level in a petri dish isolated from a full and functioning human body. Secondly, they often use isolated proteins from the soy plant, as opposed to the way a human will eat often it it (whole in the form of edamame, tofu, etc.). As an example, you can take an apple seed, which contains cyanide, and isolate that against a human cell and it will be poisonous to it. Yet we all eat apple seeds frequently and don't die - because the whole effect of the small amount of cyanaide in the seed on a human body is negligible.
-the lab rat studies are on a non-human subject and are fed incredible amounts of soy, again, not whole but often isolated proteins.
-finally, my own apocryphal evidence: cultures in the Far East, like Japan, have been eating soy products for generations. They don't show any indicated drop in testosterone or lowered sperm count or problem with spawning new generations.

For my point of view, eating a moderate soy intake is suggested to have benefits to cholesterol levels, cancer rates, and heart disease. These are postulated and research suggested, but even if not proven, we are talking about a positive effect versus a negative one. Additionally, the isoflavones in soy have been shown to be beneficial, so....

Personally, I used to consume a lot of processed soy protein products. I've stopped that now - try to get some soy protein a few times a week from whole soy. I've been consuming soy for some time now - and haven't grown man breasts. But here's some hard proof - back when my wife and I were having problems having kids, I'd get sperm count tested just to make sure it wasn't me. My results would come back, as the doctor told me 'above 100%.' He told me I'd make an ideal sperm donor and said, with a totally straight face, 'from my point of view you are like Superman. Seriously, these numbers are off the charts.' [img]smile.gif[/img] So if soy makes my swimmers world class, how much can it be hurting?