Diet, Nutrition and SupplementationPost here for supplement reviews or nutritional advice. If you're trying to get "ripped abz" THIS is where you should be.
Is it possible to take in too much dairy? I am bulking right now so does it matter as much? I had about 7 servings of dairy today I never used to eat that much, but it helps me increase my cals easily...such as using skim milk instead of water to mix with protien.
I would rather get my calories elsewhere, but I guess if you're bulking there is no too much of anything as long as it's a quality source of calories. Nuts are an easy option if you need to add calories without the extra sugars that dairy has.
Yeah, I try to eat nuts as well, but I have to be careful of too much fat. If I go above 20%-25% of my total cals from fat, I start to store it. I'll see if I can cut some of the dairy down at least.
Are you sure you store fat if you go above 25% fat.
Storing is a function of excess, not macros.
I have eaten as high as 75% from fat and still been able to lose. If nutrient timing and food combining are all good you shouldn't be storing fat from fat.
Does this make any sense?
I don't know. It seems like whenever I have swayed from my macros, I store BF. Maybe I need to experiment a bit more. I'll be honest, I haven't done much as far as food combining. Maybe I need to look into that some.
technically, it shouldn't matter where your cals come from (fat or otherwise) as it's an issue of cals in vs cals out. i've found that by increasing the fat i consume, the i'm satisfied longer and i avoid overeating or mindlessly snacking. of course if you're bulking it's a little different, but i say if you want dairy, have it.
Originally posted by TrainingGirl: I don't know. It seems like whenever I have swayed from my macros, I store BF. Maybe I need to experiment a bit more. I'll be honest, I haven't done much as far as food combining. Maybe I need to look into that some.
Have you posted your menu around here? What does it look like? Looking at your fitday log some of the things you eat don't make sense just in a table. Do you have time to post how your food is spaced out throughout the day and how do you combine?
7:30am: 2 slices 12-grain bread dipped in 2egg whites/1whole egg and cooked. Served with 1/8cup light pancake syrup and 1 cup strawberries. 8oz skim milk w/1 scoop whey protien powder
10:00am: Carb control yogurt and 1 cup red grapes
12:30pm: 2 slices whole grain bread with 3 slices lean ham and 1 slice american cheese
3:00pm: 1/2 serving turkey pepperoni, 2 servings light string cheese, 1 cup cantaloupe, 1 cup strawberries, 1/2 cup red grapes
6:00pm: 3 slices cheese pizza (not usual..well..maybe once a week)
8:30pm: yogurt and 10oz skim milk with 1 scoop protien powder
Total cals 2434
Fat 67g 26%
Carbs 283g 45%
Protein 171g 29%
On workout days, immediately before and during workout I have Accelerade, and post-workout I have 1 scoop whey PP with 1/4 cup malto and 2tbsp dextrose.
I'm 5'8" and weigh 130lbs. My goal right now is to gain muscle (with minimal fat of course). I really don't do well if my carbs go below 40%...meaning I get headaches, feel nauseated, and become quite bitchy. I just try to have protein, carbs and some fat with every meal. Feel free to rip it apart though and offer suggestions. I'm all for learning [img]smile.gif[/img]
I am not a nutrition expert in any way but from what I know from experience with me and clients I would suggest that:
1. You replace bread with oats and sweet potatoes for carb sources
2. You ditch the milk. Blah (sygar blah), maybe just leave it in PWO, but then you have enough sugar there so might just leave it out altogether
3. I wouldn't eat fats and carbs in the same meal
It seems like you can use more veggies and fats as a whole.
4. Can you replace the deli cuts and pepperoni with real meat?
Have you tried P+F and P+C? It's a very easy way to combine your food especially when eating more carbs while bulking.
I also noticed in your fitday log that you use fat free dressings and mayo. Can you do without?
You maybe eating just enough carbs for your goals, I don't know about that. People that don't do well without carbs are just not adapted to using fat for fuel, it takes a few days to get use to. No big deal if you stick through it.
Torque..I don't mind you asking at all. I've been bad about the veggies it seems. I've been eating more fruit and forgetting about the veggies. Not good I know...I need to get them back in there. So to answer your question, it was not planned.
Gayla...I agree on more veggies and fats. I can replace deli meat with real..it's out of laziness I eat the deli, but I will change that. I've never tried P+F and P+C and not combining F+C. Does that include all carbs? Meaning don't have fish and broccoli together? Or do you mean carbs like potatoes and oats? I can do without the dressings. With ditching the milk...is it still ok to have cheese and yogurt? I have found yogurt made with Splenda.
Not combining F+C doesn't mean you can't have fish and broccoli together, it applies to dense carbs like potatoes. If you choose fibrous vegs you can have them with fat and protein. I think cheese and yogy are fine, even when you ditch the milk. I would say put full fat organic milk in coffee and cook with it when recipes need it; eat organic full fat yogy/cottage cheese/a bit of other cheeses for flavor, but still focus your calories on good carbs, enough protein and fats.
Keep posting, I love reading menus.
quote:Originally posted by TrainingGirl: Meaning don't have fish and broccoli together? Or do you mean carbs like potatoes and oats?
You should never have fish and oats together. But only because it's gross. [/quote]lol...actually, i've made tuna pancakes before...which are made with tuna and oats(and a few other things). They are actually pretty tasty [img]smile.gif[/img]
I make tuna "bars". I just use a cooking pan and then cut them and wrap them like I would regular homemade protein bars. It's not gross at all (hunger IS the best spice). Anything to make tuna fun [img]smile.gif[/img]
Ok, I'm hijacking this thread a little but it's my own so I guess that's ok [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Quote:
Storing is a function of excess, not macros.
I've been thinking about this ever since I read it. And for some reason, I can't get the idea to sink through. It kind of goes along with the "a calorie is just a calorie" that I can't understand. When I changed my diet initially, I increased protein but decreased fat and carbs, and dropped bodyfat and 2 sizes. When I have an excess of carbs, I am not as "tight"...I'm more pudgy, but when I keep them in check, my body comp changes. I can gain weight and keep bodyfat the same if my macros are kept in check. Therefore, there is an excess of cals, weight increases, yet body comp remains unchanged...so there is no storage of fat. I think I need more explanation to understand the science behind saying it's not a function of macros maybe? Same with a cal is just a cal. I just can't see how eating a burger and fries everyday, is the same as eating something healthier if the cals and macros are kept the same. If a cal is just a cal, then why would people bother eating clean...they would just decrease cals so cals in is less than cals out. I am feeling so confused about the subject. Help [img]smile.gif[/img]
I've been thinking about this ever since I read it. And for some reason, I can't get the idea to sink through. It kind of goes along with the "a calorie is just a calorie" that I can't understand. When I changed my diet initially, I increased protein but decreased fat and carbs, and dropped bodyfat and 2 sizes. When I have an excess of carbs, I am not as "tight"...I'm more pudgy, but when I keep them in check, my body comp changes. I can gain weight and keep bodyfat the same if my macros are kept in check. Therefore, there is an excess of cals, weight increases, yet body comp remains unchanged...so there is no storage of fat. I think I need more explanation to understand the science behind saying it's not a function of macros maybe? Same with a cal is just a cal. I just can't see how eating a burger and fries everyday, is the same as eating something healthier if the cals and macros are kept the same. If a cal is just a cal, then why would people bother eating clean...they would just decrease cals so cals in is less than cals out. I am feeling so confused about the subject. Help [img]smile.gif[/img]
Nobody says that eating a Big Mc and fries is the same as eating a steak and a serving of broccoli.
The same caloric intake from crap and from clean food will be dealt with differently in you body (different insulin response, satiety, cravings, satisfying your nutrition needs, dealing with additives). There isn't much science in understanding, just common sense. If you're building a house you want to use the best materials, not cardboard, the same with food; garbage in-garbage out, you won't get good results with crappy food (and you won't maintain good health which is the utmost priority).
The thing with macros is like this: if you say 40% of your cals should come from protein but you weigh 200 lbs then you would have to eat an insane amount of protein which will exceed the gram of protein per lb of lean body mass formula. For example say I weigh 117 lbs. I would be lean at 100 (not really, but for the sake of math, let's say so). I multiply by 1.5 when I try to gain muscle and that's 150 grams a day. That equals 600 cals from protein. I have 1000 cals left for carbs and fats. I eat lowcarb most of the time. My carbs are 60-80 grams on training days and less on non training. That's 320 cals. So now I have 600 cals+320 cals=920 cals. I am left with 620 cals from fat, about 80 grams or so. It's basically better to go from your protein and carb needs and fill the rest with fat. I hope this makes sense; then if you carb cycle that makes even a lot more sense.
I as well believe garbage in = garbage out. It's threads like this where part of my confusion comes in. Because I can agree with both sides. As much as I think a cal isn't just a cal, I do still believe in indulging in not so healthy foods once in a while without it screwing up my progress. But as for where a majority of my cals come from, I want them to be healthy cals. But some say it doesn't have to be. Or am I misunderstanding their point as well
Is that formula of 1.5g of protein per lb of lean body mass the best way to figure protein needs? Is there some specific reason not to go any higher? Does the body still use it if you go above?
I've been taking in around 2200-2400 cals a day and have not gained anything recently. So I am going to increase my cals. If I keep my protein steady, I have to make up for this change with carbs and fat? Or mostly fat I guess to go along with what you are describing. That scares me. Maybe it shouldn't. I can't see how eating fat doesn't make you fat. Do I not understand how fat is broken down? I think I need to take a nutrition class...haha.
PS..thanks for spending all this time explaining things to me [img]smile.gif[/img]
TrainingGirl, I almost guarentee as far as protein synthesis goes your body is already maxed out @ like 1 g/lb already.
Why has everyone in the lifting community become so fricking insulinaphobic? Insulin sensativty is mostly correlated w/ bodyweight AND not the GI of the foods that you eat. If you are healthy and you seriously think their will be any diff from eating a med gi vs low gi food (as part of a mixed meal) then you seriously need to rethink some things.
My suggestion? Set protein at 1g-1.5g/lb to help w/ saiety and all that other good stuff. Any more and you are just eating expensive carbs. Set carbs at ALEAST 2g/lb if you are bulking so you make sure glycogen stores stay full. Focus a good chunk of these around workouts to *perhaps* help w/ recovery and partioning. Set fat at around 30% of your total calories w/ atleast 3 grams of EPA/DHA per day.
If you still have any wiggle room left it shouldnt
really matter if they come from carbs or fats. Just play around and see what you respond better to. If you do lots activity outside of lifting weights then you should probably get more of these extra cals from carbs.
I think one key point is if you arent an elite athelete how ridiculas you get with every possible thing that might matter will depend on how much extra stress is causes you. Personally I have seen no real difference from Massive Eating vs a 'mixed meal' diet w/ equivelent amounts of protein other than more time planning meals and having less dietary freedom. This extra stress/hassle far outweighs the benefits it may have FOR ME.
Until actual science comes out showing it matters @ all I will stick w/ what seems to work best while creating the least extra hassle.
Originally posted by Canadian_Bacon: TrainingGirl, I almost guarentee as far as protein synthesis goes your body is already maxed out @ like 1 g/lb already.
Why has everyone in the lifting community become so fricking insulinaphobic? Insulin sensativty is mostly correlated w/ bodyweight AND not the GI of the foods that you eat. If you are healthy and you seriously think their will be any diff from eating a med gi vs low gi food (as part of a mixed meal) then you seriously need to rethink some things.
My suggestion? Set protein at 1g-1.5g/lb to help w/ saiety and all that other good stuff. Any more and you are just eating expensive carbs. Set carbs at ALEAST 2g/lb if you are bulking so you make sure glycogen stores stay full. Focus a good chunk of these around workouts to *perhaps* help w/ recovery and partioning. Set fat at around 30% of your total calories w/ atleast 3 grams of EPA/DHA per day.
If you still have any wiggle room left it shouldnt
really matter if they come from carbs or fats. Just play around and see what you respond better to. If you do lots activity outside of lifting weights then you should probably get more of these extra cals from carbs.
I think one key point is if you arent an elite athelete how ridiculas you get with every possible thing that might matter will depend on how much extra stress is causes you. Personally I have seen no real difference from Massive Eating vs a 'mixed meal' diet w/ equivelent amounts of protein other than more time planning meals and having less dietary freedom. This extra stress/hassle far outweighs the benefits it may have FOR ME.
Until actual science comes out showing it matters @ all I will stick w/ what seems to work best while creating the least extra hassle.
I agree with virtually everything you wrote.
I've done Massive Eating and it worked fine. It was a hassle...
I think that it has certain benefits to the bulker. P+C (with low fat) right after a workout takes advantage of increased P synthesis while your bod is in a particularly anabolic mood. The low fat keeps the food "flowing" AND allows you to eat more and more often PWO (since fat tends to keep you feeling "full" longer). Since a lot of P and C after a workout is good, keeping the fat out of the mix can't hurt, and if keeping F low helps you eat more of the others (without eating so much that you also store fat), then all the better.
Likewise, P+F during the rest of the day, helps you to maximize nutrition by eating more veggies and getting all the fats you need. Here, keeping C low allows you to eat at your caloric limit, making up the macros (and micros) that you limited PWO.
My take anyway...
I think people can successfully bulk just by overeating, but ME allows you to "perfect" it by partitioning your macros to work with your body's response to exercise.
I think the "magic" of ME is more about eliminating certain macros at certain times so you can eat more of the other macros without eating too many calories for your body to handle at that time. (A bad sentence, but I don't have it in me to re-write it...)
Ya, I agree that the biggest thing about is that is forces people to focus on quality food and getting enough carbs around training time.
Also, gastric emptying is pretty darn slow, specially w/ high fiber/protein/fats meal. If you eat every 2-3 hours ala massive eating some of your last meal will probably still be in your gut. Meaning if you have a P+C meal of oats followed 2 hours after by some fats some of the carbs will still be emptying into your small intestine when the fat reaches your stomach
I never used to eat that much, but it helps me increase my cals easily...such as using skim milk instead of water to mix with protien.
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