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Makes sence that he doesn't want me to eat Fat with Carbs. But my question is....is he only refering to High Insulin causing carbs? At dinner, I want to have a salad w/good fat dressing (low insulin producing) with my protien.
If it's not recommended, then what kind of meal is a P+F meal?
At this point, it’s time to add a few caveats to the original plan; upgrades, if you will. In the original articles I suggested minimizing C intake during P+F meals and minimizing F intake with P+C meals as an easy way to avoid the dreaded high glucose, insulin, and fat cocktail. However, this isn’t the only way to avoid this combo. Here are a few "rule breakers" which allow you to eat some types of C with your P+F meals:
1) Veggies, despite being carbohydrate, won't destroy your well-planned P+F meals. Vegetables are very low on the glycemic scale and won't promote a large insulin response. In fact, rather than just being "okay" during P+F meals, I suggest that they're essential as they're rich in micronutrients and can balance out the net acidity inherent in a high protein meal. (20, 25) For this reason, veggies should be ingested just about every meal.
2) Very low glycemic carbohydrates also can be ingested during P+F meals. Of course, I’ve written before about some low GI foods that actually provoke a big insulin response, so not all low GI foods are acceptable when combined with P+F meals. (11) As a result, I typically reserve veggies, fruits, and beans as "Massive Eating Approved" during P+F meals.
However, even with these foods, don’t go overboard. The insulin response to a meal is dependent on both the type and the amount of total carbohydrate. (18) Therefore some veggies and one piece of fruit might be occasionally okay during a P+F meal, but lots of veggies and three apples? Not so okay."
quote:Originally posted by Canadian_Bacon: fat gets stored just fine w/o insulin so the whole P+C and P+F thing is anicdotal.
VERY true. There are so many flaws in his theories plus insulin is not the primary cause of fat storage. [/quote]I used to follow Berardi reccommendations in regards to meal combos. But for the last 3 weeks I have stopped and have noticed my best gains. I now eat balanced meals with the exception of pre/pwo. For me, it was difficult to bulk while limiting your self to p+c, p+f meals combos. Just my 2cents.
Good to see others thoughts on this matter. I am pleased to hear that as long as I am eating good clean balanced meals I don't have to pay much mind to P+C and P+F.
I don't try to make my meals like that, it just happens. Since you are allowed to have fruits and veggies with meals containing fats - and of course protein - and since most of my carbs come from fruits and vegetables, they end up pretty much within the guidelines. If I eat other kinds of carbs its oatmeal or wholegrain bread, but since those are my preWO or PPWO meals I don't add fat with them anyway.
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And major action will certainly make you feel a bit uncomfortable, which is absolutely fine. You've gotta get excited about feeling uncomfortable, you've gotta love feeling slightly uncomfortable, because you know that you're stepping outside the boundaries that you used to create.
Zach Even-Esh
I've made some huge mistakes, but they were necessary, because without them I wouldn't have learned anything.
-Dave Tate
I was able to bulk very easily on Massive Eating. I got a lot of the carbs from beans, peas (like in split pea soup), lentils, squash/pumpkin, etc.
I think Johnka's great and recent bulking success was Massive Eating all the way, with very little fat added.
But, Massive Eating was a bit much, at times. On days when I made or bought all of my meals, I had no problem. But, it was difficult to work in family meals. It caused a lot of stress on my part.
When I was doing TAP, family meals were far easier, as my wife cooks using all the right stuff and I could just adjust my ratios of the foods.
So, now while I'm cutting, I pretty much stick to Adam's Diet, but still counting calories (I know that's not really the diet, but it won't work for me if I don't count calories). That way, I can still go with the flow if I get saddled with a meal that's got some pasta or tortillas every once in a while.
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