StB/ Massive Eating... lack of carbs!

[chris_f]

I just started Scrawny to Brawny, and the meal plan is basically John Berardi's Massive Eating program. Since my workout is in the afternoon, i only eat protein + fat meals until its time for my workout.

The lack of carbs until the afternoon is really fucking with me. My brain feels like its in slow motion. I can't think as clearly, i'm not my usual enthusiastic self, and I have trouble focusing/reading/talking, etc.

Is this normal, and if so, how long does it take to go away? Also, if I find to be such an incovenience, do you think I could maintain the same calorie intake, but ignore the protein + carb/protein + fat denominations that Berardi establishes, and instead just eat lots of healthy foods?

HELP!

[bobby]

My experience is that it is fairly normal. When I first started trying to eat low carb to drop a couple pounds it was hell, I couldn't concentrate on anything. Now I can do it without any problems. It should come with time, but I feel for ya, it sucks ass.

[RipStone]

I followed JB's recommendations regarding meal combos for a while, and personally I had major problems with it....lack of energy, probelms gaining weight, not getting stronger. IMO balanced meals are the way to go. What is the point of looking good if you feel like crapo half the day? Carbs give you energy to function. I am probabaly gonna get some crap for saying the this but I am just sharing my expiernces.

[OldGuy]

Of course, yours in anecdotal evidence while JB's is backed up with research. Hmmm, now which one would I follow?

[Ogedei]

I was under the impression that there wasn't research backing up the P+C and P+F stuff, that it was essentially anecdotal?

Not that I have looked into it at all, just curious is all.

Og.

[chris_f]

Og: there is existential research (ie, studying the effects of various nutrients on the body), but i don't believe there have been any direct studies on the p+c and p+f meal plan that JB prescribes. Just LOTS of very very very good anecdotal support from lots of happy customers!

That said, I'm thinking I may focus on eating balanced meals, avoiding anything processed or packaged, and following JB's calorie recommendations, but only following his nutrient timing principal with regard to Pre and Post WO shakes.

Am I dooming myself to failure and/or fatness?

[OldGuy]

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...ating_rl_2.htm (note the research)

Shark, if you are going to follow StB then you should follow his nutrition plan. Mike M. and JB say their plan works as written. If you deviate how will you know if the plan worked?

Also, at no time does JB say his plan is "low carb". To get to the amounts he wants you to eat you have to consume a lot of carbs.

You need to give it time so your body gets used to it. I follow P+F and P+C and never feel I have a lack of energy.

[Johnka]

Hey Sharkbait,

Can you give us an example of the type of P+F meals you have been eating?

In my experience, the people who experience energy loss and the likes are taking the P+F concept too literally.

JB isn't talking about a slab of meat and a hunk of cheese, but rather a well rounded meal with everything except processed grains or sugar.

For example, my dinner last night was a lean grilled burger with olives and feta, homemade hummus with celery and carrot sticks, steamed spinach with pine nuts, and a bowl of mixed berries. There are actually quite a few carbs in there, but they're all from whole veggies, legumes, and berries.

There should be no reason why someone would experience a lack of energy or a foggy brain after a meal like this.

[RipStone]

Originally posted by OldGuy:
Of course, yours in anecdotal evidence while JB's is backed up with research. Hmmm, now which one would I follow?

I am not discrediting JB. All I am saying is that it didnt work for me and that there is more then on philosophy that can lead to developing a great looking and healthy body.

[RipStone]

I found this thread from BB.com on the subject of meal combos. In particualr, look at the two posts near the bottom...one by xxghostxx and the other by Alan Aragon who is a nutrionist...

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ight=combining

[Canadian_Bacon]

sharkbait, one of the reasons people have great success with P+C and P+F is that is almost forces you to eat EXTREMELY CLEAN FOODS. Most crappy food choices are high in both carbs and fat and are therefore eliminated by default.

Secondly, fat storage is insulin independent for the most part. Insulin may speed it up but excess calores will get stored either way.

Their isnt a lot of science behind it fyi Oldguy, I have read his articles and he has even admitted a lot of it is anicdotal.

By all means follow it(and i do somewhat when dieing) if you want however as it can't hurt.

[Canadian_Bacon]

fyi, sorry if I sound like I am in a bad mood. Had an absolutely brutal final today :-|

[CtA318]

Sharkbait before I had StB I was trying to follow P+C and P+F without success. RipStone gave me the same advice and I started to eat well balanced meals.

Once I got StB I saw what I was doing wrong. There werent enough veggies and fruits in my diet. So I'd recomend that you follow the plan as listed but add in lots of veggies whenever you can. Thats where a lot of my carbs come from and I dont feel faint or loss of energy or anything like that. I have gained 2LBS doing this too let me remind you. So give it a shot with veggies and if that doesnt work follow RipStone advice. He is a very knowledgeable person.

Everyone gave great advice not trying to sound like a suck up or anything. Just to make that clear.

[chris_f]

OldGuy: I know the plan isn't low carb, but if I have afternoon workouts, i hate going the whole first half of the day without a grain. It just doesn't feel right...

Johnka: For breakfast I had 4 or 5 eggs, scrambled, with cheese and pepper. I also ate an apple and two fish oil pills. My first lunch (3 hours later) was a giant salad with tomato, carrot, and tuna on top, along with two fish oil pills.

By this point, i felt totally spaced out, foggy and unhealthy, so i ordered two slices of wheat toast, which helped a little bit. I had a second lunch two hours later: Plain yogurt mixed with whey/casein mix protein powder (the yogurt tasted TERRIBLE and i couldn't finnish it. i felt like i was going to puke). I also had an apple and some mixed raw nuts.

When i got home around 4 i caved and a turkey sandwhich on wheat cus my body was begging me for grains, and I finally feel normal again.

I tried doing the three protein drink thing, and i almost puked from that too. The mix of vanilla protein and fruit punch gatorade tastes awful. And the amount of carb and protein required for the program means i add so much powder that its really really strong tasting.

Johnka, i know you saw great results from the program. Hell, that's the reason i bought the book, actually! I'm really lagging on the meal part, so any help would be great.

Do you think I'd ruin the program if I avoided processed food like the plague but didn't strictly adhere to P+C/P+F thing?

[chris_f]

Cta: Fruits and veggies are great, and I'm trying to eat more of them, but they're not filling. I get to the point where i can't eat anymore, but I don't really feel full off of them.

[Tyler_K]

If you weren't gaining weight, it was because you weren't eating enough calories, not because you weren't eating fruits and vegetables.


Tyler

[chris_f]

Originally posted by Tyler_K:
If you weren't gaining weight, it was because you weren't eating enough calories, not because you weren't eating fruits and vegetables.


Tyler

Tyler, thanks for your response, but we're talking about lack of energy throughout the day, not lack of weight gain [img]smile.gif[/img]

[RipStone]

Sharkbait: I know I am not Johnka, but IMO it looks like it would be beneficial to you if you had some more calories in your first few meals. Doesnt look like you are eating a whole lot of food. Also, maybe add some beans to your salad at lunch. I am pretty sure beans are allowed to be eatin in a P+F meal. Personally, I love garbanzo and pinto beans.

[gobbla]

Originally posted by RipStone:
Sharkbait: I know I am not Johnka, but IMO it looks like it would be beneficial to you if you had some more calories in your first few meals. Doesnt look like you are eating a whole lot of food. Also, maybe add some beans to your salad at lunch. I am pretty sure beans are allowed to be eatin in a P+F meal. Personally, I love garbanzo and pinto beans.

I'll second that one...expecially the second one. Salad is all great and wonderful, but that's a very lean salad. Toss on some cheese\olive oil &\or beans to help you feel full and have it stick with you for a little while.

[chris_f]

Thanks for the suggestions guys... There was olive oil and vinegar in there. No beans though... i'll look into that.

[Tyler_K]

Originally posted by sharkbait:


Do you think I'd ruin the program if I avoided processed food like the plague but didn't strictly adhere to P+C/P+F thing?

In my opinion that would be just fine. Even have some of the processed stuff if you want. You won't see a difference in body composition as long as calories are in check. Splitting meals into P+C/P+F is extremely unnecessary.


Tyler

[Tyler_K]

Shark, go to www.bodyrecomposition.com , articles, baseline diet parts 1 and 2. Some great information about setting up a diet.


Tyler

[chris_f]

Tyler, thanks a bunch dude.

[Tyler_K]

No problem. HST's eating for size is good too.


Tyler

[OldGuy]

Just don't diss the program if you don't follow it.

[Tyler_K]

Originally posted by OldGuy:
Just don't diss the program if you don't follow it.

I'm not sure what you are talking about.


Tyler

[chris_f]

Originally posted by OldGuy:
Just don't diss the program if you don't follow it.

Hey OG, why have you been so testy in this thread? No one's been dissing anything. I'm just exploring other possibilities, and inquiring about the neccessity of of seperating macronutrients.

I understand JB has had much success with his program, and I haven't seen anyone refute that claim in this thread. We have, however, discussed whether or not his methods are neccessary to see good results.

So chill [img]smile.gif[/img]

[OldGuy]

Scrawny to Brawny is a program. It's Mike's workouts combined with John's eating program, which they feel will help you gain lean mass. Now, if you change to workouts or the eating plan then you are NOT doing Scrawny to Brawny. You're doing Shark's workout plan. Will you see results? Sure, but they may not be the same as you will see if you followed the plan.

That's all I'm saying.

[wtflestoppoules]

I guess you would just gain alittle bit more fat along with those muscles than you would have following the guidelines.

[chris_f]

OldGuy,

That makes a lot more sense, and I agree 100%. However, the meal plan isn't currently working that well for me (in terms of physical comfort, not in terms of success), and I'd like to know if i have other options.